Group II + vs Group III oils

[345hemi]

My buddy who is an engine builder had told me that todays Group
II conventionals are just as good as GIII oils. Has anyone else have different opinion he told me im wasting money on synthetic with my oci's which 6000-7000 miles. is he full of it???

 

[CATERHAM]

No I wouldn't say he is "full of it" as today's name brand GP II oils are very good.
But GP III oils are better. Whether you need the better lube is hard to say especially in the 5w30 grade.
I look at it this way; when you can get a GP III oil like PP on sale for a great price, why even bother thinking about a dino oil.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: 345hemi
My buddy who is an engine builder had told me that todays Group II conventionals are just as good as GIII oils. Has anyone else have different opinion he told me im wasting money on synthetic with my oci's which 6000-7000 miles. is he full of it???


Is he full of it? On which count?

On the notion that Group II+ oils are as good as Group III oils? By the numbers, Group III fluids generally have wider operating margins, but this is generally not relevant if the lubricated machine is not pushing the envelope of what a Group II+ fluid can provide.

On the notion that synthetic is a waste for OCIs of 6,000-7,000 miles? He's probably right on that, and that ties into my point above. OCIs of 10,000-15,000 miles or track use or other extreme situations are pushing the envelope of lubricating fluids. 6,000 miles in a typical daily driver are not.

In general, I'd say that he's not full of it, and may be right, not knowing anything about your situation. What do you drive? Do you drive it on the track? Are your trips shorter than 5 miles? Lots of variables.

 

[dave1251]

For daily driving your friend is not full of it. For other "Extra-curricular" activities is where a synthetic oil would be useful.

 

[Artem]

I find it funny that group II oils are "just as good" as group III. If that was the case, why do either oils even exist?

I mean, if group II are just as good as GIII, why even make and sell GIII?

If GIII is pretty much the same as GII, why make and sell GII?

Your engine builder buddy might know how to put engines together but he doesn't know squat about engine oils.

As far as for OCIs and particular use... I look at it this way.

Use conventional oil for 6-7k OCIs and drain the oil with pretty much zero life left.

Use synthetic oil for 6-7k OCIs and drain the oil with some life left to go another few thousand SAFELY, if needed.

If your driving conditions all the sudden change and you're now considered under SEVERE duty, synthetic oil will provide better protection during the interval.

With today's oil deals, why even consider dino oil when you can get synthetic oil for cheap?

 

[carwreck]

Not full of it according to Valvoline.

A Valvoline representative on a "Jay Lenno's Garage" you-tube infomercial tells Jay Lenno... Jay Lenno's Garage Valvoline Oil

"a conventional oil with a very high additive package can be superior to a synthetic oil "

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: Artem
I find it funny that group II oils are "just as good" as group III. If that was the case, why do either oils even exist?

I mean, if group II are just as good as GIII, why even make and sell GIII?

If GIII is pretty much the same as GII, why make and sell GII?

Your engine builder buddy might know how to put engines together but he doesn't know squat about engine oils.

As far as for OCIs and particular use... I look at it this way.

Use conventional oil for 6-7k OCIs and drain the oil with pretty much zero life left.

Use synthetic oil for 6-7k OCIs and drain the oil with some life left to go another few thousand SAFELY, if needed.

If your driving conditions all the sudden change and you're now considered under SEVERE duty, synthetic oil will provide better protection during the interval.

With today's oil deals, why even consider dino oil when you can get synthetic oil for cheap?


You are stating fact without references to back it up. Why are many manufactures recommending 7-10K OCI's on today's vehicles on nothing more than conventional SN/GF-5 oils. What is next as I am cruising down the highway I am going to see flashes and smoke coming out of the tailpipes followed by the vehicle I am driving as I am trying to avoid accidents without engine power?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: carwreck
Not full of it according to Valvoline.

A Valvoline representative on a "Jay Lenno's Garage" you-tube infomercial tells Jay Lenno... Jay Lenno's Garage Valvoline Oil

"a conventional oil with a very high additive package can be superior to a synthetic oil "



Which is why so many conventional oils meet the plethora of euro specs right?

Or I guess that would require an explanation as to the context of the term "superior" here......

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: 345hemi
My buddy who is an engine builder had told me that todays Group
II conventionals are just as good as GIII oils. Has anyone else have different opinion he told me im wasting money on synthetic with my oci's which 6000-7000 miles. is he full of it???


He's pretty mostly right on both counts, though like most things the answer is "it depends". Not all base stocks are the same, even within group. The the physical and chemical requirements are such that the best GII base stocks can have nearly identical properties as the lowest-grade GIII stock.

Also, with the new requirements in SN/GF-5, any "conventional" oil should be suitable for most 6-7k OCI's, but again this depends on the car your driving conditions. As others have said though, GIII oils are available for cheap if you look around.

 

[tommygunn]

Group II's are as good as [censored] Group III's...

Just like good group III's can be called synthetic because they're as good as [censored] group IV's...

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: tommygunn
Group II's are as good as [censored] Group III's...

Just like good group III's can be called synthetic because they're as good as [censored] group IV's...


Some group III are as good as group IV. The base stock is a part of the formulation. A sum of the oil is greater than a part.

 

[345hemi]

i drive a 2011 charger r/t with a 5.7 hemi w/mds mostly highway. once in awhile i run her and push her. my other car is an 07 chrysler 300 with a 3.5 v6. it has a 115k with a mix of highway and stop n go city driving. Both have had mostly M1 and Valvoline or NAPA synthetic.

 

[345hemi]

he always says pyb and castrol gtx would suit my needs fine at my interval and since the charger is recommended 5w20 he said id be suited well by using motorcraft syn blend.

 

[dave1251]

He is correct it would suit your needs. But if you have to use a synthetic to make you feel better, I would not want to make you feel bad. Also I look at CP's syn blends as a syn blend that is blended to meet conventional performance.

 

[345hemi]

i never really saw the use for syn blends since they contain only about 3-5 % more add pack than conventional. i guess it does kind of make feel better using a synthetic compared to a conventional...LOL!!! he always says i use good filters NAPA/ WIX Gold or MOPAR ( Purolator).

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Which is why so many conventional oils meet the plethora of euro specs right?

Or I guess that would require an explanation as to the context of the term "superior" here......


Well, yes. Euro specs tend to also involve very extended drain intervals compared to what we're used to here. If we were routinely going 15 to 20 thousand miles between oil changes, I wouldn't doubt that oil specs would change here, too, with most people requiring synthetic.