Got my Micro Green oil filter in from the 50% sale

[alternety]

Yesterday I asked MG about the sale and a question about the filter (an unnecessary one) They responded in a few hours and gave me the information I asked for.

I also went and looked at their web site to see for myself issues that were causing so much turmoil and debate here. Some may want to reread their site; some already have. They warrant up to replacing an engine if the filter is at fault. Seems quite reasonable and clear. However they do not mention electrical, body frame or upholstery. So, maybe not so good.

They note that tests were done under the much discussed ISO tests. No they do not give specific numbers. But they indicate the results were good.

From their web site:

Extensive industry standard laboratory tests demonstrate that the microGreen cartridge oil filter exceeds industry standards for overall filtration performance, ensuring the quality and integrity of the filter and the pressure differential across the dual-stage filter layers.

ISO 4548-12 multi-pass tests have been conducted to determine the filtration efficiency and dirt holding capacity of the convention pleated full-flow filter element inside the microGreen filter. The results demonstrate that the microGreen filter exceeds the necessary performance requirements for extended use for both filtration efficiency and capacity.

A variety of conditions were simulated in laboratory testing under ISO protocol ISO-4548, concluding that that the microGreen cartridge oil filter offers exceptional engine protection and delivers superior contaminant removal capability as compared to a conventional filter. The results clearly exceed performance requirements and demonstrate the high quality of the filter assembly and manufacture.

But, all things considered, I just ordered some for my CR-V.

 

[Nate1979]

^^^^ One thing is for sure, their marketing team sure does have great skill at writing a lot without saying anything.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Nate1979
^^^^ One thing is for sure, their marketing team sure does have great skill at writing a lot without saying anything.


No kidding. What they said to alternety below could be said for many other filters on the market to and still leave you scratching your head. Apparently, the guys at MG don't want to formally divulge information, or they think the people asking aren't technical enough about oil filters to know what percentages with microns sizes mean.

Originally Posted By: alternety
They note that tests were done under the much discussed ISO tests. No they do not give specific numbers. But they indicate the results were good.

From their web site:

Extensive industry standard laboratory tests demonstrate that the microGreen cartridge oil filter exceeds industry standards for overall filtration performance, ensuring the quality and integrity of the filter and the pressure differential across the dual-stage filter layers.

ISO 4548-12 multi-pass tests have been conducted to determine the filtration efficiency and dirt holding capacity of the convention pleated full-flow filter element inside the microGreen filter. The results demonstrate that the microGreen filter exceeds the necessary performance requirements for extended use for both filtration efficiency and capacity.

A variety of conditions were simulated in laboratory testing under ISO protocol ISO-4548, concluding that that the microGreen cartridge oil filter offers exceptional engine protection and delivers superior contaminant removal capability as compared to a conventional filter. The results clearly exceed performance requirements and demonstrate the high quality of the filter assembly and manufacture.


So I find it strange that you get this general boiler plate response, while someone else got this response:

Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Originally Posted By: Ihatetochangeoil
....I received this reply today:

Thank you for your inquiry. The full flow filter is 99%@20 microns. The microdisk is rated 99%@5 micron. The 2 micron rating of the microdisk is captured through oil analysis and you can even find customers who have posted their results on BITOG. The Fram Ultra that you mention lists their efficiency as 99%@ >20 microns on the page link you listed. We’re not trying to start anything, but it’s worth mentioning since that is a slight contrast vs. what is being stated below and many filters would be able to claim 99% @ >20 microns.

For what it's worth, the title to my email was "Microgreen filters efficiency ratings per ISO 4548-12."


Like said earlier, if they test per ISO 4548-12 and have such good numbers then why don't they put it on their website ... it would be a positive thing to boast about for sure and people would be going nuts to buy these filters. Instead, knowledgeable people are questioning MG about details and they seem to be skirting giving out straight forward technical information.

