GT's Running Volvo thread. The 00 XC

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Originally Posted By: GearheadTool
Well....

We had a thought...

We KNOW Sam has NOT looked at the car yet. (It started for him, and he did all the oil changes for other cars that came in, etc.)

We were -considering- going down there and getting it, since he didn't DO anything to it yet. *Assuming it starts, etc.

I could change the spark plugs and maybe wires myself, and we suspect maybe the fuel filter is clogged (she thinks it was a fuel issue...)

Should we go ahead and try to get it out of there, before we are at Sam's mercy?

Or, just go down there and see what he is inclined to do, or what he thinks it is?


In a word? STOP.

Once again, you're planning an action without any understanding of the situation. It's not likely to be the plugs, and while I am certain that it needs plugs and a fuel filter, you're just throwing $$ at the problem when you've told us that $$ is the one thing you lack.

You need to actually have this diagnosed. Residual fuel pressure. Fuel pump relay. Vacuum leak. Cam position sensor. Crank angle sensor. All could be causal... The codes are there for a reason. To help you diagnose the problem. Stop clearing them and read them. Or let Sam read them.
 
Totally agree with what Astro just said.

Leave the car with the mechanic and have him properly diagnose the issue or issues. If the remediation of those issues are beyond your skill set, have the mechanic make the repair(s) necessary.

Prepare an "attack plan" of the most pressing or critical issues and work through those first. IMO, a non functioning vehicle is more pressing than the battery hold down that many here feel compelled to yip about.

As you work through that list, factor in maintenance issues such as wires/plugs. Do that as your budget allows.

And you have a scan tool. Use it for its intended purpose of obtaining codes. Codes are knowledge for a diagnostic purpose, that may ultimately help save you money and time. What good does simply erasing them do?
 
Thanks for that.

I assume the only reason you pick up on the fact I am a Brit is because you are of the opinion that non Americans have no right to offer opinions.

As far as it knowing the US car market?

It isn't rocket science. Simple supply and demand.

And unlike a lot of US made cars Volvos are complicated, maybe too complicated.

But thanks for you bigotry.

I will add you to the list of people that think spending somebody else's money on a car that will continue to cost the OP money.

Is there something wrong with giving out a no bull assessment of a situation?

I have advised previously.

Advice is fluid.

If the person giving it is genuine and a situation changes then advice changes.


Lets recap.

New rear brakes pads and the discs ?skimmed to save a few quid.

A good quick fix.

ABS module. Now fixed by GHT.

I think the oil has been changed?

Trans fluid has not been changed. I think GHT mentioned topping it up.

Now the car has running issues.

Are these simple or caused by ECU problems, as some have mentioned camshaft position sensor is likely.

But is it that?

What about the turbo?

GHT suspects it is sludged.

So sludge in a complicated turbo engine!

And this before we have to think about the cost of the cambelt.

I do love the personal attacks though.

Keep them coming my advice will not change.

There are plenty of broke optimists, but very few broke pessimists.

Remember these cars are fairly common in Europe.

They are expensive to run and service.

An example.

My Volvo is a simple V50. 2.0D. Basically a Ford Focus estate with different bodyshell and interior.

Quote for service at Volvo. £375.

Quote for same car at Ford. £215.

Same schedule, same filters, same engine.

That is the difference between a Volvo and a Ford in Europe.

I am trying to think.

But it does seem your issue is purely my country of origin.

I think that says more about you than me.



Glad you are on ignore.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder


Our doom and gloom Brit friend who talks like he knows the US market but does not is being too hard on you (or more accurately too hard on the car) (no need to reply Brit, you are are on ignore), but you need to really start listening (and availing yourself of) to the excellent advice given to you.


I don't think he's being doom and gloom at all quite frankly. He's being realistic.

If the OP was willing to do the other things you (and many others have advised) like going to a dedicated Volvo site, taking it to a good Volvo mechanic to get diagnosed and obtain a CLEAR picture of the TRUE condition of the car... Fantastic! but he obviously isn't, as the car is currently at a Mechanic who thinks changing the spark plugs is potentially going to fix this, which causes me to SERIOUSLY question their competence.

I have no doubt that the car is salvageable. But as Astro so eloquently pointed out with his
Originally Posted By: Astro14
GHT - you have got to stop operating in the "Fire!...uh, oh, uh, ready...um...aim" mode. Observe first, orient (do research), decide, then act.
the OP is not operating in a manner which will allow that to happen. It has been long enough, and he has been given enough chances to change the behaviour at this point that I think the people needing the reality check are those who encourage him to continue with this endeavour despite the fact that he does so without any sort of plan that would result in some form of resolve for this situation.

