HDEO with a GTL base oil?

[johnmyster]

It's interesting in this same post complaining about Rotella marketing, appears this picture. Isn't this HPL marketing? Does this test actually mean anything in the real world?

I wonder how much Rotella branded marketing is done per gallon of Rotella sold. Let's call that the "specific marketing" amount.

I'm sure it's less than Amsoil's specific marketing amount.

I'll go hide under a rock now, but I'm taking my milk frother with me.

 

[4WD]

I was in denial for awhile about Rotella being the true bare-minimum-spec swill that is is. I mean, it's so popular, how can it be lame?

But when I stepped back and considered the economics of just the massive amounts of lube the fleets buy, and how much reward there is to SOPUS to keep Rotella as cheap as possible, it made a lot more sense.


The same cost pressures that race to the bottom are even more prevalent in a mostly-commercial market with heavy pressure to commoditize oils down to whatever meets the spec. When you go through oil by the 975L tote, and see that Rotella is significantly cheaper than Delvac or Delo, you can see why Shell puts so much into marketing.

Delvac 1 in a 5 gallon bucket can be had for $170
T6 in the same 5 gallon bucket is $152 from the same vendor.

Delvac is categorically superior, but it costs a little more. That's just enough to lose out on big buys for fleets and such.

Look who your sidekicks at CAT do business with … Ain’t Brotella …

 

[Hohn]

Look who your sidekicks at CAT do business with … Ain’t Brotella …

I've posted the story elsewhere, but by far the most impressive post-test teardown I've ever seen was an QSK60 run on Delvac 1. It was burning GTL fuel also and after a whopping 1.6 million gallons of fuel burn, it looked immaculate. The fuel pump looked new. The injectors looked nearly new.

That one teardown probably converted many HHP Cummins guys into Delvac 1 users.

 

[cptbarkey]

The last time I suggested Rotella on this forum, I felt like everyone was chasing me with spears and knives. So I appreciate your braveness typing that taboo word, even though that is a great suggestion here

There is really just a few very loud voices here that do not like Rotella. The same ones repeat the nonsense every chance they can. I could care less myself, if its cheap via rebate i'm buying it.

 

[Plumb Bob]

Rotella is as good as what the back label says it is. And your diesel will last a million miles while running it.

 

[Bighorn2500]

Can’t complain about the T6, when’s it’s on sale or rebate I grab some for the truck & tractor. When Valvoline, Delo, or Mobil HDEO products are on sale or rebate I grab those as well.

Its like ice cream, some people like vanilla & some people don’t. Others have to have chocolate or Superman flavor

 

[johnmyster]

That one teardown probably converted many HHP Cummins guys into Delvac 1 users.

If only it was the same stuff that is currently being sold as "Delvac 1 ESP." Or is it?

Else, it's unobtanium for us mere mortals.

 

[Hohn]

If only it was the same stuff that is currently being sold as "Delvac 1 ESP." Or is it?

Else, it's unobtanium for us mere mortals.

This would have been the CI-4+ formula since Tier 4 wasn’t a thing yet off-highway and no aftertreatment was installed, so no SAPS limits.

So, different formula from now for sure. But probably still an excellent oil.

 

[altaylar]

It's interesting in this same post complaining about Rotella marketing, appears this picture. Isn't this HPL marketing? Does this test actually mean anything in the real world?

I highly doubt that this test means too much. I think Rotella is a fantastic value option, but its not hard to imagine HPL/Redline/Amsoil kinda oil would outperform it at many fronts, potentially including foaming. But there is a significant price difference, and do you really need that additional stuff?

 

[4WD]

Me too. My experienced Rotella using friends know to tilt the funnel and pour slowly to prevent excessive head.

A frosted funnel seems to help

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Millions & millions of miles using CK-4 Rotella w/no catastrophic camshaft failures...
but, but LS Jr says don't use it for break-in = doesn't meet API Aeration specs apparently.

You apparently went full-on ostrich for the entire Rotella T6 vs 3.0 EcoDiesel debacle, didn’t you?

 

[johnmyster]

You apparently went full-on ostrich for the entire Rotella T6 vs 3.0 EcoDiesel debacle, didn’t you?

There are two kinds of people. Those that blame an engine's issues on poor engine design, and those that blame it on the motor oil.

Let's take the worst motor ever built, find a lube that barely manages to keep it together through warranty. I don't care why that particular engine does or doesn't implode. The oil that barely keeps that mess together, that's the oil I want to run in all my vehicles. How short-sighted can we get?

 

[4WD]

I would be surprised if there is. Maybe in a 10w30. The issue here is GTL only comes in low viscosities. Make a 5W-40 or 15w40 would require a lot of VII.

Rotella is hated because it sucks. A 15w40 with 12% Noack is atrocious. It also does poorly in RPVOT and foams like a rabid dog.

