Hard working 3.5EB 2017 f150

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I noticed you have a pic of a Kubota tractor and trailer hooked to the truck
Very little squat in the rear of the truck
Have you added anything to the rear suspension to help ?


My grave service guys have the same tractor and the pull it with a Ram 4500 Cummins Diesel
 
Originally Posted by Farnsworth
Thermostats only open and stay open, don't add to the cooling. Factory temp is best. Everything is calibrated to that. Short trips with lower temp thermostats is bad. Maybe ford makes a higher flow or heavy duty thermo but since you already did the radiator upgrade IMO go back to OE temp. The flow is the same at the higher temps.


I do understand how thermostats work and it depends on how you want to define "add cooling". I can define it as it added cooling by keeping the engine running much cooler which is a benefit in my application. I can also say that it added cooling by giving me more cushion when at the bottom of a mountain. I have had the truck go into limp mode for getting to 245° and that's no fun. It's more difficult to achieve that higher temperature when starting out much cooler.

As far as factory temp being best, I have to ask who is that best for? By beef with the OE stat is that it first cracks at 195° and then takes until 217 to fully open. When towing with the stock set up water temp would easily hit 240° and it would take hardly nothing at all to keep it over 230°. I didn't like that at all. Oil temp was higher for sure and suffering but that is just an educated guess because I don't have a way to monitor oil temperature.

I agree that I wouldn't mind finding a stock temp thermostat that didn't have such a wide range. But I don't agree with Ford on this set up. Their goal is much different than mine. They have emission standards, fuel economy numbers and probably some other things they are trying to achieve where is I have a company fuel card and I want maximum engine life. After having this engine apart it was clear to me that I have done no harm and even my buddy at RMB motorworks was very impressed with this engine and he's torn apart literally thousands of these 3.5 eco-boost engines. If I lived above the Mason-Dixon line somewhere where it got much colder I would definitely be looking for a warmer thermostat but even today in Alabama it was over 50°.
 
Originally Posted by super20dan
if you ask me you are asking too much from that truck/engine combo pulling that kind of load.


I'm not asking anymore than Ford allows in the owners manual. There may have been an occasion like a load of logs that I didn't scale it could've been overweight but it was only for a couple miles. As far as the majority of my miles pulling the company trailer or the SXSs across the country I'm well within the specs of this vehicle and it has done it for 100,000 miles so far. My previous two eco-boost motors were also treated the same way and they were company vehicles which were traded it 150,000 miles. The company has a different deal now where I own the truck but I'm compensated for it so this one I am looking to carry well beyond 150,000 miles.
 
Originally Posted by R1jake
I wonder if that obd fusion app would support anything on my 94 E150? I'd love to be able to see my tranny temp but would say being obd1 probably wouldn't be able to view much.


You can send the creators of the app a message and ask them if they have any support for that vehicle or that OBD1. Another cool thing about the app is you can read and clear diagnostic trouble codes. And it is not married to one vehicle so you can test it on anything.
 
Originally Posted by kstanf150
I noticed you have a pic of a Kubota tractor and trailer hooked to the truck
Very little squat in the rear of the truck
Have you added anything to the rear suspension to help ?


My grave service guys have the same tractor and the pull it with a Ram 4500 Cummins Diesel


According to the owners manual of the tractor, front loader and backhoe attachments they all add up to approximately 7500 pounds and that includes water in the tires. My buddy has a loadcell that we scaled the tongue weight with and I marked the trailer Where are the tractor tires go. So I am only at about 1200 pounds of tongue weight. That's the only load I have preplanned, I have not done that for caring the ATVs.

I have an Auto-Spring vehicle specific rear leaf and bags that I rarely inflate beyond 10-15psi. Tires are set at 55psi front and 45 rear.
 
I'm just curious as I proceed with doing some UOA that some of you guys that have been doing this longer than me will be able to look at the paper and tell me if I am doing harm to the oil by not letting it get over 212° as often as stock. I have speculated about this for quite some time but I really just wanted to know the truth and ask the experts here to examine the reports as we continue.

I will also be very interested to hear everyone's thoughts on grade and brand of oil because that is another field that I have very limited experience in. The only thing I have been doing is try to use SN plus oil because I did read that it was better for turbo charged engines. And after my first report I am glad that I am using the 40 weight because it looks to be degraded much lower. The Castrol edge that I am using is not SN plus but maybe there is an oil that would be recommended?
 