Their website says the pleated media is tested to ISO 4548-12 (but don't say what the efficiency @ X microns is), and they don't say anything about how the 2 micron microdisk is tested. For that, I'm betting they might have gotten data from the microdisk manufacturer? ... anyone's guess. Strange goings on IMO.

 

[alternety]

Actually they did give me essentially what is in your second insert. In my post I just said it was unnecessary because I was asking about the possibility of the filter removing WS2 Buckyballs. And I had already read that info on their site. It probably won't grab them, but it is getting close.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: alternety
They note that tests were done under the much discussed ISO tests. No they do not give specific numbers. But they indicate the results were good.


Maybe it is just the years of working as a research technologist that has me jaded. I developed tests and analysis procedures for a many things that had to stand up to peer review and industry scrutiny. If I ever, ever made a statement like that I would have lost my job.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: alternety
From their web site:

Extensive industry standard laboratory tests demonstrate that the microGreen cartridge oil filter exceeds industry standards for overall filtration performance, ensuring the quality and integrity of the filter and the pressure differential across the dual-stage filter layers.

ISO 4548-12 multi-pass tests have been conducted to determine the filtration efficiency and dirt holding capacity of the convention pleated full-flow filter element inside the microGreen filter. The results demonstrate that the microGreen filter exceeds the necessary performance requirements for extended use for both filtration efficiency and capacity.

A variety of conditions were simulated in laboratory testing under ISO protocol ISO-4548, concluding that that the microGreen cartridge oil filter offers exceptional engine protection and delivers superior contaminant removal capability as compared to a conventional filter. The results clearly exceed performance requirements and demonstrate the high quality of the filter assembly and manufacture.


That is a complete, total and absolute load of saying nothing.

 

[UncleDave]

alternatey- can you pleas post the entire text you wrote to them and their reply?

Id like to see the entirely of it (minus all personal info) specially what question(s) you asked them and how they answered it.

Thanks!

UD

 

[Yah-Tah-Hey]

DENSO

 

[kohnen]

I fully understand all of your concerns. However, aren't the ISO tests aimed at a single filtering element? It could be that the single element ISO testing is not applicable to a filter that has a built-in bypass filter.

Not explicitly trying to defend them - Heck, if a single filtering element isn't applicable to a filter with a built-in bypass filter, they should come out and say that.

And, I use the filters as high quality filters, but replace them every 10,000 miles (along with M1 5w-30 EP) in my two Toyotas, and I replace the filter and oil according to the OLM on my car that is under warranty.

 

[UncleDave]

I think if they wanted to they would run the test holistically on the entire can.

They are being cagey purposefully. This board of directors knows exactly what they pushing out on their site.

That said regardless of any filters ISO test numbers - no other filter can match the extended run claim they publish so they have something unique.


UD

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: kohnen
I fully understand all of your concerns. However, aren't the ISO tests aimed at a single filtering element? It could be that the single element ISO testing is not applicable to a filter that has a built-in bypass filter.

Not explicitly trying to defend them - Heck, if a single filtering element isn't applicable to a filter with a built-in bypass filter, they should come out and say that.


In the one email response, MG said the main pleated 'full flow' part of the filter was 99% @ 20 microns and the small microdisk bypass part of the filter was 99% @ 5 microns. From the MG website: "ISO 4548-12 multi-pass tests have been conducted to determine the filtration efficiency and dirt holding capacity of the convention pleated full-flow filter element inside the microGreen filter." But no mention of efficiency percentage with associated particle size (that was only in the emails. http://www.microgreenfilter.com/Site/Products/microgreen-spin-on-oil-filter.aspx#category-tabs2

Quote:
Originally Posted By: Ihatetochangeoil
....I received this reply today:

Thank you for your inquiry. The full flow filter is 99%@20 microns. The microdisk is rated 99%@5 micron. The 2 micron rating of the microdisk is captured through oil analysis and you can even find customers who have posted their results on BITOG.


The main pleated part of the filter was tested per ISO 4548-12 which is mentioned on their website. The microdisk portion efficiency was apparently found through 'oil analysis' ... however that is done.