Wish I would of kept it (was a small print fishing magazine) - but during a time when fishermen went full bro league “saving money” with Rotella (probably fine for 90’s running crab traps) - a dealership put it in one 250 motor and the OEM (NMMA) oil it the other. After a long run offshore and back - they pulled dipsticks - care to guess which had the foam corn dog.
The OEM oil had no air whatsoever …

 

[Jetronic]

I don't use Rotella, but have and still use dual rated oils. Foam isn't good, ever. with 50% gas mixed in the oil, the HTHS viscosity is effectively halved, and if there's oxygen in there it doesn't help with oxidation resistance either. So yes excessive foaming would make me look elsewhere.

Does adding a few drops of silicone oil reduce the foaming of T6?

 

[johnmyster]

Rotella is hated because it sucks. A 15w40 with 12% Noack is atrocious. It also does poorly in RPVOT and foams like a rabid dog.

Honest question but I don't see published noack for Chevron Delo or Mobil Extreme/ESP. So of the WM available HD swills, does Rotella really suck more than the alternatives?

Wish I would of kept it (was a small print fishing magazine) - but during a time when fishermen went full bro league “saving money” with Rotella (probably fine for 90’s running crab traps) - a dealership put it in one 250 motor and the OEM (NMMA) oil it the other. After a long run offshore and back - they pulled dipsticks - care to guess which had the foam corn dog.
The OEM oil had no air whatsoever …

A reference to a magazine article seems like the data could be dated. Are we sure Shell hasn't had the corporate fortitude to address any shortcomings in the evolution from CH-4 to CK-4? To go further down that rabbit hole, we know Rotella has more than one product line. I'm not putting T1 in my truck.

My father swore by GTX "turbo approved" and orange cans of consumer reports fame, but I'm pretty sure the products have changed in the 30 years since I remember pulling the engine cover on the old astro van.

 

[Zee09]

@KCJeep is the resident GTL expert

 

[4WD]

Honest question but I don't see published noack for Chevron Delo or Mobil Extreme/ESP. So of the WM available HD swills, does Rotella really suck more than the alternatives?


A reference to a magazine article seems like the data could be dated. Are we sure Shell hasn't had the corporate fortitude to address any shortcomings in the evolution from CH-4 to CK-4? To go further down that rabbit hole, we know Rotella has more than one product line. I'm not putting T1 in my truck.

My father swore by GTX "turbo approved" and orange cans of consumer reports fame, but I'm pretty sure the products have changed in the 30 years since I remember pulling the engine cover on the old astro van.

Yes, it could be - but there remains this - perhaps testosterone driven - habit of HDEO in things it’s not made for. Even Shell has said don’t …
People stating what a large engine can do on ANY oil does not relate to what all HDEO gets dumped in … (like a boat motor run WOT) …
If you just wanted a thicker oil - plenty choices …

 

[johnmyster]

Yes, it could be - but there remains this - perhaps testosterone driven - habit of HDEO in things it’s not made for. Even Shell has said don’t …
People stating what a large engine can do on ANY oil does not relate to what all HDEO gets dumped in … (like a boat motor run WOT) …
If you just wanted a thicker oil - plenty choices …

So it sounds like you're still trying to make the point that because Rotella sucks in the wrong application, it sucks universally...literally the joke of this entire thread. And no other HD oil would be susceptible to the same?

Let's all try to find the best HD oil for our trucks based on how it performs in the hydraulic system of a carnival ride?

 

[4WD]

So it sounds like you're still trying to make the point that because Rotella sucks in the wrong application, it sucks universally...literally the joke of this entire thread. And no other HD oil would be susceptible to the same?

Let's all try to find the best HD oil for our trucks based on how it performs in the hydraulic system of a carnival ride?

I have not chased it after getting out of fleet responsibility - but historically the Noack has been - (with EC30 blends - Delvac would not go down)
Delvac
Delo
Rotella
As for the “sounds like” - part of my job is human performance - and much of that is about choices … The Rotella brotherhood is real … Peer driven.
I live in a farm/ranch/oilfield region - and our Mobil 1 Express has a Rotella sign on the front of the building. He can’t talk them out of it - and said they change oil in Super Duty’s more often than his own 1500 that they are basically paying for.

Oil formulas are available for everything out there - so yeah, it’s partly about a brand and partly about a habit that is often defended by bad examples …

 

[JavierH19]

I fully understand the indisputable fact that rotella doesn't do good in the lab but in the real world I'm not seeing rotella be an issue. mechanical injection engines should be having issues with high foam rotella but they seemingly don't. Looking up heui injector issues with rotella on here and elsewhere yields nothing. There also doesn't seem to be a sludge issue with rotella either. They don't seem to have wear issues either. Still I won't be buying it for the time being but I'm not sure it's that big of an issue.