To be blunt, the car is not the problem. Our friend from abroad has not been shy in pointing that out. I don't think that should condemn him to being on anybody's ignore list.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder


Our doom and gloom Brit friend who talks like he knows the US market but does not is being too hard on you (or more accurately too hard on the car) (no need to reply Brit, you are are on ignore), but you need to really start listening (and availing yourself of) to the excellent advice given to you.


...

If the OP was willing to do the other things you (and many others have advised) like going to a dedicated Volvo site, taking it to a good Volvo mechanic to get diagnosed and obtain a CLEAR picture of the TRUE condition of the car... Fantastic! but he obviously isn't, as the car is currently at a Mechanic who thinks changing the spark plugs is potentially going to fix this, which causes me to SERIOUSLY question their competence.

I have no doubt that the car is salvageable. But as Astro so eloquently pointed out with his
Originally Posted By: Astro14
GHT - you have got to stop operating in the "Fire!...uh, oh, uh, ready...um...aim" mode. Observe first, orient (do research), decide, then act.
the OP is not operating in a manner which will allow that to happen. ...


I agree with that.

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
To be blunt, the car is not the problem. Our friend from abroad has not been shy in pointing that out. I don't think that should condemn him to being on anybody's ignore list.


Pointing that out is not what condemned him to my ignore list, what did that is his making statements about the cars worth based on his UK experience, without acknowledging that he may not know the market here in the US. He also condemned the car as a lost cause (that is the doom and gloom part) when it really is not in competent hands at least not until the TB breaks. I do not disagree with a good bit of what he says, but I disagree his assessment of the car and value.
 
Robert:

I think you and I are on the same page. What a car is worth is all relative to the buyer. Perhaps even if he (our British mate) lived here, that would be the "value" he would assign to this type of car
21.gif
One must consider that before simply writing off his opinion. I have friends like that and it certainly doesn't make their opinion, particularly if it is experienced-based, any less valuable despite it not aligning with my own.

The impression I get from his assessment is not that he condemns the car as much as he condemns the OP owning this particular car. And that I am in agreement with, considering how the situation has played out thus far. He would have been much better served with something like a Crown Vic with dirt cheap parts and far less to go wrong. And likely would have paid around the same amount for one.

My assessment is based on the earliest interactions that the OP has had with those knowledgeable on this car, on this board, and how the situation has played out from that point up until now where those people are no longer responding to his threads as he has not heeded their advice.

It seems to me that the OP lacks direction. But that lack of direction comes off as intentional, as advice has been dispensed as to what a proper course of action should be for this vehicle, advice that would allow for him to base a viable plan going forward with this car on, but instead he's going on about taking it to a mechanic who feels that changing the spark plugs is going to fix an intermittent no start condition. Who half-[censored]ed a brake job and who generally doesn't appear to be the most reputable of facilities. I think for those who have given the OP advice, this is frustrating.

I followed this situation with high hopes at the beginning. But as the situation unfolded and we got further along, my optimism waned and was replaced with the reality I've described above. I don't think we are going to be able to hope, wish and prey sense into the OP despite our best efforts to do so. That is the reality I've taken away from all of this.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Robert:

I think you and I are on the same page. What a car is worth is all relative to the buyer. Perhaps even if he (our British mate) lived here, that would be the "value" he would assign to this type of car
21.gif
One must consider that before simply writing off his opinion. I have friends like that and it certainly doesn't make their opinion, particularly if it is experienced-based, any less valuable despite it not aligning with my own.

The impression I get from his assessment is not that he condemns the car as much as he condemns the OP owning this particular car. And that I am in agreement with, considering how the situation has played out thus far. He would have been much better served with something like a Crown Vic with dirt cheap parts and far less to go wrong. And likely would have paid around the same amount for one.

My assessment is based on the earliest interactions that the OP has had with those knowledgeable on this car, on this board, and how the situation has played out from that point up until now where those people are no longer responding to his threads as he has not heeded their advice.

It seems to me that the OP lacks direction. But that lack of direction comes off as intentional, as advice has been dispensed as to what a proper course of action should be for this vehicle, advice that would allow for him to base a viable plan going forward with this car on, but instead he's going on about taking it to a mechanic who feels that changing the spark plugs is going to fix an intermittent no start condition. Who half-[censored]ed a brake job and who generally doesn't appear to be the most reputable of facilities. I think for those who have given the OP advice, this is frustrating.

I followed this situation with high hopes at the beginning. But as the situation unfolded and we got further along, my optimism waned and was replaced with the reality I've described above. I don't think we are going to be able to hope, wish and prey sense into the OP despite our best efforts to do so. That is the reality I've taken away from all of this.


