good advice; keep your old refrigerator

[alarmguy]

It is a double edged sword. These old refrigerators and freezers tend to be very reliable, and last a very long time, particularly if the ice maker is not used. But ones made before the Energy Star program was implemented are usually much less efficient.

This is true. a new refrigerator pays for itself in energy savings. Keeping an old one uses far more power. Pretty much pays for itself. I look for a life of about 12ish years and time to replace with something newer and up to date.

Our refrigerator uses less than 100 watts, roughly 83 watts at the most.
Less than $6 a month to run @ 10 cents kWr. Has Linear compressor and freon R600A

 

[Cujet]

This is true. a new refrigerator pays for itself in energy savings. Keeping an old one uses far more power. Pretty much pays for itself. I look for a life of about 12ish years and time to replace with something newer and up to date.

Our refrigerator uses less than 100 watts, roughly 83 watts at the most.
Less than $6 a month to run @ 10 cents kWr.

Don't trust the tags, use a Kill-a-Watt. Of course every household is different, but your calculations seem to be on par with today's low normal of 800kWh per year. I'm about 1000 with my new Samsung fridge, w/bottom freezer.

 

[alarmguy]

Don't trust the tags, use a Kill-a-Watt. Of course every household is different, but your calculations seem to be on par with today's low normal of 800kWh per year. I'm about 1000 with my new Samsung fridge, w/bottom freezer.

Agree, that would put me in line with what you have since we are a 23 cf counter depth side by side. So being smaller and linear compressor we would be on the lower side. Im wondering if the plate on the back of the unit has wattage. They used to I think. I have to pull it out soon and blow off the coils

Unrelated to this thread ( will start a new one if I havent already) is the new plug in solar panels.
Used all over Europe and for some reason a headache for states to approve them here (power industry lobby?) Utah just approved it. No permits needed
For fun, I want a 650 to 1000 watt panel set up. You do it yourself and simply plug it into a wall outlet.

 

[tmorris1]

It is a double edged sword. These old refrigerators and freezers tend to be very reliable, and last a very long time, particularly if the ice maker is not used. But ones made before the Energy Star program was implemented are usually much less efficient.

It's also not very efficient to replace a whole refrigerator every 5 years either

 

[alarmguy]

It's also not very efficient to replace a whole refrigerator every 5 years either

I think that is rather short. 10 to 12 years would be the norm if not more.

 

[MaximumMini]

These new refrigerators are designed like new vehicles....to keep cash flowing into the manufacturers hands.
This entire corporate "Profits above all else" business plan totally wrecks any idea of "Green Energy" saving the planet.
Humans are insane.

 

[alarmguy]

These new refrigerators are designed like new vehicles....to keep cash flowing into the manufacturers hands.
This entire corporate "Profits above all else" business plan totally wrecks any idea of "Green Energy" saving the planet.
Humans are insane.

Well, I can 100% agree humans are insane that is for sure. As far as appliances, well our last Kenmore Elite of 16 years was still running fine and trouble free when we sold our house two years ago. Still looked new too, just beautiful. I did replace an ice maker component myself around age 10.

So I won't know how long our new LG will last and hopefully I will outlive it past the last refrigerator of 16 years. Compressor has a 10 yer warranty and is so efficient it uses energy of less than a 100 watt light bulb, closer to 75 watts. In a way, depending on your kWh cost for your electricity they pay for themselves over old units.

We bought our daughter a GE refrigerator a couple months ago as part of a house warming gift and the GE warranty is ONE year on all parts. (GE is now China owned) That is NUTs.

I just dont know considering price and energy savings if today's refrigerators are bad. I mean, after 10+ years we tend to get tired of stuff. By year 12 close to half the population leaves that one behind and moves to a new house. We also must keep in mind government dictates energy efficiency and we are the government. Well hopefully I live long enough to find out how this LG will go.

As far as cars, I would disagree with you. They are vastly more reliable and last far longer than the cars of decades ago. Gosh at one time a vehicle with 75,000 on it was old, transmissions, ball joints needing replacement etc.

