Heating my home

[RF Overlord]

Originally Posted By: ram_man
I even have the last bill from them that says a zero balance.
I'm confused.

You say you have a bill FROM THEM saying you don't owe them any money, but they shut off your gas because they claim you DO owe them money?

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: RF Overlord
Originally Posted By: ram_man
I even have the last bill from them that says a zero balance.
I'm confused.

You say you have a bill FROM THEM saying you don't owe them any money, but they shut off your gas because they claim you DO owe them money?


But they are "crooked as they come", remember?

 

[OneEyeJack]

Out here in California there is a process to execute before a utility can cut service. They always err in favor of the customer until the customer can dispute the claim or bill.

If there is a lack of trust on your part you might consider paying by check with a detailed memo on each check including meter readings to help establish a pattern of use.

About 20 years ago there was a billing problem with a neighbor. Their defense was that their home could not physically accept the volume of natural gas that was on the string of bills that winter with the connection that existed. It was a successful argument because it was not too complicated and could be understood by everyone concerned, even public officials.

Here the big problem with utilities besides the current cost per unit is that when you are asked to conserve and enough people do just that, your unit cost goes up to make up for lost revenue. They are only required to deliver the service. There is no requirement to be efficient because the customers are required to make up any deficits. It's kind of like politicians and the government. Their management policies and methods are interchangeable.

 

[Andrew1972]

Originally Posted By: ram_man
I pay with a debit card over the phone . I have every statement and every confirmation number and they still dispute it.


Have you tried paying via paper check with account # in line? Amazing amount of proof of payment generated when you go online or request copy from local bank of paid out check.

 

[Johnny2Bad]

I cut off my Natural Gas three years ago and switched to Electric. I don't regret it, the home is cleaner (no forced air) and the quality of heat is fine. It's probably worth noting that I live in a climate with probably the second-highest usage of winter heat in North America (Arctic would be higher; while -40F/C nights are not the norm the possibility exists, and I can expect perhaps 30 days worth of -30 and lower in the winter heating season).

Electric heaters are very efficient (95% typical); the reason Electric costs more overall for the same BTU's is not the heater itself, it's the efficiency of the Power Plant which uses the same fuel (basically) as your Natural Gas in-home heater to generate electricity at roughly 65% efficiency. Which means you pay more per BTU when it's all said and done.

However, take a careful and close look at your Natural Gas bill. Look for how much gas you use (seems obvious, but ... ) versus all the other charges that piggyback on top of it.

My demand charge (everything except the actual gas consumption) was about 55% of my total bill. In other words, I can afford to eat the less efficient per BTU cost of electric and save about 15% when it comes to adding up the dollar cost of my heating season.

No regrets; my electric bill went up by roughly 100% but after taking away the full Natural Gas bill, it's not costing me anything extra in winter and it saves me considerable money when the heating season ends and my effective heat bill goes to zero (remember, I'd be paying demand charges for the summer months); now I pay nothing extra ... my electric demand charge existed before.

Look at the whole picture, you may be surprised.

Really, if you have a Natural Gas use but don't go "all-in" (stove, water heater, clothes dryer, home heating, barbecue, etc) you probably aren't taking advantage of the lower cost vs electricity.

 

[rshaw125]

The natural gas company here, PSNC, just sent me a letter stating that they are lowering rates. I would have to be at least 2 months behind before they turned the service off.

 

[ram_man]

Originally Posted By: RF Overlord
Originally Posted By: ram_man
I even have the last bill from them that says a zero balance.
I'm confused.

You say you have a bill FROM THEM saying you don't owe them any money, but they shut off your gas because they claim you DO owe them money?


I turn it off at the end of March. I only have an active account when I call them to turn it back till when I turn it off. I don't pay for it 12 months I only activate it during the winter. So I paid the last bill and the disconnect fee in March they came out turned it off I then called after that to have them send me a bill that said I was current and at zero. They did that and now they say that's wrong. I specifically asked for a bill that said zero balance because the very thing happened last year and last year I sucked it up and paid it anyway. I'm not doing it again. I don't enjoyed being screwed. I could pay with checks but I don't because the bank charges for them and the whole world is electronic I figured a debit card was plenty good , and it seems to work for everyone else and every other company! Not these people!

 

[surfstar]

^that would [censored] me the [censored] off! (sorry about giving you [censored] earlier)

It sounds like you've done your due diligence and have the evidence for your case. I think you need to escalate the issue, try getting ahold of a supervisor or someone even higher up. Its funny, but facebook and twitter shaming the company can actually quickly correct situations like this.

 

[RoadRaceJosh]

Gather your evidence and call the appropriate government entities such as the utilities board and attorney general.