The thing, OVERK1LL, is that.. I have limited resources. On top of these limited resources, as an aggravating factor, is that I *need* to keep this car running. Trust me, if I had the $$$ I would say "Sam, let us come get the car maybe Friday and DO THE TIMING BELT AND RELATED THINGS such as WP, coolant flush, etc.

However, we do not have that $$$.

The thing that leads me to keep posting as to:

1. What it is doing,
2. How it is going it,
3. WHEN it is doing it, and where...

... is that we ARE married to the car!!! Can do the Timing Belt next year, when money permits...

I really appreciate everyone's optimism. I really do. And I still have NO tools, and I have used ONE oil filter that a friendly board member whose initials match those of musical group Van Halen mailed out. But thinking that this is going to end in "doom and gloom".. We have a funky, hybrod approach to get this thing working.

I *almost* think that extreme temperature fluxuation, mixed with condensation on about 3 gallons of fuel and then it went up to almost 60 degrees Thanksgiving Day then dipped back down, then had 15 gallons COLD gasoline put on.. made the fuel pump not do its thing. Car got up on tow truck, started.. is alleged to have died? So.. Maybe.. JUST MAYBE.. if it runs, and keeps running, and has a Seafoam put in.. all that CONDENSATION can GET OUT, and then *MAYBE* we can check off things, from a RUNNING CAR??? ?? ?
 
GHT with all due respect, this car is not a car that somebody with extremely limited means should be owning. The reason is that the price of PROPER service to this car exceeds your limited budget. That is not a stab at you personally, but it is the reality of the situation.

The fact that you would get Sam to do the service if funds allowed, despite the fact that he's suggested plugs as a potential solution to your current no start problem speaks volumes as to your true understanding of all this.

This car could likely be traded, if it was running, in on a Crown Vic. Even trade. You'd have something reliable and inexpensive to own. That is the advice I give you now.

I don't think the Volvo doesn't have a future. I'm sure it does. But with your limited ability to commit to it financially, I don't think it has a future with you as the owner.
 
I'm tired of alot of this back and forth...

Let's get down to facts:

Originally Posted By: GearheadTool

I *almost* think that extreme temperature fluctuation, mixed with condensation on about 3 gallons of fuel and then it went up to almost 60 degrees Thanksgiving Day then dipped back down, then had 15 gallons COLD gasoline put on.. made the fuel pump not do its thing. Car got up on tow truck, started.. is alleged to have died? So.. Maybe.. JUST MAYBE.. if it runs, and keeps running, and has a Seafoam put in.. all that CONDENSATION can GET OUT, and then *MAYBE* we can check off things, from a RUNNING CAR??? ?? ?


Fact:

Do you realize how stupid this thought it?

Adding cold gasoline to the tank should NEVER cause a car to stop running.

If the pump is faulty, the pump is faulty. If it is faulty, it needs to be diagnosed as faulty, and replaced.

Others who are very familiar with the car have stated that there are common problems with the car that relate to fuel pump relays, fuel check valves, and position sensors that tells the ECU that the engine is spinning, and needs to inject fuel or spark the plugs at specific times.

What you need to do is either learn how to be logical, and work out the cause and effect of what the car is and is not doing, and how that relates to the parts, or get the car to a real shop with a mechanic that knows how to use logic to work through a diagnosis checklist.

So lets look at this for a couple of seconds, using logic, which you haven't done so far, and you have ignored from others.

What causes a car to not start, and stay running?

Lack of Fuel.
Lack of Air.
Lack of Ignition.
Lack of Compression.

So Lets start at the easiest part to check - the air filter.
Is it clean enough (ie, not as hard and solid as a chunk of concrete) to let air into the motor?

If its clean, lets check to see that the engine is sucking in air while the engine is cranking - With the air filter off the engine, hold your hand in front of the air intake, and have someone crank the engine. You should feel a sucking feeling. This feeling also helps to rule out a broken cam belt.

So, now you have confirmed the engine gets air into the combustion chamber (hopefully all of them).

Lets look at the ignition system, as this is the next easiest to diagnose.

Your car has ignition coil sticks.
You can remove one by simply unscrewing the hold down bolts, disconnecting the electrical connector, and pulling it up off the spark plug.

If you wanted to test spark, you could buy 1 extra spark plug, snap it into the ignition coil, hook up the connector, and crank the engine while the body of the plug is grounded. You could even use a jumper cable to ground the spark plug if there isn't a good ground point on top of the valve cover.

