Going over to Mobil 1 Synthetic
- Thread starter 02SI
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted By: Mudcat
Thanks for the nice photos. What did failure analysis reveal concerning the root cause of the failure(s)?
That pitted cam lobe could be the result of poor quality metallurgy so common these days. 20 years ago break disks lasted the life of the car. Now brake disks last as little as 5 years (eg. Opel Astra) because of impurities in the poor quality chinese metals and they call them "performance brakes"
Thanks for the nice photos. What did failure analysis reveal concerning the root cause of the failure(s)?
That pitted cam lobe could be the result of poor quality metallurgy so common these days. 20 years ago break disks lasted the life of the car. Now brake disks last as little as 5 years (eg. Opel Astra) because of impurities in the poor quality chinese metals and they call them "performance brakes"
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
Aren't these engines similar to the base 160 horsepower RSX engine ?
Yes these are same motors the K20A3. The SI just has a different intake manifold and header.
As for what is causing the problem we can not get a for sure on the issue yet. Even some aftermarket cams were having the same issue. After complaints on the cams it has been seen that dealers went over to 5w30 and the complaints dropped.
But since changing the oil helped for honda with complaints we are thinking it is oil issue.
Aren't these engines similar to the base 160 horsepower RSX engine ?
Yes these are same motors the K20A3. The SI just has a different intake manifold and header.
As for what is causing the problem we can not get a for sure on the issue yet. Even some aftermarket cams were having the same issue. After complaints on the cams it has been seen that dealers went over to 5w30 and the complaints dropped.
But since changing the oil helped for honda with complaints we are thinking it is oil issue.
That'd be my choice, as well! OH! It is for my Element!!
Looks like a soft camshaft to me, might have been an error in the hardening process or just plain poor metallurgy.
Ive had issues with this type of camshaft failure before on both Chrysler and GM engines, looked exactly the same.
Without a failure analysis it's impossible to know for sure but from the looks of it thats my guess.Of course as the cams are replaced and oil switched to 5w30 the problem goes away. So by changing two variables at once how do we know for sure which "fix" fixed the problem? I seriously doubt the difference between 20 and 30 weight (which is very small) could cause this.
Please understand I am not defending 5w-20 oil but rather would want the blame placed properly so we don' all go running off with the idea that either
a) 5w-20 oils cause camshaft failure, or
b) Honda has or had, bad camshafts
until we know for sure, please keep us posted when you get the results back on the failure analysis.
SS
Ive had issues with this type of camshaft failure before on both Chrysler and GM engines, looked exactly the same.
Without a failure analysis it's impossible to know for sure but from the looks of it thats my guess.Of course as the cams are replaced and oil switched to 5w30 the problem goes away. So by changing two variables at once how do we know for sure which "fix" fixed the problem? I seriously doubt the difference between 20 and 30 weight (which is very small) could cause this.
Please understand I am not defending 5w-20 oil but rather would want the blame placed properly so we don' all go running off with the idea that either
a) 5w-20 oils cause camshaft failure, or
b) Honda has or had, bad camshafts
until we know for sure, please keep us posted when you get the results back on the failure analysis.
SS
If it was heat treating then all of the lobes should have been affected, no ?
In any case there are no problems with Hondas, there are only problem Honda owners, and the same can be said about 5w20 as there are only problem oil users, unlcean people who do not change the oil often enough. Both are sacred, so Mr Man you just better find out what the real problem is as it's certainly the pure 5w20 oil being used in a vehicle that is free from the common problems of domestic cars.
In any case there are no problems with Hondas, there are only problem Honda owners, and the same can be said about 5w20 as there are only problem oil users, unlcean people who do not change the oil often enough. Both are sacred, so Mr Man you just better find out what the real problem is as it's certainly the pure 5w20 oil being used in a vehicle that is free from the common problems of domestic cars.
Great photos. Whatever else that the 5w-20 oil may (or may not) be accomplishing, it certainly seems to be a clean engine free of deposits.
I wonder if it is the same lobes having the problem on all the damaged camshafts?
