HDEO with a GTL base oil?

[gunnellett]

Are there readily available HDEO made from GTL?

I've seen a lot of discussion about the benefits of GTL based oils like PUP and QSUP and it made me wonder if there are any specific to diesels.

I apologize if there are multiple threads on this already, I tried the search function but kept running into the automotive oils like the ones I mentioned, nothing diesel specific.

Thanks.

 

[fantastic]

Rotella T6?

 

[altaylar]

Rotella T6?

The last time I suggested Rotella on this forum, I felt like everyone was chasing me with spears and knives. So I appreciate your braveness typing that taboo word, even though that is a great suggestion here

 

[MurkyAsparagus]

The last time I suggested Rotella on this forum, I felt like everyone was chasing me with spears and knives. So I appreciate your braveness typing that taboo word, even though that is a great suggestion here

I saw a lot of Rotella hate during my search for a jetski oil. Still don’t get the hate for it or whether it’s justified anymore. I’ve never had an issue with Rotella in any application I’ve used it in.

 

[RDY4WAR]

I would be surprised if there is. Maybe in a 10W-30. The issue here is GTL only comes in low viscosities. Make a 5W-40 or 15w40 would require a lot of VII.

Rotella is hated because it sucks. A 15w40 with 12% Noack is atrocious. It also does poorly in RPVOT and foams like a rabid dog.

 

[fantastic]

The last time I suggested Rotella on this forum, I felt like everyone was chasing me with spears and knives. So I appreciate your braveness typing that taboo word, even though that is a great suggestion here

I saw a lot of Rotella hate during my search for a jetski oil. Still don’t get the hate for it or whether it’s justified anymore. I’ve never had an issue with Rotella in any application I’ve used it in.

Some folks love spending your money by redirecting you to their "Favorites" at an elevated cost. Rotella serves a price point w/adequate performance characteristics that are API approved & meets OEM specifications. I ran almost 10k mile interval on my 6.0L a while back & had to add no oil as it stayed at the full mark.

 

[RDY4WAR]

Some folks love spending your money by redirecting you to their "Favorites" at an elevated cost. Rotella serves a price point w/adequate performance characteristics that are API approved & meets OEM specifications. I ran almost 10k mile interval on my 6.0L a while back & had to add no oil as it stayed at the full mark.

That's not it at all. If you want to talk cost, you get less value with Rotella. Shell spends $55-60 million/yr marketing Rotella. That cost is in the price you pay, and the actual product is the cheapest material in Shell's inventory. That aside though, I don't like oils that do this. T6 5W-40, producing 50-55 ml of foam when the CK-4 spec is <20 ml. Yet, there's people here who turn a blind eye to this. They tend to be the same ones who refuse to purchase anything that doesn't have a starburst. Apparently actually passing said standard isn't important.

 

[fantastic]

T6 5W-40, producing 50-55 ml of foam when the CK-4 spec is <20 ml. Yet, there's people here who turn a blind eye to this. They tend to be the same ones who refuse to purchase anything that doesn't have a starburst. Apparently actually passing said standard isn't important.

View attachment 297007

You're really claiming Shell didn't & can't pass an aeration test based on HPL's testing, right? Did the engineers at Shell, API, etc just ignore the test results & give them a logo anyways?

Aeration pass or fail for API CK-4 is measured by ASTM D8047 standard. Was that standard used to lead you to your conclusion? This test involves at least 50 hours on a 13L Caterpillar engine.

 

[kschachn]

Are there readily available HDEO made from GTL?

I've seen a lot of discussion about the benefits of GTL based oils like PUP and QSUP and it made me wonder if there are any specific to diesels.

I apologize if there are multiple threads on this already, I tried the search function but kept running into the automotive oils like the ones I mentioned, nothing diesel specific.

Thanks.

Can you explain why this is important to you? There are other hydrocracked Group III base stocks that have comparable saturates and viscosity index as a GTL base. Not saying it isn't good but it's not magical and base stock alone does not define a finished product.

 

[johnmyster]

I ran almost 10k mile interval on my 6.0L a while back & had to add no oil as it stayed at the full mark.

Achieving a zero sum of oil consumption and fuel dilution is an aspirational goal for many.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

You're really claiming Shell didn't & can't pass an aeration test based on HPL's testing, right? Did the engineers at Shell, API, etc just ignore the test results & give them a logo anyways?

Aeration pass or fail for API CK-4 is measured by ASTM D8047 standard. Was that standard used to lead you to your conclusion? This test involves at least 50 hours on a 13L Caterpillar engine.

From 2017....

