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1975-1994 ... bet they still use many of the same parts, right ?
GM temporarily closing 5 plants
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Originally Posted By: Alex_V
I've honestly wondered if the average US driver - people with the meticulous habits like a lot of BITOG'ers not withstanding - is more likely to maintain a foreign car better than a domestic one. It may just be me, but I can see somebody that bought an Accord brand new springing for a synthetic OC, transmission flush, etc., at the dealership easier than someone who bought a new Cruze or Malibu. The slight difference in mindset of the individual sure that the Accord is the better purchase than the domestic equivalent, in theory, also translates to the "my car is superior and deserves superior maintenance" even if they don't get down to the technical details - the why - of it. Not that Honda, Toyota, and others haven't had more reliable, longetic models more often than domestic manufacturers, but GM alone made some darn good cars and trucks in the last 20 years, and I've worked on plenty of them that I was impressed how much the owners beat on them and the car showed no evidence of it.
And yeah, my Cruze has rear cupholders, too - just have to investigate far enough to notice they fold down outa the seat back. 0_o
One hundred percent true...
I've honestly wondered if the average US driver - people with the meticulous habits like a lot of BITOG'ers not withstanding - is more likely to maintain a foreign car better than a domestic one. It may just be me, but I can see somebody that bought an Accord brand new springing for a synthetic OC, transmission flush, etc., at the dealership easier than someone who bought a new Cruze or Malibu. The slight difference in mindset of the individual sure that the Accord is the better purchase than the domestic equivalent, in theory, also translates to the "my car is superior and deserves superior maintenance" even if they don't get down to the technical details - the why - of it. Not that Honda, Toyota, and others haven't had more reliable, longetic models more often than domestic manufacturers, but GM alone made some darn good cars and trucks in the last 20 years, and I've worked on plenty of them that I was impressed how much the owners beat on them and the car showed no evidence of it.
And yeah, my Cruze has rear cupholders, too - just have to investigate far enough to notice they fold down outa the seat back. 0_o
One hundred percent true...
This case might be a little different but based on my experience in the automotive industry every end of year and sometimes middle of the year there are always shutdowns.
I worked at DENSO for 3 years and every December there is a 2 week shutdown.
Now i am working in the KIA/Hyundai group and it is the same case except is one week in June and one in December.
I worked at DENSO for 3 years and every December there is a 2 week shutdown.
Now i am working in the KIA/Hyundai group and it is the same case except is one week in June and one in December.
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Well, I have always maintained Ford/GM and no issues - but mentioned before my son had the most neglected Aztek go 13 years without issues - and his size 13 foot is not easy on things. Has had lots of dealer trips with 2013 Charger - recalls and replaced parts on FC's dime.
Originally Posted By: Silverado12
The fat cats may not care, but the guy who works in the factory sure appreciates you buying American. FWIW all my domestics have been reliable.
I've never understood this logic. I drive a Japanese truck. That truck was built by American workers in Smyrna, TN. It may have been true 30 years ago that buying an American brand meant that it was built by American workers, but that's not the case anymore. We live in a global economy.
I don't think we can paint with such broad brush strokes anymore. That's my only point. I've owned both American and Japanese cars, and have nothing bad to say about either. But I've always selected vehicles based on need/reviews, not manufacturer.
The fat cats may not care, but the guy who works in the factory sure appreciates you buying American. FWIW all my domestics have been reliable.
I've never understood this logic. I drive a Japanese truck. That truck was built by American workers in Smyrna, TN. It may have been true 30 years ago that buying an American brand meant that it was built by American workers, but that's not the case anymore. We live in a global economy.
I don't think we can paint with such broad brush strokes anymore. That's my only point. I've owned both American and Japanese cars, and have nothing bad to say about either. But I've always selected vehicles based on need/reviews, not manufacturer.
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I think it's a contest to see who can add the least value to the forum - Merk, Crazyoildude or Pop.
Originally Posted By: CKN
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
If GM would start building quality vehicles again and maybe give a better warranty people may start buying them again and they would not have to close.
You do realize all the plants closing are cars and the market has moved to Crossovers and SUVs?