A friend has a 2012 F150 with the 3.5 EB and is a contractor. He is always towing a tandem trailer with tools and other equipment. He now has 145K on the truck and the engine has been flawless to date. He says he has his oil changed at his local Ford dealer and they use MC 5-30 with little oil consumption. I believe his OCI is about like yours. Thanks for the pictures. Welcome to BITOG. Oh, what is your ATF change interval? And how has the trans held up?
welcome2.gif
 
Originally Posted by tig1
A friend has a 2012 F150 with the 3.5 EB and is a contractor. He is always towing a tandem trailer with tools and other equipment. He now has 145K on the truck and the engine has been flawless to date. He says he has his oil changed at his local Ford dealer and they use MC 5-30 with little oil consumption. I believe his OCI is about like yours. Thanks for the pictures. Welcome to BITOG. Oh, what is your ATF change interval? And how has the trans held up?
welcome2.gif



Thank you for the welcome sir. These engines have some issues in their history but I do like them. Congrats to your friend, I believe these engines live longer with a moderate work load vs strict easy driving.

I change trans oil at 30k, that's also when I do spark plugs. No trans problems yet. Not leaks or noises yet. The previous model 6 speed was just as good too. Not saying this is the best way or only way.....it works for me. My father never touches the transmission but he always trades around 70k miles too.

I used MC 5-30 blend ONLY on my previous two EB3.5 trucks....never an issue. I believe the most important thing is the OCI.

Trans oil is super easy to drain with a Harbor Freight oil evacuator ($30) and 9 new quarts of oil. The first change at 30k miles i did drop the pan and change filter. I haven't decided if I'll do that again or not.
 
Originally Posted by Joeymt3
The lift is surprisingly affordable. I picked it up new in Atlanta from Greg Smith equipment for $1495. I've had it since 2013 with zero issues. It's definitely not one of the nice commercial grade models that cost more than twice as much but it's good for a home gamer like myself.



indeed you can get some nice lifts for not a lot of money.



I told my younger brother when he builds his new garage that if he puts a high enough ceiling in it, I'll buy a lift for it.
 
I don't think I put up a picture of the second analysis that I received on 8th of January. The only thing I changed was about halfway through the interval I changed the thermostat from a 170 to a 180. I was hoping to have a positive effect on the amount of fuel in the oil. My next oil change interval will tell me how the idle time affects that as I have greatly reduce the amount of time I am idling or using remote start to warm up the vehicle.
 
Have you looked at the Forscan App and an ELM327 adapter? I changed my 8" dash gauges on my 2015 so the water temp and tranny temp actually give a digital readout. You can customize a lot of other things too, like disabling the horn honk when you leave the truck running and the key fob in your pocket or even the seatbelt reminder.


My 6R80 trans always runs aournd 200 even unloaded. I'm going to install this soon
https://globaltransmissionparts.com/ford-6r60-6r75-6r80-sure-cool-thermal-control-bypass-valve

Also talk to your transmission guy about a Sonnax zip kit. Its not a shift kit but helps restore pressure loss on a high mileage transmission

https://www.sonnax.com/parts/3052-zip-kit
 
Welcome to Bitog Joey! I noticed the engine oil you are using is a high calcium, low magnesium formula which is not supposed to be TGDI friendly. Just wondering why you are using it.You might want to look at another oil like QSUD 5w30 which is on the thicker side of a 30 and probably more friendly to an Ecoboost's needs. Also in regards to fuel dilution levels you may want to go with another lab. Blackstone apparently is not very precise at reporting FD. Good luck to you and your hard working truck.
 
Originally Posted by JustChuck
Have you looked at the Forscan App and an ELM327 adapter? I changed my 8" dash gauges on my 2015 so the water temp and tranny temp actually give a digital readout. You can customize a lot of other things too, like disabling the horn honk when you leave the truck running and the key fob in your pocket or even the seatbelt reminder.


My 6R80 trans always runs aournd 200 even unloaded. I'm going to install this soon
https://globaltransmissionparts.com/ford-6r60-6r75-6r80-sure-cool-thermal-control-bypass-valve

Also talk to your transmission guy about a Sonnax zip kit. Its not a shift kit but helps restore pressure loss on a high mileage transmission

https://www.sonnax.com/parts/3052-zip-kit


JustChuck said:
Have you looked at the Forscan App and an ELM327 adapter? I changed my 8" dash gauges on my 2015 so the water temp and tranny temp actually give a digital readout. You can customize a lot of other things too, like disabling the horn honk when you leave the truck running and the key fob in your pocket or even the seatbelt reminder.

Thanks for the input. I have use forscan to disable a lot of the annoying sound and also to correct the speedometer. My truck is an XLT so I don't have the option of displaying the temperatures digitally like the lariat and above trucks.

Also on this truck compared to my previous truck with the 6 speed, this transmission runs cooler and there is nothing I would want to change about it. The 10 speed is an amazing transmission and the cooling package with the max tow is way better than what I had on my previous 6 speed truck.
 