However like you say, insane humans just love to load up debt and drive the newest latest over featured automobiles. All the old ones get shipped to countries overseas for resale.

This is only going back 20 years.

Source - https://fordauthority.com/2023/05/a...-once-again-at-all-time-high/#google_vignette

 

[macarose]

Well, I can 100% agree humans are insane that is for sure. As far as appliances, well our last Kenmore Elite of 16 years was still running fine and trouble free when we sold our house two years ago. Still looked new too, just beautiful. I did replace an ice maker component myself around age 10.

So I won't know how long our new LG will last and hopefully I will outlive it past the last refrigerator of 16 years. Compressor has a 10 yer warranty and is so efficient it uses energy of less than a 100 watt light bulb, closer to 75 watts. In a way, depending on your kWh cost for your electricity they pay for themselves over old units.

We bought our daughter a GE refrigerator a couple months ago as part of a house warming gift and the GE warranty is ONE year on all parts. (GE is now China owned) That is NUTs.

I just dont know considering price and energy savings if today's refrigerators are bad. I mean, after 10+ years we tend to get tired of stuff. By year 12 close to half the population leaves that one behind and moves to a new house. We also must keep in mind government dictates energy efficiency and we are the government. Well hopefully I live long enough to find out how this LG will go.

As far as cars, I would disagree with you. They are vastly more reliable and last far longer than the cars of decades ago. Gosh at one time a vehicle with 75,000 on it was old, transmissions, ball joints needing replacement etc.

However like you say, insane humans just love to load up debt and drive the newest latest over featured automobiles. All the old ones get shipped to countries overseas for resale.

This is only going back 20 years.

View attachment 295780
Source - https://fordauthority.com/2023/05/a...-once-again-at-all-time-high/#google_vignette

One of the hidden statistics in this graph is the lack of new cars that are now sold in North America.

GM and Chrysler no longer sells cars. Ford only sells the Mustang. Most market segments in the car segment now only have about a half dozen models at most.

I believe the average of a vehicle in North America is 12.8 years old. That's just over three years older than it was in 2023. There are a very long list of factors, from OBDII systems to purchasing cost that are driving that number upwards.

As for refrigerators and other appliances... my family now keeps spares just in case. One refrigerator we bought for just $25 at a nearby estate sale. I don't remember the year, but it is a basic model. The 2012 Speed Queen washer and dryer cost $165 at a nearby college. It was only used a couple of months out of the year and should serve us once our current ones go kaput.

 

[MaximumMini]

As I have always maintained, no matter what point of view you wish to "prove", you can find your "evidence" online.
Your source is owned b y Motrolix and on many automotive forums their publications are regarded as "Misfires".
The reason new vehicles will never be as reliable as vehicles of the past is very easy to explain.

1). Manufacturers have absolutely turned to a Profits FIRST business model. Quality is an afterthought at best.
2). To this end, they cut corners every chance possible by using less machining, less metal, less wire, less paint and more plastics to meet fuel economy mandates. This model is followed all the way down the line of sources.
3). New vehicles are overly complex. Complexity increases the odds of failure.
4). Manufacturers are moving to a business model that removes the ability to service the vehicle outside of their dealerships.
5). US government safety mandates have over ruled common sense and things like automotive finishes cannot use compounds absolutely necessary to apply a lasting finish (just one example)

You can present any point of view you wish, but if vehicles have become so reliable as your graph wants you to believe, why have extended warranties become practically mandatory if you buy a new vehicle? Shouldn't the opposite occur?

As an engine builder and vehicle restorer, I've seen these downgrades over a long period of time year over year as new models come out.
Entire electrical systems can be taken down by one small fault in a relatively benign device anywhere in the electrical bus path.
And then you MUST take it to a dealership.....good luck.

 

[MaximumMini]

Oh, and another thing.....
More people are turning to keeping their vehicles longer and repairing them instead of getting into debt buying new or depending on dealerships for expensive repairs. The cost of living is much higher today. many people simply cannot afford the cost of ownership of new vehicles which has also sky-rocketed.
That is probably the cause of the increase in the age of vehicles on the road. Not because of better quality.