You do realize the Suburban/Tahoe are the number one selling large SUVs?
OH-and if you combine the Silverado/Sierra nameplates they often sell more trucks than Ford?
Other than these comments your post is so ignorant it doesn't deserve much else.
Originally Posted By: CKN
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
If GM would start building quality vehicles again and maybe give a better warranty people may start buying them again and they would not have to close.
You do realize all the plants closing are cars and the market has moved to Crossovers and SUVs?
You do realize the Suburban/Tahoe are the number one selling large SUVs?
OH-and if you combine the Silverado/Sierra nameplates they often sell more trucks than Ford?
Other than these comments your post is so ignorant it doesn't deserve much else.
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Build any GM car and then build the same thing at another brand. The GM vehicle (before rebates/incentives) is always more expensive.
There are a lot of people around that at one time owned US made cars from the late 1980's up to the start of this century. While there were quality improvements during that time period, there were some US cars with poor quality. Often enough, these people switched to Japanese cars as a result, and have never switched back. Getting these people to switch back to US made cars, even if they are now just as good as the Japanese cars for the most part is not something that will happen easily. Many of these folks have bought Japanese cars for their kids who are now used to buying only Japanese.
Cars are a very big purchase, and once you lose a buyer because of quality issues, it is tough to get them back.
Cars are a very big purchase, and once you lose a buyer because of quality issues, it is tough to get them back.
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
If GM would start building quality vehicles again and maybe give a better warranty people may start buying them again and they would not have to close.
Yes, there's such a high demand for Corvettes and Camaros, when a good portion of the country is currently dealing with a annual phenomenon called "winter".
If GM would start building quality vehicles again and maybe give a better warranty people may start buying them again and they would not have to close.
Yes, there's such a high demand for Corvettes and Camaros, when a good portion of the country is currently dealing with a annual phenomenon called "winter".
Originally Posted By: Oey12
They do build quality vehicles. People are just addicted to vehicles made by foreign companies and have been brainwashed to believe that Japanese or Korean cars are so much better even though they have never owned a vehicle from an American company. It's anti American bias championed by its own citizens. It's pathetic and disgraceful.
I am sorry but I have to highly disagree with you on the whole quality vehicle thing. I have 3 family members that bought 3 different GM NEW products in the last 2 years and 2 of them burn oil badly while the third one is severe, has to add oil weekly so the engine doesn't blow. GM has not helped anyone of them and said they are working on the issue (same [censored] answer from different dealerships in NY NJ PA). Another family member had a Chevy suburban that after 4 years that all the waring lights and radio would flicker and light up like a xmas tree while driving down the road which was also brought brand new. People are not brainwashed, people are keeping their vehicles longer and putting more miles on them ever before and it is tough for the America companies to compete with the long term Japanese reliability. It is not anti american, I have a family to feed and have to put many miles on my vehicle to do such so buying a 32,000 dollar vehicle and getting 300k out of it without constant trips to the mechanic is what I need as a consumer. Again I am not anti American and I drive Toyotas and I find it pathetic and disgraceful that American car companies aren't working on reliability and long term use. Truthfully I would much rather drive a Ford any day of the week but financially I can't afford it. [/quote] Once again the Camry sold here is built here and contains a larger percentage of American made parts that the "American" cars it competes with. Or, you could buy an "american" Chrysler product built in Canada and using a Mexican engine. That's "buy American" for you. BTW the PROFITS from Chrysler sales end up in Italy.
They do build quality vehicles. People are just addicted to vehicles made by foreign companies and have been brainwashed to believe that Japanese or Korean cars are so much better even though they have never owned a vehicle from an American company. It's anti American bias championed by its own citizens. It's pathetic and disgraceful.
