Getting Started In Aviation?

Bror Jace · Mar 5, 2003

I thought I’d start a thread about getting started in aviation (in general). I’ve been a fan of nearly anything that flies all my life and am realizing that A) I’m not getting any younger and B) I have a decent job right now which finally allows me to pursue some aviation-related activities … although I won’t be buying my own Piper Saratoga anytime soon.

So, whether you have some advice as to how a person might get started in aviation today or wanna tell your own story of how you did it decades ago, this is the place.

How about some fundamental “dos” and “don’ts?” Best to start with an ultralight or rent something more substantial for "real" lessons instead? Any planes/ultralights you think are particularly good for beginners? Any to avoid? Are powered parachutes or paragliders (PPCs - PPGs) ‘real’ flying or more like a motorized hot air balloon ride? Is it worth joining a local club even if you have done nothing else yet?

I just want to fly recreationally. I assume people who are serious about getting a commercial license have a better idea of what route to take.

I’m sure all submissions will be of interest to someone … maybe even me.

--- Bror Jace

Drew99GT · Mar 5, 2003

I'm nearly finished completing my private license. It really depends on where you want to go with it. If you have no intention of using an aircraft for cross country or regular flying, obtaining your recreational license first might be the best option. That rating allows you to fly into smaller airports that are not under air traffic control. You still can fly around your area and have a blast without the worries of having to take off and land in heavy traffic. It does limit your access or ability to land at larger, "controller" controlled airports.

The most important thing I've learned is to find an instructor who you like and who tailors instrucion around YOU. Talk to people around your area and you'll find out which FBO's are known for great instruction etc. It's so much funner and easier to do if you don't have any anxiety whatsoever about how your instructor is treating you.

Drew99GT · Mar 5, 2003

Also, about what type of aircraft to rent etc. That should all be left to the instructor to decide. You'll start out with Cessna 172's etc if your lucky, or end up with a 120 hp POS Cessna 150 like I did for many instructional sessions. Eventually, your FBO will allow you to take better aircraft up for lessons. I trained often in a Piper Cherokee which was fuel injected etc and much more high performance and it was so much easier to fly than the older Cessnas. Also, I wouldn't look to hard into ultralights etc. if that's not exactly what you want to do. If you want to be able to fly around in a good ol fixed wing aircraft, start with your basic private license or your recreational license. If you start with ultralights and then want to move into regulr aircraft, you'll be essentially starting from scratch, even with loggable hours I believe.

BOBISTHEOILGUY · Mar 6, 2003

Take the time to goto the local airport and check out some of the schools. For a min fee, you can actually have a CFI(certified flight Instructor) take you out, and let you fly for .25-1 hour, see if you like them, the plane, the price and see if you really want to persue it. Like myself, I had the money, not the time, then I had the time and not the money, then I sold my business, had the time and money so 16hrs later I was solo'ing in a 172.

One thing to do is get your ground school out of the way. Most will get in, do all the flying but have a hard time getting the ground school out. American Flyers offers a weekend cram course, that you take fri-sun, take the test, and then your done with that part. Now, obviously it isn't near as comprehensive as normal ground school, but it is fast and lets you focus on your flying. As you fly, You'll start to learn how to apply more of what ground school offered and trained you for as well. Not to mention, it was cheaper than the normal one on one ground school instruction.

Myself, I have been big boned all my life, so with my wieght/ hieght, added to the instructor, a 150 was not enough plane to fly with so I learned on a 172 and a piper tamahawk(also known as a tramahawk high tail wing). Both have the same flight charateristics so no need to learn different approach speeds and such. The thing I like about the low wing piper, it settles to the ground faster, unlike the 172 floats down the runway forever which is a very forgiving plane is an excellent one to learn in. The 172 takes off by itself, and loves to fly, so it makes a great starter plane to learn in.

One of the things I strongly believe in is that once you get into "under the hood" or instrument flying, most times they only teach you on basic turn around manuvers so to getout of a fog in condition, but reading a lot of air crash reports, aside from people running out of fuel, getting socked in was the second problem. Fog will sock in from behind as well as front, so to just learn to manuver around isn't enough IMO. I made my instructor take me though actual IFR control landings so I had some idea of what to expect if I had ever got socked in, I knew what inner and outter markers was and glide slope and ifr requirements for proper ifr landings. You hope you never get into that, but, better be prepaired than to learn it the hard way.

Another thing I had them do is a grass field landing. This in itself is totally different that actual pavement. Where We did it, they had pine trees and it was a hot day so lift was slightly less than perfect. One thing I learned is when taking off, where normally you stop before rolling onto the runway, you don't do this, as the resistance of the grass runway will drag your speed down considerably so when taxing to the run way, you don't stop but roll onto the runway and start applying power so to take advantage of the momentum.