 

[tmorris1]

I think that is rather short. 10 to 12 years would be the norm if not more.

Our LG just had the compressor go at less than 4 years. Luckily it was under warranty (we bought a very reasonable extended warranty). It appears after looking that LG has lots of compressor
problems, but our last Frigidaire went out after about 5 years (I fixed this myself several times in the 5 years we had it) during COVID and I had to take what i could get. Luckily I have an old Hotpoint garage fridge and Karl's Appliance that we bought it from gave us a loaner fridge while they replace the compressor in the LG.

I asked the guys that came to get our LG for repair what brands are good. They said GE models without all the bells and whistles seem to be solid. He said they rarely repair them.

The past 2 that I have bought have not made it 5 years, so I will stand by what I said.

 

[tmorris1]

 

[Patman]

One of the hidden statistics in this graph is the lack of new cars that are now sold in North America.

GM and Chrysler no longer sells cars. Ford only sells the Mustang. Most market segments in the car segment now only have about a half dozen models at most.

GM still sells the Corvette

 

[macarose]

GM still sells the Corvette

Good point. Forgot about that one low volume model.

 

[walterjay]

I think that is rather short. 10 to 12 years would be the norm if not more.

Not anymore. Lucky to hit 10

 

[Patman]

Good point. Forgot about that one low volume model.

Not exactly a low volume model. They sold 43,000 of them last year. That’s only 1000 less than the Mustang actually

 

[Arc]

Energy star is based on manufacturer submitted data not actual government testing. That plus they must continue to pay for the energy star rating. Light fixtures with an energy star rating only have to say use an led lamp in the instructions.

 

[Arc]

View attachment 295819

Throw in an led lamp and a smaller defrost heating element and it will probably have a better rating than a new one.

 

[alarmguy]

Our LG just had the compressor go at less than 4 years. Luckily it was under warranty (we bought a very reasonable extended warranty). It appears after looking that LG has lots of compressor
problems, but our last Frigidaire went out after about 5 years (I fixed this myself several times in the 5 years we had it) during COVID and I had to take what i could get. Luckily I have an old Hotpoint garage fridge and Karl's Appliance that we bought it from gave us a loaner fridge while they replace the compressor in the LG.

I asked the guys that came to get our LG for repair what brands are good. They said GE models without all the bells and whistles seem to be solid. He said they rarely repair them.

The past 2 that I have bought have not made it 5 years, so I will stand by what I said.

I don’t blame you. I look at it like this. I buy what I like and past problems with one particular issue at one period of time doesn’t stop me.
If it did, we would never buy any product or automobile.

I know the period of time with compressor issues and I know what the cause was. Those times passed. So it works for me and now I have a 10 year warranty on the LG 5 years labor where GE only offers a one year warranty.
Though this doesn’t matter as much, but by not buying GE, I’m not supporting China. The thing is the GE did not come close to matching the features of the LG.

 

[alarmguy]

Oh, and another thing.....
More people are turning to keeping their vehicles longer and repairing them instead of getting into debt buying new or depending on dealerships for expensive repairs. The cost of living is much higher today. many people simply cannot afford the cost of ownership of new vehicles which has also sky-rocketed.
That is probably the cause of the increase in the age of vehicles on the road. Not because of better quality.

I disagree. My last 2008 Dodge Durango never needed repair for 150,000 miles..
It had the small V8. There is no way going back a couple decades. Any automobile would make it 150,000 miles without a repair.

My wife’s 2012 Mazda sky active went 12 full years without a repair. We sold it November 2024 to someone in our community and it still goes strong.
No way decades back would a car have gone 12 years without a repair.

So I’m either very lucky or extremely intelligent to pick the right vehicle vehicles all the time. A decade ago no matter what I did. There is no way I would’ve made it for that period of time without needing repair on something.

My current 2017 Chevy Traverse with its 5100 pound tow rating because we tow a boat has 85,000 miles on it and never needed a repair