Demand would not be what it is now if it weren't for the sheer amount of gas hogs on the road.
Gas station owner protest
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Demand would not be what it is now if it weren't for the sheer amount of gas hogs on the road.
Short term, a reduction in demand will change prices. However, as populations grow, the demand will increase.
I do agree that we would only delay this increase by driving more fuel efficient vehicles. However, it does make a difference.
I do agree that we would only delay this increase by driving more fuel efficient vehicles. However, it does make a difference.
No offense to anyone, but the dual-cab dually extra-big road hog things seem (in my gut opinion) to be the least efficient mode of transportation for a single individule. They are more common than Hybrids on the road here.
However, remember that if everyone drove more fuel efficient vehicles, the bottom line impact will be less regardless of the price point. This also may mean that inflation numbers would be lower despite rising energy prices - each household would be affected less by the trend.
One can scream "you can't tell me what to drive" all you want, but the fact is that the west is being very wasteful as a whole. There are a lot of things that can be done to help both the pollution and supply issues without changing your choice of vehicle and many people are doing NONE of them. (plan your route, carpool, public transit for work, maintain your vehicle so it's as efficient and clean as possible, energy efficient appliances, energy star light bulbs, programmable thermostats, water conserving laundry machines, close your blinds, plant trees to shade your house in summer, better insulation, turn the lights and TV off when you leave the room, don't idle your car to warm it up, don't sit in the parking lot idling etc...etc...etc...)
One can scream "you can't tell me what to drive" all you want, but the fact is that the west is being very wasteful as a whole. There are a lot of things that can be done to help both the pollution and supply issues without changing your choice of vehicle and many people are doing NONE of them. (plan your route, carpool, public transit for work, maintain your vehicle so it's as efficient and clean as possible, energy efficient appliances, energy star light bulbs, programmable thermostats, water conserving laundry machines, close your blinds, plant trees to shade your house in summer, better insulation, turn the lights and TV off when you leave the room, don't idle your car to warm it up, don't sit in the parking lot idling etc...etc...etc...)
What cracks me up is the amount of foolish nearsightedness and finger pointing in this thread. Are people really this ignorant?
We look everywhere to point our fingers for high fuel prices. Nobody wants to believe that YOU YOURSELF are causing the high fuel prices.
Like any product, if noone buys it, it'll end up cheap on the clearance rack. Quit demanding and using the fuel, it'll get cheaper.
And yes, its pretty stooopid to drive halfway across a city to buy a soda to support a gas station that stops the pumps for a day.
And yes, you're a frigging hyprocrite if you #@$%! about fuel prices while driving stoopidly fast, racing to redlights and stop signs, and complaining about your horrible MPG that your poorly maintained tank rewards you with.
Its still a relatively freedom of choice country. Do what you want. But, don't complain about the end result.
As long as we are wasteful, we will be reminded everytime we fill up at the pumps. We tend not to notice all the other energy that we waste because of the enjoyment factor. Food, heat, AC, hot water, electricity......are no different. At what gas price does the enjoyment factor of owning an SUV, or driving fast, suddenly fade away?
Also notice that if the price gets too high, the what, where, when, & why habits will be changed. When we're forced to change habits, we become crybabies. The argument that we'll do whatever we want is bogus. We do what we can afford to. When we can't can't afford to, we'll adjust.
The days, when more and more can't afford to anymore, are coming.
We look everywhere to point our fingers for high fuel prices. Nobody wants to believe that YOU YOURSELF are causing the high fuel prices.
Like any product, if noone buys it, it'll end up cheap on the clearance rack. Quit demanding and using the fuel, it'll get cheaper.
And yes, its pretty stooopid to drive halfway across a city to buy a soda to support a gas station that stops the pumps for a day.
And yes, you're a frigging hyprocrite if you #@$%! about fuel prices while driving stoopidly fast, racing to redlights and stop signs, and complaining about your horrible MPG that your poorly maintained tank rewards you with.
Its still a relatively freedom of choice country. Do what you want. But, don't complain about the end result.
As long as we are wasteful, we will be reminded everytime we fill up at the pumps. We tend not to notice all the other energy that we waste because of the enjoyment factor. Food, heat, AC, hot water, electricity......are no different. At what gas price does the enjoyment factor of owning an SUV, or driving fast, suddenly fade away?
Also notice that if the price gets too high, the what, where, when, & why habits will be changed. When we're forced to change habits, we become crybabies. The argument that we'll do whatever we want is bogus. We do what we can afford to. When we can't can't afford to, we'll adjust.
The days, when more and more can't afford to anymore, are coming.
Perfectly written! Demand causes price, not magic forces in the sky. We are ALL (sometimes myself even) wasteful of all of our resources and we are paying for it.
John
You're assuming that everyone would drive the same regardless. If gas prices go down, people will drive more, even if they all have hybrids. This will increase demand, which will increase price, and the cycle continues. This is why I say that demand will NOT go down (long term) in any case. The only way to reduce price (long or short term) is to increase supply, or cut the taxes.