My gut tells me there is a quality control problem somewhere.
Excellent thread. So often we read on here that nobody has experienced any problems with 5w-20. It is very interesting to get a case where that claim can be put to the test.
I wonder if it is the same lobes having the problem on all the damaged camshafts?
My gut tells me there is a quality control problem somewhere.
Excellent thread. So often we read on here that nobody has experienced any problems with 5w-20. It is very interesting to get a case where that claim can be put to the test.
Originally Posted By: JSRT4
Mobil1 oil will be a good choice , it is a real synthetic despite some of the internet rumours you hear from uninformed people. You really don't need a synthetic in that engine, you just need more viscosity and perhaps some decent additive package. Mobil1 would be great, as would Amsoil or Redline or Castrol GC. You could do fine with Castrol GTX on a shorter OCI if you want a less expensive option, in a 5w30 or 10w30 weight.
I myself would always run a Honda oil filter, they are designed to flow the proper amount of oil for your engine. The Mobil1 filter has a chance of being more restrictive. In a high rpm motor oil flow is more important than being able to filter odwn to the smallest micron of particle IMO. Some aftermarket oil filters claim to filter more particles and all that stuff, but they don't tell you how well they do in terms of oil flow levels. Stick with Honda oil filters they are high quality filters.
really dont need?
got any stats on honda oil filters? i/e flow, micron rating?
if I wanted the best for my engine I would want the best filtration possible as well as the best lubricant. Mobil1 would not be my choice, but it is alot better choice than what Honda has at the dealership.
I could be wrong but capturing smaller particles in a filter does not mean more oil flow restriction. I would bet that a quality filter that caught particles as small as 5 micron would flow more oil through the filter media than the sticks and stones filters sold on the shelf at discount...
Mobil1 oil will be a good choice , it is a real synthetic despite some of the internet rumours you hear from uninformed people. You really don't need a synthetic in that engine, you just need more viscosity and perhaps some decent additive package. Mobil1 would be great, as would Amsoil or Redline or Castrol GC. You could do fine with Castrol GTX on a shorter OCI if you want a less expensive option, in a 5w30 or 10w30 weight.
I myself would always run a Honda oil filter, they are designed to flow the proper amount of oil for your engine. The Mobil1 filter has a chance of being more restrictive. In a high rpm motor oil flow is more important than being able to filter odwn to the smallest micron of particle IMO. Some aftermarket oil filters claim to filter more particles and all that stuff, but they don't tell you how well they do in terms of oil flow levels. Stick with Honda oil filters they are high quality filters.
really dont need?
got any stats on honda oil filters? i/e flow, micron rating?
if I wanted the best for my engine I would want the best filtration possible as well as the best lubricant. Mobil1 would not be my choice, but it is alot better choice than what Honda has at the dealership.
I could be wrong but capturing smaller particles in a filter does not mean more oil flow restriction. I would bet that a quality filter that caught particles as small as 5 micron would flow more oil through the filter media than the sticks and stones filters sold on the shelf at discount...
Well I went to wally world to get some things and I checked their oil area that had 5w30 extentend performance on the same display with the normal 5w30 syn oil for 22.88. So went to get check out rang up at 26.82. Well since they marked it wrong I got it for 22.88 for a 5qt jug. I had to go to auto zone for the filter since all wally had was fram, motorcraft, and AC delco. I got the Mobil 1 EP oil filter.
When at autozone and their cost a qt was $7.50 mine was $4.58 a qt. I can not beet that for a price. With tax and filter a full synthetic change will cost me under $35.
When at autozone and their cost a qt was $7.50 mine was $4.58 a qt. I can not beet that for a price. With tax and filter a full synthetic change will cost me under $35.
Not bad O2SI! Always nice to get a good deal!
to the board!
BTW forgot to ask they still have a 2nd 5qt jug on the 22.88 display if they have it there still tomarrow would it be OK to keep it a year till my next oil change sealed? I think I will pick up a qt for a top off since I will have a 1/2 qt left after my change.
- Status