Quote posted on FB, Lake Speed Jr, Driven Oil:

Just an FYI, we tested the new formula Rotella (CK-4 instead of the old CJ-4). Even with a bottle of Comp 159 Break-In additive, it did not end well. Granted, our break-in test is pretty tough - 145 lbs seat pressure, 350 open. Still, we broke-in 6 cams with 4 different break-in oils without any issues before the new Rotella + 159 killed a cam. This post is just an FYI to anyone using Diesel oils for break-in, etc...

 

[travis8352]

Delvac 1 ESP 5w40 is mostly GTL based on MSDS

 

[4WD]

The last time I suggested Rotella on this forum, I felt like everyone was chasing me with spears and knives. So I appreciate your braveness typing that taboo word, even though that is a great suggestion here

Rotella buyer crossing the BITOG swamp:

 

[johnmyster]

You're really claiming Shell didn't & can't pass an aeration test based on HPL's testing, right? Did the engineers at Shell, API, etc just ignore the test results & give them a logo anyways?

Aeration pass or fail for API CK-4 is measured by ASTM D8047 standard. Was that standard used to lead you to your conclusion? This test involves at least 50 hours on a 13L Caterpillar engine.

From 2017....

Quote posted on FB, Lake Speed Jr, Driven Oil:

Just an FYI, we tested the new formula Rotella (CK-4 instead of the old CJ-4). Even with a bottle of Comp 159 Break-In additive, it did not end well. Granted, our break-in test is pretty tough - 145 lbs seat pressure, 350 open. Still, we broke-in 6 cams with 4 different break-in oils without any issues before the new Rotella + 159 killed a cam. This post is just an FYI to anyone using Diesel oils for break-in, etc...

Typical Rotella bash script be like:

A: Did I hear Rotella? Because of this picture of foam. Rotella bad.
B: From a boutique lab using smoothie wisk? I don't have smoothie wisks in my engine. (Doesn't meet ASTM standard of the test.)
A: (Changes subject.) But LSJ says it isn't a good break-in oil and I don't like how much they spend on marketing.
B: I've honestly never seen a Rotella advertisement on TV, print, or facebook doom scrolls.
A: But marketing. (Changes subject). It might foam in a 7000 rpm subaru sti. See this beaker photo?
B: It isn't meant to go in a 7000 rpm subaru. My diesel cruises at 1600 rpm.
A: But LSJ said break in.
B: Not using it for break in.

 

[Glenda W.]

C: Rotella Bro feelings hurt, blame boutique

 

[johnmyster]

C: Rotella Bro feelings hurt, blame boutique

I mean, I'm not using Rotella but I'm still friends with people that are.

 

[Glenda W.]

I mean, I'm not using Rotella but I'm still friends with people that are.

Me too. My experienced Rotella using friends know to tilt the funnel and pour slowly to prevent excessive head.

 

[Hohn]

I was in denial for awhile about Rotella being the true bare-minimum-spec swill that is is. I mean, it's so popular, how can it be lame?

But when I stepped back and considered the economics of just the massive amounts of lube the fleets buy, and how much reward there is to SOPUS to keep Rotella as cheap as possible, it made a lot more sense.


The same cost pressures that race to the bottom are even more prevalent in a mostly-commercial market with heavy pressure to commoditize oils down to whatever meets the spec. When you go through oil by the 975L tote, and see that Rotella is significantly cheaper than Delvac or Delo, you can see why Shell puts so much into marketing.

Delvac 1 in a 5 gallon bucket can be had for $170
T6 in the same 5 gallon bucket is $152 from the same vendor.

Delvac is categorically superior, but it costs a little more. That's just enough to lose out on big buys for fleets and such.

 

[fantastic]

From 2017....

Millions & millions of miles using CK-4 Rotella w/no catastrophic camshaft failures...
but, but LS Jr says don't use it for break-in = doesn't meet API Aeration specs apparently.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

That's not it at all. If you want to talk cost, you get less value with Rotella. Shell spends $55-60 million/yr marketing Rotella. That cost is in the price you pay, and the actual product is the cheapest material in Shell's inventory. That aside though, I don't like oils that do this. T6 5W-40, producing 50-55 ml of foam when the CK-4 spec is <20 ml. Yet, there's people here who turn a blind eye to this. They tend to be the same ones who refuse to purchase anything that doesn't have a starburst. Apparently actually passing said standard isn't important.

View attachment 297007

It's interesting in this same post complaining about Rotella marketing, appears this picture. Isn't this HPL marketing? Does this test actually mean anything in the real world?