Originally Posted by madeej11
Welcome to Bitog Joey! I noticed the engine oil you are using is a high calcium, low magnesium formula which is not supposed to be TGDI friendly. Just wondering why you are using it.You might want to look at another oil like QSUD 5w30 which is on the thicker side of a 30 and probably more friendly to an Ecoboost's needs. Also in regards to fuel dilution levels you may want to go with another lab. Blackstone apparently is not very precise at reporting FD. Good luck to you and your hard working truck.



Thank you for the input sir. You are talking about a whole lot of stuff that I don't know anything about. Where would I find more of these details you're speaking of?

I chose the 40 weight because My buddy at RMB motor Works suggested 40 weight for a truck that is tuned and hard-working. He actually recommended Amsoil signature. I was looking for an SN+ oil in a 40 weight locally but I have not found that. I did three cycles with the Castrol and now I'm doing three cycles with mobil one 0-40. I am taking the oil samples on the second or third cycle.

I'm troubled how Ford first spec'ed this motor with a 20 weight oil and then switched to a 30. I've been more comfortable with the 40 and not experienced any side effects. Hopefully it stays that way.

But I'm still interested in knowing the details behind the oil specs you mentioned above.
 
Originally Posted by Joeymt3
Originally Posted by madeej11
Welcome to Bitog Joey! I noticed the engine oil you are using is a high calcium, low magnesium formula which is not supposed to be TGDI friendly. Just wondering why you are using it.You might want to look at another oil like QSUD 5w30 which is on the thicker side of a 30 and probably more friendly to an Ecoboost's needs. Also in regards to fuel dilution levels you may want to go with another lab. Blackstone apparently is not very precise at reporting FD. Good luck to you and your hard working truck.



Thank you for the input sir. You are talking about a whole lot of stuff that I don't know anything about. Where would I find more of these details you're speaking of?

I chose the 40 weight because My buddy at RMB motor Works suggested 40 weight for a truck that is tuned and hard-working. He actually recommended Amsoil signature. I was looking for an SN+ oil in a 40 weight locally but I have not found that. I did three cycles with the Castrol and now I'm doing three cycles with mobil one 0-40. I am taking the oil samples on the second or third cycle.

I'm troubled how Ford first spec'ed this motor with a 20 weight oil and then switched to a 30. I've been more comfortable with the 40 and not experienced any side effects. Hopefully it stays that way.

But I'm still interested in knowing the details behind the oil specs you mentioned above.


He's referring to a few points. I'll see if I can help a bit here. When Turbo Gas Direct Injection (TGDI) engines were initially introduced, manufacturers quickly discovered that the engine would exhibit Low Speed Pre-Ignition (LSPI) and it was creating a situation that could damage the engine. After a fair amount of research they realized that a) different additives in oil (mainly calcium) were creating an environment that would promote LSPI and, b) they could reduce/eliminate LSPI by going to multiport fuel injection.

Calcium and Magnesium are commonly added to oils to help keep the engine clean, but at the same time too much calcium creates an environment for LSPI in TGDI engines. Once manufacturers realized this they reduced the amount of calcium used and increased the amounts of magnesium. If you have a look at a number of virgin oil analysis with SN-Plus rated oils, you'll see that they're very similar in the overall composition. Sure they'll vary a little bit here and a little bit there, but for the most part they all keep the calcium levels below 1400 ppm and have higher levels of magnesium.

The reference to Quaker State Ultimate Durability (QSUD) 5w30 being on the thicker side of a 30, is a reference to the fact that oils have a viscosity range that they can be in, and still be considered within grade. This is indicated by the cSt viscosity.

In your last oil analysis you can see the cSt viscosity range for the 5w40 is between 11.6-15.3. You can also see that the Castrol Edge 5w40 had fallen out of grade and was sitting at 10.xx. Essentially this means that your 5w40 had sheered down to a 5w30 grade oil. This is likely due to fuel dilution.

Since there is a grade range for oils you can have some oils on the thin end of the spectrum and some oils on the thick end of the spectrum. QSUD 5w30 is on the thicker end, while other oils such as Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 is on the thin end. Regardless of where they fall on the spectrum, they're both still considered 5w30. This has implications for the oil in TGDI engines because they tend to be hard on oil and can sheer them down a grade or so. No one can really predict exactly how much an oil will sheer down during use because it depends on a number of factors so some combat this by selecting oils on the thick end of the spectrum, or move up a viscosity grade altogether and let it sheer down.

When it comes to fuel dilution, Blackstone Labs does not have the equipment to be able to accurately measure the levels of fuel within your oil. They use a method that estimates the % of fuel dilution and many people here argue that it's not accurate. At all.
 