I am sorry but I have to highly disagree with you on the whole quality vehicle thing. I have 3 family members that bought 3 different GM NEW products in the last 2 years and 2 of them burn oil badly while the third one is severe, has to add oil weekly so the engine doesn't blow. GM has not helped anyone of them and said they are working on the issue (same [censored] answer from different dealerships in NY NJ PA). Another family member had a Chevy suburban that after 4 years that all the waring lights and radio would flicker and light up like a xmas tree while driving down the road which was also brought brand new. People are not brainwashed, people are keeping their vehicles longer and putting more miles on them ever before and it is tough for the America companies to compete with the long term Japanese reliability. It is not anti american, I have a family to feed and have to put many miles on my vehicle to do such so buying a 32,000 dollar vehicle and getting 300k out of it without constant trips to the mechanic is what I need as a consumer. Again I am not anti American and I drive Toyotas and I find it pathetic and disgraceful that American car companies aren't working on reliability and long term use. Truthfully I would much rather drive a Ford any day of the week but financially I can't afford it. [/quote] Once again the Camry sold here is built here and contains a larger percentage of American made parts that the "American" cars it competes with. Or, you could buy an "american" Chrysler product built in Canada and using a Mexican engine. That's "buy American" for you. BTW the PROFITS from Chrysler sales end up in Italy.
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Originally Posted By: TWG1572
Originally Posted By: Silverado12
The fat cats may not care, but the guy who works in the factory sure appreciates you buying American. FWIW all my domestics have been reliable.
I've never understood this logic. I drive a Japanese truck. That truck was built by American workers in Smyrna, TN. It may have been true 30 years ago that buying an American brand meant that it was built by American workers, but that's not the case anymore. We live in a global economy.
I don't think we can paint with such broad brush strokes anymore. That's my only point. I've owned both American and Japanese cars, and have nothing bad to say about either. But I've always selected vehicles based on need/reviews, not manufacturer.
Just so you know, the profits from American-built, Japanese owned go back to Tokyo. I worked for a Japanese owned company for 25 years and I can tell you they don't give a flyingfornication about American workers-we are considered disposable tools.
Originally Posted By: Silverado12
The fat cats may not care, but the guy who works in the factory sure appreciates you buying American. FWIW all my domestics have been reliable.
I've never understood this logic. I drive a Japanese truck. That truck was built by American workers in Smyrna, TN. It may have been true 30 years ago that buying an American brand meant that it was built by American workers, but that's not the case anymore. We live in a global economy.
I don't think we can paint with such broad brush strokes anymore. That's my only point. I've owned both American and Japanese cars, and have nothing bad to say about either. But I've always selected vehicles based on need/reviews, not manufacturer.
Just so you know, the profits from American-built, Japanese owned go back to Tokyo. I worked for a Japanese owned company for 25 years and I can tell you they don't give a flyingfornication about American workers-we are considered disposable tools.
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Originally Posted By: TWG1572
Originally Posted By: Silverado12
The fat cats may not care, but the guy who works in the factory sure appreciates you buying American. FWIW all my domestics have been reliable.
I've never understood this logic. I drive a Japanese truck. That truck was built by American workers in Smyrna, TN. It may have been true 30 years ago that buying an American brand meant that it was built by American workers, but that's not the case anymore. We live in a global economy.
I don't think we can paint with such broad brush strokes anymore. That's my only point. I've owned both American and Japanese cars, and have nothing bad to say about either. But I've always selected vehicles based on need/reviews, not manufacturer.
The parts are all Japanese.
Originally Posted By: Silverado12
The fat cats may not care, but the guy who works in the factory sure appreciates you buying American. FWIW all my domestics have been reliable.
I've never understood this logic. I drive a Japanese truck. That truck was built by American workers in Smyrna, TN. It may have been true 30 years ago that buying an American brand meant that it was built by American workers, but that's not the case anymore. We live in a global economy.
I don't think we can paint with such broad brush strokes anymore. That's my only point. I've owned both American and Japanese cars, and have nothing bad to say about either. But I've always selected vehicles based on need/reviews, not manufacturer.
The parts are all Japanese.
Originally Posted By: 2004tdigls
GM does not make quality vehicles
(former owner of a pontiac sunbird and gmc sonoma) , both vehicles were biodegradable garbage
remember GM is the company that allowed defective ignitions to kill over 100 people, and they knew as early as 2001 that the ignition switches were dangerous but just kept installing them in cars
http://fortune.com/2015/08/24/feinberg-gm-faulty-ignition-switch/
http://blog.caranddriver.com/gm-ignition-switch-review-complete-124-fatalities-274-injuries/
in my personal opinion, it looks good on them
You must not have been around for this-
Pinto Exploding Gas tanks
Or, how about the Toyota sudden acceleration fiasco?