If you see frequent spark happening, then you can pretty much rule out the position sensors, and ECU issue. This would mean that you would have a fuel related problem.

However, if there is no spark, you would then have to troubleshoot further to see if one of the position sensors is the culprit, or if the ecu/wiring is the culprit.

Since a common issue with the car is the cam position sensor, I would recommend starting with that part. They are between $153 and $170 on rock auto. Yes, its expensive, but if it is what is wrong with your car, it won't start and stay running reliably without it replaced.

Now lets say the ignition system works fine, and we are now down to a fuel related problem. How do we diagnose that?

Lets start with something simple:

If you can find a connector to hook up a fuel pressure gauge on the car, then borrow one from your local auto parts store, and see if there's fuel pressure when the engine is cranking over. Typically, you need about 60 psi's for most fuel injection systems.

If you get no fuel pressure at all, then you need to determine if the fuel pump is the problem, or something that supplies electricity to the fuel pump (like the relay) that is causing the problem.

Usually you can jumper a battery directly to the fuel pump, or bypass the relay to see if the pump works. If you do that, and get pressure, then the relay is the issue. If you do that, and don't get pressure, then the pump is faulty.

There you go.
See how easy that was to give you a list of possibilities to work with?

Now do something useful with the information I just provided to you.

BC.
 
Originally Posted By: GearheadTool
I *almost* think that extreme temperature fluxuation, mixed with condensation on about 3 gallons of fuel and then it went up to almost 60 degrees Thanksgiving Day then dipped back down, then had 15 gallons COLD gasoline put on.. made the fuel pump not do its thing. Car got up on tow truck, started.. is alleged to have died? So.. Maybe.. JUST MAYBE.. if it runs, and keeps running, and has a Seafoam put in.. all that CONDENSATION can GET OUT, and then *MAYBE* we can check off things, from a RUNNING CAR??? ?? ?


I suppose is it by pure dumb luck I've managed to make it all these years without suffering from the dreaded "cold gas"?
 
I think Volvohead had it right, folks here are being
"played".
crazy.gif


There's nothing worse than a person who asks for help, receives expert answers and suggestions and then proceeds to IGNORE everything offered and has all the excuses for why they cannot follow the suggestions made.. That is the time to stop helping.

Then again "artists" are known for being flakes. I've known quite a few in my time and all of them were infuriatingly equipped with a "deaf ear" when having others tell them how to handle something.
It is like the purposely do the exact opposite of what was suggested.

On that note this will be my last post to this and his other thread.

I'm following Volvohead out the door.
crackmeup2.gif
50.gif
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Bladecutter
I'm tired of alot of this back and forth...

Let's get down to facts:

Originally Posted By: GearheadTool

I *almost* think that extreme temperature fluctuation, mixed with condensation on about 3 gallons of fuel and then it went up to almost 60 degrees Thanksgiving Day then dipped back down, then had 15 gallons COLD gasoline put on.. made the fuel pump not do its thing. Car got up on tow truck, started.. is alleged to have died? So.. Maybe.. JUST MAYBE.. if it runs, and keeps running, and has a Seafoam put in.. all that CONDENSATION can GET OUT, and then *MAYBE* we can check off things, from a RUNNING CAR??? ?? ?


Fact:

Do you realize how stupid this thought it?

Adding cold gasoline to the tank should NEVER cause a car to stop running.

If the pump is faulty, the pump is faulty. If it is faulty, it needs to be diagnosed as faulty, and replaced.

Others who are very familiar with the car have stated that there are common problems with the car that relate to fuel pump relays, fuel check valves, and position sensors that tells the ECU that the engine is spinning, and needs to inject fuel or spark the plugs at specific times.

What you need to do is either learn how to be logical, and work out the cause and effect of what the car is and is not doing, and how that relates to the parts, or get the car to a real shop with a mechanic that knows how to use logic to work through a diagnosis checklist.

So lets look at this for a couple of seconds, using logic, which you haven't done so far, and you have ignored from others.

What causes a car to not start, and stay running?

Lack of Fuel.
Lack of Air.
Lack of Ignition.
Lack of Compression.

So Lets start at the easiest part to check - the air filter.
Is it clean enough (ie, not as hard and solid as a chunk of concrete) to let air into the motor?

If its clean, lets check to see that the engine is sucking in air while the engine is cranking - With the air filter off the engine, hold your hand in front of the air intake, and have someone crank the engine. You should feel a sucking feeling. This feeling also helps to rule out a broken cam belt.

So, now you have confirmed the engine gets air into the combustion chamber (hopefully all of them).

Lets look at the ignition system, as this is the next easiest to diagnose.