. [/quote]

He's referring to a few points. I'll see if I can help a bit here. When Turbo Gas Direct Injection (TGDI) engines were initially introduced, manufacturers quickly discovered that the engine would exhibit Low Speed Pre-Ignition (LSPI) and it was creating a situation that could damage the engine. After a fair amount of research they realized that a) different additives in oil (mainly calcium) were creating an environment that would promote LSPI and, b) they could reduce/eliminate LSPI by going to multiport fuel injection.

Calcium and Magnesium are commonly added to oils to help keep the engine clean, but at the same time too much calcium creates an environment for LSPI in TGDI engines. Once manufacturers realized this they reduced the amount of calcium used and increased the amounts of magnesium. If you have a look at a number of virgin oil analysis with SN-Plus rated oils, you'll see that they're very similar in the overall composition. Sure they'll vary a little bit here and a little bit there, but for the most part they all keep the calcium levels below 1400 ppm and have higher levels of magnesium.

The reference to Quaker State Ultimate Durability (QSUD) 5w30 being on the thicker side of a 30, is a reference to the fact that oils have a viscosity range that they can be in, and still be considered within grade. This is indicated by the cSt viscosity.

In your last oil analysis you can see the cSt viscosity range for the 5w40 is between 11.6-15.3. You can also see that the Castrol Edge 5w40 had fallen out of grade and was sitting at 10.xx. Essentially this means that your 5w40 had sheered down to a 5w30 grade oil. This is likely due to fuel dilution.

Since there is a grade range for oils you can have some oils on the thin end of the spectrum and some oils on the thick end of the spectrum. QSUD 5w30 is on the thicker end, while other oils such as Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 is on the thin end. Regardless of where they fall on the spectrum, they're both still considered 5w30. This has implications for the oil in TGDI engines because they tend to be hard on oil and can sheer them down a grade or so. No one can really predict exactly how much an oil will sheer down during use because it depends on a number of factors so some combat this by selecting oils on the thick end of the spectrum, or move up a viscosity grade altogether and let it sheer down.

When it comes to fuel dilution, Blackstone Labs does not have the equipment to be able to accurately measure the levels of fuel within your oil. They use a method that estimates the % of fuel dilution and many people here argue that it's not accurate. At all.[/quote]

Thank you for that good information. I will look into that oil. Also for now I will have to stick with Blackstone because I still have six more of their containers that I don't want to just throw away and be wasteful.

I'll be taking an oil sample right now with the mobile 0-40 oil and we will see how well it has done in this engine. I'm also changing the oil pan because I have that one year where Ford used plastic oil pans and it's leaking ...¡.

F1251504-ECAA-4A5D-99BB-0E3F7164CA82.webp
 
I realize this is an old thread, but WTH. Couple observations/remarks.
1) hope you will post UOA for your M1 0w40, or whatever you’re using these days. I’m definitely curious.
2) if I’m not mistaken, you have the gen2 EB motor, and too bad there still seems to be fuel dilution with that design, though maybe it’s effects are toned down (better timing chain?, better intake valve “self-cleaning”?)
3) warranty aside (wait, you don’t have a warranty at 100k miles), I see no real reason to buy a TYPICAL 5w30 only to watch it thin (shear or dilute) to 20 weight. Especially as a southerner...maybe for a Canadian, or Montana, Dakota, etc resident. Regarding Quaker State UD, no personal experience, but I’ve seen UOA’s where it sheared (or diluted) to 20 wt, just like the Pennz Plat that starts at lower viscosity. I don’t know, maybe it has a slight edge. Speaking of Edge, it may be my myopia, but Castrol Edge 5w30 might shear less than some Shell products (Pennzoil, Rotella, Quaker State). Amongst Shell, perhaps it’s Rotella Multi Vehicle would retain its viscosity better. Mobil 1 got a bad rap in the Subaru forums, but I think it did better than Pennz Plat in my car (also a turbo)
4) I’ll be out of warranty soon, so may venture beyond 5w30 SN myself. Also M1 has their ESP oils (in 0w30, 5w30, and 0w40, at least), and I saw some interesting UOA’s and comments on them...and other Low SAPs oils designed for Euro vehicles.
4) I have become obsessed with finding a good (yet affordable) synthetic oil for my 3.5EB, and I guess it’s been a bit frustrating to see these engines crush the typical 5w30 oils. I suppose it’s not the oil’s fault the engine is pumping gas into the sump somehow, but it wouldn’t hurt to use an oil that weathers it better (as your 5w40’s have). That said, I also seem obsessed with not using too thick an oil. Hence interest in 0w40’s. But, maybe a 5w40 ISN’T too thick if it’s shearing down to 10.96 or 9.93.
 
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