Point is-many auto makers have had their turn at producing "killer cars".
GM does not make quality vehicles
(former owner of a pontiac sunbird and gmc sonoma) , both vehicles were biodegradable garbage
remember GM is the company that allowed defective ignitions to kill over 100 people, and they knew as early as 2001 that the ignition switches were dangerous but just kept installing them in cars
http://fortune.com/2015/08/24/feinberg-gm-faulty-ignition-switch/
http://blog.caranddriver.com/gm-ignition-switch-review-complete-124-fatalities-274-injuries/
in my personal opinion, it looks good on them
You must not have been around for this-
Pinto Exploding Gas tanks
Or, how about the Toyota sudden acceleration fiasco?
Point is-many auto makers have had their turn at producing "killer cars".
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The Pinto thing is largely debunked. They were no more likely to explode than any other similar class of compact cars, including Hondas and Toyotas...
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
If GM would start building quality vehicles again and maybe give a better warranty people may start buying them again and they would not have to close.
If GM would start building quality vehicles again and maybe give a better warranty people may start buying them again and they would not have to close.
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Originally Posted By: oilpsi2high
I've never understood this logic. I drive a Japanese truck. That truck was built by American workers in Smyrna, TN. It may have been true 30 years ago that buying an American brand meant that it was built by American workers, but that's not the case anymore. We live in a global economy.
I don't think we can paint with such broad brush strokes anymore. That's my only point. I've owned both American and Japanese cars, and have nothing bad to say about either. But I've always selected vehicles based on need/reviews, not manufacturer.
The parts are all Japanese. [/quote]
Proof ?
I've never understood this logic. I drive a Japanese truck. That truck was built by American workers in Smyrna, TN. It may have been true 30 years ago that buying an American brand meant that it was built by American workers, but that's not the case anymore. We live in a global economy.
I don't think we can paint with such broad brush strokes anymore. That's my only point. I've owned both American and Japanese cars, and have nothing bad to say about either. But I've always selected vehicles based on need/reviews, not manufacturer.
The parts are all Japanese. [/quote]
Proof ?
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I used to think that GM's "perception gap" was something dreamed up by GM executives, but as time goes by and my understanding of the world and people improves, I think it is true and it also applies to Chrysler and Ford.
Around Toronto, the indy business that specializes in Toyotas and Hondas is booming. Visit any of the Japanese car dealers and their service bays are full. Yet you still hear that these cars go on nothing but oil and tire changes or that the local indy shops see nothing but domestic vehicles.
Some of it used to be true simply due to the fact that during 80s, 90s and early 2000s Honda and Toyota had a very small market share, the overwhelming majority of vehicles on the road were domestic. It should not take a genius to figure out that if you have more domestic cars on the road, more of them will be seen in service bays.
Now that Japanese managed to take a good portion of the market share, you see them being fixed and the business is so good that a mechanic can specialize in only Hondas, Toyotas or both and make a good living. So much for the superior reliability.
Around Toronto, the indy business that specializes in Toyotas and Hondas is booming. Visit any of the Japanese car dealers and their service bays are full. Yet you still hear that these cars go on nothing but oil and tire changes or that the local indy shops see nothing but domestic vehicles.
Some of it used to be true simply due to the fact that during 80s, 90s and early 2000s Honda and Toyota had a very small market share, the overwhelming majority of vehicles on the road were domestic. It should not take a genius to figure out that if you have more domestic cars on the road, more of them will be seen in service bays.
Now that Japanese managed to take a good portion of the market share, you see them being fixed and the business is so good that a mechanic can specialize in only Hondas, Toyotas or both and make a good living. So much for the superior reliability.
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Well, at least when a foreign owned car is built here you are better off wrt to parts as follows:
1.) part suppliers tend to be a high percentage US
2.) better control of origin. For example when I bring a complete Kia in on a ship - how hard would it be to determine what parts came from North Korea ?