Basicly, In a nutshell, it IMO is best to get good instruction and take the extra time and actually prepare further than min's as it may save your life.

I can't tell you how much fun I have when in one, but go out and do a test flight as suggested before, and you'll be hooked. You'll abandon us here at the board and only find you at the airport just drooling at all the planes, particularly the private jets, and if you get a chance you have to try a helo. What a difference that is when flying. I had the opertunity to fly a small 2seater glass bubble recip engine, and it was cool.

Anyway, have fun. hope that helps.

There is an aviation safety magazine available which you should get so you can learn what mistakes not to make as they explain what happen to other crashes in this. One other thing I noticed in that is that a lot are from home builts, so again, this supports learning from the standard single engines to start with.

Next thing I'll know you'll have done that and be working on your class A CDL lic, like I did, now a private pilot, and a lic'd CDL truck driver, both of which I always wanted to try and I finally did it.

TheLoneRanger · Mar 6, 2003

Bror, after you get a couple hours in, and decide flying's for you, be sure and get your medical certificate. You will need a third class medical for a private license, and it's pretty basic for hearing, eyesight, no heart problems, etc.
It would be a shame after spending a lot of money on training, to find you have a medical problem that keeps you out of the cockpit.

AOPA (Airplane Owners and Pilots Association) is a good organization to join, and their monthly magazine contains a wealth of information.

Terry · Mar 7, 2003

Consider checking out the Civil Air Patrol. Find a unit that has a aircraft attached to it and help local youngsters discover flying also.

I started flying in CAP at 14 in a military 0-1 Birddog, what a great airplane to learn in !

I then joined the Indiana University Flying club to continue my basic ratings.

Checkout the universities in your area for a low cost alternative for learning to fly.

The fingerlakes area you live in has lots of colleges to choose from.

JohnTDI · Mar 9, 2003

Bror,
You might want to check out www.pilotpointer.com, www.avweb.com, www.aopa.org for starters. These have tons of information, particularly the aopa; they can get your ontrack to your license.

I'm a flying enthousiast with 1700+ hours in more than 30+ types of airplanes, i gave flight instruction for 6 years before devoting myself to air(kit)plane building (with diesel engines, that is)

John

[ March 10, 2003, 01:28 AM: Message edited by: JohnTDI ]

Drew99GT · Mar 11, 2003

John, you build kit planes? Awesome!! I've seen a few kit planes that use 20 hp briggs/stratton lawn mower engines that are just incredible, fully aerobatic, cruise at 150 etc. They only seat one, but imagine carrying your plane out to your street in front of your house and just flying away. I will own one of those tiny little planes in my lifetime

Terry · Mar 12, 2003

After 10,000 + flight hours I just can't warm up to the ultralights. I figure I have used up all my extra lives !

Honestly I am ignorant about the newer setups Bror, but don't take any chances if you go that way. Being inverted with your wings peeled back behind you is not the time to reconsider your choice.

OneQuartLow · Mar 12, 2003

My only qualification is in hang gliding, but I understand ultralights are similar with regard to safety. Take them seriously, get a good ballistic shute, and it's as safe as any hardwing. Careless and untrained folk make up most of the statistics, and there are more of them with these craft due to the lower startup barriers.

Twenty years ago that was not the case but equipment has come a long way.

Bror Jace · Mar 12, 2003

Thanks to everyone who responded. I’ve been buried at work and have only posted here and there for the past week.

I plan on looking into the CAP and other local groups when the weather breaks and I visit the Schenectady airport. They have an air museum there …

http://www.geocities.com/wl_emery/index.html

… and I’m pretty sure they’ll have information on local flight instruction.

But, I was surprised to see that not a single respondent had any encouraging remarks regarding ultralights. I always assumed this was a great way to get involved in aviation on a budget.

Is there a bias among fully qualified pilots against the frail, bugs-in-your-teeth plumber’s dreams? Is it similar to the way a motorcycle rider might look at some goof putting along on a Honda scooter?

My goal is not to be a commercial pilot and I can’t imagine owning my own airplane so I wasn’t looking at becoming an ultralight pilot as necessarily a stepping stone to flying something more substantial … say, an Incom T-65 X-wing.

--- Bror Jace

Jimbo · Mar 12, 2003

Another alternative will hopefully be coming along soon, the pending Sport Pilot/Light-sport Aircraft rule. As proposed, this rating will not requre a medical, only a driver's license. The aircraft will be more substantial than Ultralights, but not as big as current factory-built airplanes.

www.eaa.org is a good source of information.

Bror Jace · Mar 16, 2003

"After 10,000+ flight hours I just can't warm up to the ultralights."

Terry, I thought that might be the case … but you never know. No matter how sophisticated one might get in one area of endeavor, many appreciate a back-to-basics approach. And if there’s one thing you can say about ultralights, it’s they’re pretty basic.