 

[Andrew1972]

Is the connect/disconnect fee less then what it actually costs to maintain a non-used service over the non-heating months. I would think no.

 

[eljefino]

Are you obligated to keep gas service accounts open continuously?

 

[surfstar]

Our Gas Co has a minimum service fee that is tacked on basically, when you have low use. But when I turn off the heater, it takes one month lag time, then the bill goes to 0 all summer. We can keep the service/account active and not get penalized. Ram_Man - see if they do this where you live.

Still haven't lit the pilot for the winter yet

 

[ram_man]

Yea they do that. But you can disconnect it and as long as you turn it on in less than 6 months it's free if you wait longer it's a 60 dollar connect fee. Which the 60 dollar fee is cheaper than paying for it and not using it .

 

[Bladecutter]

Originally Posted By: ram_man

I turn it off at the end of March. I only have an active account when I call them to turn it back till when I turn it off. I don't pay for it 12 months I only activate it during the winter. So I paid the last bill and the disconnect fee in March they came out turned it off I then called after that to have them send me a bill that said I was current and at zero. They did that and now they say that's wrong. I specifically asked for a bill that said zero balance because the very thing happened last year and last year I sucked it up and paid it anyway. I'm not doing it again. I don't enjoyed being screwed. I could pay with checks but I don't because the bank charges for them and the whole world is electronic I figured a debit card was plenty good , and it seems to work for everyone else and every other company! Not these people!


Hunt down the thread you created earlier this year, and pull up the post in it where I gave you the contact info for your state's regulating commissioner. Contact them.

BC.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: ram_man
I pay with a debit card over the phone . I have every statement and every confirmation number and they still dispute it.
My water heater is electric. THE ONLY THING THATS GAS IS THE HEAT IN THE HOUSE. Just want that to be clear. My house is very well insulated.
I am working with them trying to get it fixed but I am not paying money I'll never get back that I don't owe. I even have the last bill from them that says a zero balance. They do this to a lot of folks not just me.


Get a statement from your bank showing that you paid the bill, and call the state Attorney General.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: madRiver
Make sure you use checks with account # related to bill in memo as you pay them. Very hard for them to dispute.

Your thinking may be your stumbling block. The gas company is not crooked but more likely has incompetencies potentially in the payment method you choose. Typically there is a state board where you can voice your dispute(have clear proof) that overseas the utilities.
That's true, many states have their "Public Utilities Commission" provide a service to deal with bill complaints.



+1.

There are a few steps to be taken here.

#1 is to get official paper statements from the bank showing who the bill was paid to and the confirmation number and date.

#2 is to go to the utility's local office and talk to the accounts receivable person about the noted payments and what is owed, with the bank info in hand to prove them otherwise.

#3 if there is no useful data and satisfaction, is to file a police report. if the OP is 100% definite that the money went to the gas company, then the money is stolen and should be reported as such.

#4 as someone at the gas company has stolen OP's money, and OP has to pay for electric heat to keep the house warm, I would immediately determine the amount of electric used to date due to this, and also an anticipated amount to get through the winter. I would then sue the gas company in small claims court for the losses incurred due to their negligence. I assume it will only be a few thousand dollars.

#5 as there re small children in the home, Id go to the local news station to start an investigation how the crooked gas company is stealing payments made with debit cards, and how it is effecting a young family with small children this holiday season. Because of the small children, the news stations will eat it up as it should sell lots of advertising for them.

Along these course of events, something should clear up and go back to business as usual. All are DIY feats.

 

[Cujet]

3410 BTU per KWH.
And, 1 KWH is around 14 cents here.
$1 gets you about 24,000 BTU with the local electric rate.

Electric heating is 100% efficient, in other words, all the power your heater uses gets turned into heat. But, that power is expensive.

Natural gas is generally about 1/4 the price per BTU.

 

[Andrew1972]

I think ram_man either has
1) incredibly bad luck
2) cannot live in the real world and thinks he is always right
3) crazy
4) drama queen

I recall posts about:
1) "defective" furniture sold and steps to resolve
2) "lemon" Ford Focus eventually returned
3) gas company woes over "bills paid"
4) work drama

How is this all possible?

 

[JustinH]

I've never had a problem with any utility ever in my life.

Been using online bill pay for years, my bank cuts the utility a check and they post it to my account.

That is how the world goes 'round.

Heating your house with space heaters is dangerous, dumb, and expensive.

People die from these space heaters catching drapes on fire, etc.

 

[Wolf359]

Oh in case it hasn't been said yet, just pay your bills deadbeat.

Rather silly to risk burning the house down because of some silly argument with the local utility. You pay the bill and then fight it with the utility commission as mentioned earlier. If you lose, it will still be cheaper than heating the house with electricity and you don't risk burning the house down. Sometimes you just need to sit down and think things through.