1.) part suppliers tend to be a high percentage US
2.) better control of origin. For example when I bring a complete Kia in on a ship - how hard would it be to determine what parts came from North Korea ?
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Originally Posted By: Indydriver
Originally Posted By: TWG1572
Originally Posted By: Silverado12
The fat cats may not care, but the guy who works in the factory sure appreciates you buying American. FWIW all my domestics have been reliable.
I've never understood this logic. I drive a Japanese truck. That truck was built by American workers in Smyrna, TN. It may have been true 30 years ago that buying an American brand meant that it was built by American workers, but that's not the case anymore. We live in a global economy.
I don't think we can paint with such broad brush strokes anymore. That's my only point. I've owned both American and Japanese cars, and have nothing bad to say about either. But I've always selected vehicles based on need/reviews, not manufacturer.
And in what way is that different then American companies? Do you honestly think that American companies with factories in other countries have a greater social responsibility then let's say a Japanese company in the US has?
Just so you know, the profits from American-built, Japanese owned go back to Tokyo. I worked for a Japanese owned company for 25 years and I can tell you they don't give a flyingfornication about American workers-we are considered disposable tools.
Originally Posted By: TWG1572
Originally Posted By: Silverado12
The fat cats may not care, but the guy who works in the factory sure appreciates you buying American. FWIW all my domestics have been reliable.
I've never understood this logic. I drive a Japanese truck. That truck was built by American workers in Smyrna, TN. It may have been true 30 years ago that buying an American brand meant that it was built by American workers, but that's not the case anymore. We live in a global economy.
I don't think we can paint with such broad brush strokes anymore. That's my only point. I've owned both American and Japanese cars, and have nothing bad to say about either. But I've always selected vehicles based on need/reviews, not manufacturer.
And in what way is that different then American companies? Do you honestly think that American companies with factories in other countries have a greater social responsibility then let's say a Japanese company in the US has?
Just so you know, the profits from American-built, Japanese owned go back to Tokyo. I worked for a Japanese owned company for 25 years and I can tell you they don't give a flyingfornication about American workers-we are considered disposable tools.
Originally Posted By: CKN
Originally Posted By: 2004tdigls
GM does not make quality vehicles
(former owner of a pontiac sunbird and gmc sonoma) , both vehicles were biodegradable garbage
remember GM is the company that allowed defective ignitions to kill over 100 people, and they knew as early as 2001 that the ignition switches were dangerous but just kept installing them in cars
http://fortune.com/2015/08/24/feinberg-gm-faulty-ignition-switch/
http://blog.caranddriver.com/gm-ignition-switch-review-complete-124-fatalities-274-injuries/
in my personal opinion, it looks good on them
You must not have been around for this-
Pinto Exploding Gas tanks
Or, how about the Toyota sudden acceleration fiasco?
Point is-many auto makers have had their turn at producing "killer cars".
My dad had a Mercury Grand Marquis years ago. Was kind of like a decked out Crown Vic. Super smooth. One day that car decided to take off while we were idled looking at a fishing spot. It was up against a tree smoking the tires for almost 20 minutes till he somehow got it turned off. Never knew why, but he never stepped foot in that car again.
Originally Posted By: 2004tdigls
GM does not make quality vehicles
(former owner of a pontiac sunbird and gmc sonoma) , both vehicles were biodegradable garbage
remember GM is the company that allowed defective ignitions to kill over 100 people, and they knew as early as 2001 that the ignition switches were dangerous but just kept installing them in cars
http://fortune.com/2015/08/24/feinberg-gm-faulty-ignition-switch/
http://blog.caranddriver.com/gm-ignition-switch-review-complete-124-fatalities-274-injuries/
in my personal opinion, it looks good on them
You must not have been around for this-
Pinto Exploding Gas tanks
Or, how about the Toyota sudden acceleration fiasco?
Point is-many auto makers have had their turn at producing "killer cars".
My dad had a Mercury Grand Marquis years ago. Was kind of like a decked out Crown Vic. Super smooth. One day that car decided to take off while we were idled looking at a fishing spot. It was up against a tree smoking the tires for almost 20 minutes till he somehow got it turned off. Never knew why, but he never stepped foot in that car again.
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