I know professional F1 & CART racecar drivers will jump in a shifter kart now and then, Tony Stewart comes to this area and runs dirt modifieds once or twice each year (a step down from his Winston Cup car, I’m sure), paintball players I know who have $1,500+ electro-pneumatic selective-fire guns like to revert back to playing with
“Being inverted with your wings peeled back behind you is not the time to reconsider your choice.”

Um, I’ll try to avoid that.

However, did any of you catch the recent Junkyard Wars episode when they built antique planes out of (mostly) scrap materials? There were three teams from France (I know, I know

) Britain and the USA. The Americans built some oddball pusher which barely got off the ground after a great deal of tinkering. The French built a Bleriot (sp?) monoplane which flew … akthough not spectacularly. The Brits built a biplane which flew like it was a commercially produced kit plane. All had to be approved by the FAA before they were flown. Just a fabulous 2 hour show ... featuring some neat tinkerin’ and 3 seriously brave pilots.

“Take (ultralights) seriously, get a good ballistic ’shute …”

Are ballistic parachutes becoming standard on these things? I like the idea: if your finicky 2-stroke motor conks out on you, just pull the chord and float safely to the ground, hopefully with little or no damage. No need to always be within gliding distance of a runway, etc … unless of course, your ‘chute fails and you always have to expect the unexpected. Like the Boy Scouts motto: “Be Prepared.”

“Careless and untrained folk make up most of the statistics, and there are more of them with (ultralights) due to the lower startup barriers.”

Noted. However, I like to think of yahoos with dangerous toys as Darwin at work. We do so much to artificially keep millions dumbf---s alive these days … gotta cleanse the gene pool somehow.

Best we can do is to minimize the collateral damage these clowns cause as they make their final exit.

Jimbo, I understand that they want to change the sport flyer/experimental, etc … classifications as I see that talked about in Ultraflight and other magazines. I guess I’ll learn more about this as things develop. I’ll also read more on the FAA and all the other websites mentioned.

--- Bror Jace

OneQuartLow · Mar 16, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by Bror Jace:
...However, did any of you catch the recent Junkyard Wars episode ...?...

That was an excellent episode. I grew tired of the goofy arena games with bickering team leaders & experts. Nice to see some serious work. It was wonderful to see the performance of that British entry.

quote:

Are ballistic parachutes becoming standard on these things?

When I got out of things (time/money) they weren't standard but were the smart person's life-vest. IMO they should be considered standard. I like it that way so designs can vary and avoid the costs of bureaucracy. The downside is someone not buying one because they can barely afford the craft and put off buying their shute.

quote:

I like the idea: if your finicky 2-stroke motor conks out on you, just pull the chord and float safely to the ground, hopefully with little or no damage. No need to always be within gliding distance of a runway,

Firing the shute is a last defense. It's less "floating" than a controlled fall, and damage is more likely than not. Your glide ratio should be enough unless approaching some point of no return.

What's a runway?

quote:

Noted. However, I like to think of yahoos with dangerous toys as Darwin at work. ...

Amen.

Cujet · Jun 7, 2003

Bror, as a pilot and A+P mechanic I would suggest you stay with proven certified aircraft. In my mind there is a reason that many homebuilts like the original hot rod Lancair and others do not make certification. By the time the FAA gets done with the aircraft the performance is less and the safety is better. I used to be heavily involved in homebuilt and experimental aircraft. I lost a number of friends and have changed my mind, big time. Heck the ultralight I used to own went down twice!

At one time I was involved in jet powered hombuilt aircraft. I like to think I saw the light, I learned from others, the deaths and the pain the families are put through.

For training, flying a 172 is safe, probably the safest. They are great training aircraft and most of the bugs are worked out. Every step away from a 172 brings the risk up slightly, with few exceptions. As a general rule, maintenance/mechanical problems are a factor in about 50% of all fatal crashes. Often the pilot does not handle them properly. So, make sure to preflight like the best mechanic in the world. Fly only top notch equipment. Make sure the fuel is safe. And get proper training, stay current and proficient. Live at the airport for a while. Even consider getting glider and aerobatic training. It will open your eyes.