Originally Posted By: UncleDave
I think if they wanted to they would run the test holistically on the entire can.


Exactly ... if they did it right they would test the whole filter assembly per ISO 4548-12 just like any other spin-on oil filter. But I'm thinking the ISO test wouldn't really show any real workings of the mircodisk because the test would be somewhat short and accelerated compared to using the filter on a vehicle in real world use. That's why they have only said the main pleated portion of the filter was ISO tested.

Did MG say anywhere what percentage of the total flow through the filter is actually going through the fine filtering microdisk? I was think it's a very small percentage.

 

[UncleDave]

I recall seeing a video where the guy said 5. I'll try to dig it up.



UD

 

[DBMaster]

It's a small percentage in bypass filter arrangements, too. If you try to force the full flow of oil through such a fine filter it would either explode or starve the engine of oil. I think most bypass assemblies only divert about 10% of the flow.

 

[UncleDave]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5-QM77x-zU


2 minutes 30 seconds

"about 3-5% " he describes the oil being pulled through the microfilter vs pushed.

" in the course of about 2 hours he says all the oil will go through the MG filter"

(pretty sure he meant to say microfilter there as 2 hours their are oodles of passes through the same element.)

Interesting preso - he claims slightly diff numbers in these slides but it was a while ago, he does keep going back to all claims being field testing and oil analysis based vs. marketing.


UD

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Originally Posted By: Nate1979

I mean sketchy and unclear. Meaning it is not clear who is responsible in the case of failure of the oil. Example - suppose at 30k miles your engine is sludged up and there is some type of engine failure. Who will pay? What oil is required to meet the 30k performance? For example my Subie only requires SM conventional spec oil. Is that ok?


They seem pretty clear about how you make a claim....

But they don't say much about what oil to run only that you don't need synthetic oil.
Id imagine its whatever oil the MFGR certifies a min rated for that model.

This is where I see a potential problem, though. Let's assume that the filter is everything that they say it is. It certainly very well could be. That aside, my G37 calls for a 3750 mile OCI with SM 5w-30. So, what if I grab the most basic conventional 5w-30 and follow their instructions and do that for a relatively extended period of time; I know these engines can be a bit tough on oil, to say the least.

So, let's say my engine sludges or grenades or something. The filter may still very well be doing its job at catching insolubles. If I make a claim, are they within their rights to say yes, we have a warranty, but no, our product was not at faut; it was used as directed and continues to work and your oil let you down?

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: Garak
So, let's say my engine sludges or grenades or something. The filter may still very well be doing its job at catching insolubles. If I make a claim, are they within their rights to say yes, we have a warranty, but no, our product was not at faut; it was used as directed and continues to work and your oil let you down?


Correct, it would be the same with any oil filter manufacturer.

Imagine running bulk dino in my old 1MZ-FE for 30,000 miles. I don't care what filter was used, that would be a disaster but it wouldn't be the filter's fault.

 

[UncleDave]

I dont disagree with this issue needing to be called out as some min spec oil, but it isn't my nuts on the the line.

7 quarts of lone star would not work in my titan or anyones car for 30K.


UD

 

[Garak]

Yes, that's what I'm getting at. The filter may have some amazing capabilities. Taking every filtration claim at face value doesn't, however, make the oil a miracle fluid. If I were interested in trying a 30,000 mile OCI with this filter, you can be darned sure I'd be using something like Edge gold bottle, M1 EP, PU, Amsoil SS, or some A3/B4 or E7, E9 synthetic.

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Yes, that's what I'm getting at. The filter may have some amazing capabilities. Taking every filtration claim at face value doesn't, however, make the oil a miracle fluid. If I were interested in trying a 30,000 mile OCI with this filter, you can be darned sure I'd be using something like Edge gold bottle, M1 EP, PU, Amsoil SS, or some A3/B4 or E7, E9 synthetic.


bingo.

UD

 

[DBMaster]

That's what I did, but then, I've been using synthetic oil exclusively since 1989.