Your car has ignition coil sticks.
You can remove one by simply unscrewing the hold down bolts, disconnecting the electrical connector, and pulling it up off the spark plug.

If you wanted to test spark, you could buy 1 extra spark plug, snap it into the ignition coil, hook up the connector, and crank the engine while the body of the plug is grounded. You could even use a jumper cable to ground the spark plug if there isn't a good ground point on top of the valve cover.

If you see frequent spark happening, then you can pretty much rule out the position sensors, and ECU issue. This would mean that you would have a fuel related problem.

However, if there is no spark, you would then have to troubleshoot further to see if one of the position sensors is the culprit, or if the ecu/wiring is the culprit.

Since a common issue with the car is the cam position sensor, I would recommend starting with that part. They are between $153 and $170 on rock auto. Yes, its expensive, but if it is what is wrong with your car, it won't start and stay running reliably without it replaced.

Now lets say the ignition system works fine, and we are now down to a fuel related problem. How do we diagnose that?

Lets start with something simple:

If you can find a connector to hook up a fuel pressure gauge on the car, then borrow one from your local auto parts store, and see if there's fuel pressure when the engine is cranking over. Typically, you need about 60 psi's for most fuel injection systems.

If you get no fuel pressure at all, then you need to determine if the fuel pump is the problem, or something that supplies electricity to the fuel pump (like the relay) that is causing the problem.

Usually you can jumper a battery directly to the fuel pump, or bypass the relay to see if the pump works. If you do that, and get pressure, then the relay is the issue. If you do that, and don't get pressure, then the pump is faulty.

There you go.
See how easy that was to give you a list of possibilities to work with?

Now do something useful with the information I just provided to you.

BC.


This was supremely informative.

I will apply the information to the problem tomorrow, and hopefully save a lot of coin.

I also own a multimeter..

Thank you!! (And thank you all!)

I know I get a LOT of good advice on this thread.
 
"The thing, OVERK1LL, is that.. I have limited resources. On top of these limited resources, as an aggravating factor, is that I *need* to keep this car running. Trust me, if I had the $$$ I would say "Sam, let us come get the car maybe Friday and DO THE TIMING BELT AND RELATED THINGS such as WP, coolant flush, etc."

Well you sure spend enough time on this forum. Perhaps pick up a few of these extra hours to have some more money.
 
Originally Posted By: jigen

Well you sure spend enough time on this forum. Perhaps pick up a few of these extra hours to have some more money.


That is a little harsh and uncalled for. The OP is here trying to get advice - nothing wrong with that.

I, for one, like the car. It isn't the most practical car, but who cares??
 
I'm not trying to sound harsh but at this point I am starting to doubt this guy's credibility. Like others on here have said, it feels like we re just getting played at this point. Lol, entertaining though.
 
Originally Posted By: jigen
I'm not trying to sound harsh but at this point I am starting to doubt this guy's credibility. Like others on here have said, it feels like we re just getting played at this point. Lol, entertaining though.


Credibility?? ? ?

... Guys/sir/all: I am going to Sam's RIGHT NOW. Will do all i can with photo, phone, video.. Will assess, and go from there.

http://www.yelp.com/biz/sams-auto-weymouth

My friend and I are committed to keeping the Volvo going. We call her "V."

Now, let's see if it starts, won't sart, etc. Printing Bladecutter's checklist, since they technically didnt DO anything to the car yet but turn the key and see it start....

Quote:
I am starting to doubt this guy's credibility.


I am doing what I can do, with what I have. I can NOT get to the dealer, outside of IN THE CAR. And NOBODY ELSE can do it either. And that is a stupid $5 battery hold-down, jerry-rigged from AAP.. so, PLEASE, STOP dwelling on that!! However, for plugs, etc.. yeah, I will get up there, in the car, when I can. (Shared ownerships, etc. schedules, we work

Quote:
it feels like we re just getting played at this point.


No, that is not what is happening.. this has been a drawn-out thing, and my desire to get the car right keeps me coming back, posting, and asking for advice and input.

I get equal amounts legitimate help (fdcg27, eljefino, others, etc etc) and judged for not just leaving it at the shop (not going there) so it evens itself out.

Back in a few...
 
P0118.

Did NOT start when I cleared the code. DID when I let it sit, then started. Code came back on when I revved it back up to 2000RPM.

May try clearing the code/MIL again...

Video:

(figuring out how to display it)
 
Okay, sorry for the accusation... I believe you.

But if you are an internet troll, I salute you for being the best one ever lol.

Good luck to you and your sexy volvo! I try to stay tuned to all your threads. (there's a lot! lol)
 
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