I maintain and often get to fly the following aircraft:

Gulfstream GV
Pilatus PC-12
Eurocopter EC135 (2ea.)
Extra 300L (2ea.)
DG1000 glider
DG808B motorglider

Chris

airbus · Jun 14, 2005

I live in Canada,so I can't really be specific enough to be any help to you in the U.S. However I can "bore" you with my own "tortuous" career path culminating in a Airline Transport Pilot Licence with Canada's Major airline. I started flying in 1984,at the age 19. I knew since I was 6 years old that I wanted to be a "airline pilot". I tried the airforce but did not meet there strict vision requirements (personally I think they are ridiculous). I initially started off as a glider student/pilot (never went solo). I quit after 3 lessons realizing that my hard earned money was better spent in powered flight. I did my private,commercial,multi-engine,multi-engine instrument rating and flight instructor rating at the Ottawa flying club in Ottawa,canada.Its not a colledge. Total cost $14,000 canadian 1985 dollars. Instructed for 2 years to build time. Prior to gaining employment with my current employer,it took 16 years,10,000 hours and 8 aviation stepping stone (not to mention 5 bankrupt airlines) to get where I am know. Currently I am flying first-oficer 9co-pilot) on Airbus A320 based out of Montreal,Quebec but living in Ottawa (thats why my car has 175000 miles and its a 2001 Honda). Just after gaining empl.oyment with Canada's "premiere" airline,the whole airline industry collapsed overnight. Everything went "walmart" (pricing,service,salaries). My employer shortly filed for CCAA (chapter 11). Pilots were laid of and the lucky one took up to a 50% (not 5%) pay cut due to being "bumped" off larger aircraft to lower rated flying positions. My employer has subsequently exited successfully from ccaa (chp 11) but had to reinvent itself. Gone are the "glory days" of high paid pilots. I am now 40 years old with 14,000 hours and wondering if I made a good carrer decision (the smarter ones figured it out faster than me). Airline travel is strictly a "commodity" and people are not willing to pay what they used to to fly. My advice would be to strictly do it as a hobby as long as you are able to fly enough to maintain a safe standard. I would highly recomend that you get a Instrument rating and keep it current (look what happened to JFK jr). Do I still like flying -yes ,I love it! I am so fortunate to have "made it" to the "big leagues" but I am not sure that I will continue in this career. I hope this helps you out and I hope I didn't come across as a braggart.

flyboy4947 · Jun 15, 2005

Amen to the certified aircraft unless you are a seasoned homebuilder and really know your stuff. Even then they can bite you. 4000 ahours ina Cessna 180 and its hard to beat a solid Wichita aircraft, the 172 is good to learn in, I learned in a Cessna 140, always flown tailwheel and it keeps you on your toes all the time! Be safe so you an enjoy a great experience.

Steve S · Jun 18, 2005

Planes are amazing, I'll go for a ride any time . I have never been interested in learning how to fly but I would have to say flying a heavy would be a genuine rush ,so big and powerful. I had a friend retired a DC10 captain . He had the passion ,liked things big and powerful . Costs alot to learn,and the kid next door" actually a fine young man" always wanted to become a Naval aviator.Went to Annapolis and is now a Marine pilot. Get a plan and go for it. Better to do something you love and be happy than something you don't like to do . Money is second.

BOBISTHEOILGUY · Jun 19, 2005

I agree. I've seen more home builts go down. main reason is the home builder is the api certified mechanic and does his/her own inspection and the can overlook their own misakes when they make it themselves. therefore they go up with those mistakes and find themselves in a bad position in the air because they overlooked thier mistakes.

as for ultra light, again it is the homebuilder that inspects the plane and I've seen where the cable broke and the wings collapes and the guy went straight down a died. had he a parachute wouldn't help him as he just took off and didn't have enough hight. could have been in a plane and still would have the same problem but would he inspected the same? I just don't trust a home built the same if the same person who built the plane is responseabe for preflight inspection. alot of times you'll catch things if you don't have anything for building it.

after reading accident reports most where out of gas, flying to low due to fog, and homebuilts.

that is my take on homebuilts.

also, I lived in an airport, had one person get into his 150 with a parachute on. I never flown with this guy as I figured he was ready to bail if he had any problem as opposed to bringing the plane down. just so you know, the cess 150 can be flown with no engine once in the air.

bob

Blokey · Jun 21, 2005

I did my private pilot training when I lived in CT back in '94; I flew C152s out of Sikorsky Memorial Airport (BDR). Did my short x-country to Westerly, RI (easy navigation: land on the left, water on the right and vice versa coming back). Did my long x-country to NH, upstate NY and back.

My night proficiency flight was a blast. It was a crystal clear, cool night in April; flew out of BDR to the Tappan Zee bridge, headed down to NYC along the Hudson river, flew over the GW bridge below the JFK TCA, circled the Statue of Liberty three times at about 400' waiting for LGA clearance and up the East river to the LI sound coast back to BDR (the BDR airport beacon was visible from LGA). Needless to say, that flight won't happen again for a looooong time, if ever.

I did the Private pilot license because I always loved airplanes since I was a kid (it started when our family was visited by a door-to-door World Book encyclopedia salesman who gave me a reprint of the aircraft section of Vol. 1). I also did it as a personal challenge. I don't have the time or money to go further (instrument, multi-engine, etc.), I'm just happy to have achieved the Private Pilot ticket.

Getting Started In Aviation?

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