Yes, capitalism/market forces at work.
JHZR2
Staff member
How much more will people really drive, simply because gas is cheap???
I suspect not much more. Most peoples' gasoline/diesel usage for the overwhelming part is for commuting and day-to-day activity, NOT discretionary usage.
Compared to yearly consumption, the amount spent/gallons used for vacations, roadtrips and extra outings is quite small... 10% maybe? Not a whole lot in the big picture.
Since gas has gone up, have people slowed down? not much... I can't assume that the inverse will occur if gas was cheaper. Since gas has gone up, have less people been on the road? nope, so I can't assume that the inverse is the case there either.
So where is all this extra use coming from? An extra trip to see the family half a country away? Chances are that would have happened, if it was going to happen, regardless.
My hypothesis is that not much difference will occur in usage patterns, regardless of price (up to some critical point, which likely is in excess of $5).
What has not apparently happened much is that people bag their summer vacation, their anniversary trip to Paris, etc., simply because the travel there is more expensive because of fuel prices. At this point, they are willing to pay for this, and are not changing their usage profile because of higher prices - this stuff is standard, and relatively inflexible. And, since people are willing to still go, willing to still drive on vacation, etc., still willing to show their style by driving thirstier vehicles, etc., this is why the prices can be traded higher and higher - because joe blow consumer is willing to pay, and so they can be taken advantage of. So long as we continue the insustainable credit-based purchasing, where things continue and are too wonderful to pass up (thus resulting in debt to the average consumer), smart businesses, traders, etc. will keep taking advantage, charging higher and higher prices - if the consumer wants thirstier vehicles and more use, and is willing to sell their sould for it, then why not gouge them more and more for it??? The market will accept it.
It is only the financially responsible (regardless of what vehicle type they drive) that care so much about bottom line (regardless of how much $$$ they have) that they make a fuss. The average person that makes the bulk oof society is too disconnected to do anything but be a sheep while not understanding the realities of their behaviors.
Remember, none of this is really about the people that TRULY can afford it (those who can pay off their house, hold no debt, have full savings for retirement, etc.). The stability of a socierty is based upon the fact that only a small population of its citizens are doing something that is wrong, incorrect, stealing, unsustainable, etc. In this case, the rich who can truly afford overconsumption in an unsustainable way make up only a tiny fraction of the population. The problem is that average joe consumer now feels entitled and deservant of taking part in activites that are not sustainable, and that they cannot afford. When a bulk fo the population does this, now 50-60% of people are doing the unsustainable behavior, not just 5 or 6%... That makes a BIG difference on how society can be leverqaged upon, taken advantage of, and how long unsustainable activities can last... bringing pending doom much closer.
JMH
Safety is one of the myths of many truck based suv's. Most of these types of vehicles are not required to meet automotive crash standards. If you can find accurate crash tests that prove otherwise, then you have a valid reason to buy one. Otherwise, you probably should be driving a car or a car based vehicle.
JHZR2
Staff member
IMO, its a 50/50 thing... If I was T-boning another driver in an accident, Id probably rather be in an SUV, so Im a bit higher up and have a frame and good distance from the impact...
If I was being t-boned by another vehicle, I'd rather NOT be in an SUV, because the chances of flipping seem to be an added level of danger, particularly if injured and exit is a necessity.
Funny how cars seem to get the IIHS 'best ever' type records for safety, not the trucks... I guess the issue is that trucks are designed for compression down and tension along the frame, and that limits the ability to protect in other angles of attack, etc.
Just a thought...
JMH
Actually, only one, increase supply. If you cut taxes, as you stated, demand will rise as the price has dropped.
By adding supply, demand will increase, but prices will not increase as much as if supply stays the same.
However, how sustainable is increasing supply. If profits are not there for the oil companies, there will be little incentive to add capacity, thus dropping supply.
It's all related. If you increase supply, prices will initially drop and then demand increase.
If you drop prices, demand will increase, then supplies drop, followed by increases in price as shortages occur. As prices rise, there is more incentive to bring more fuel into the market, such as importing finished gasoline, instead of just crude oil.
Perhaps the solution to two problems is to build refineries in Mexico. That keeps the environmental folks here happier as NIMBY is at work when it comes to building refineries. If Mexico has good paying refinery jobs, there is less incentive for Mexicans to cross the border.
Plus, we get more refinery capacity.
If I had the cash, I'd be looking at building refineries in Mexico to produce products for an ever increasing world demand.
I think people should boycott Exxon/Mobil as they said at their recent stockholder's meeting that their core business is refining gas and they will not get into renewable energy. The board of directors recommended against some proposals on the ballot for renewable energy. They support some grants to Stanford Univ. for renewable energy research, but they are not looking into any products. They appear to be the only major oil company who is not looking into renewable energy as a business (with product development).
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Exactly. Why would you postpone or cancel a $1500-$5000 vacation for the sake of $100 more in fuel costs?? Save all kinds of money just not going to begin with. No one goes on vacation to save money. Where they go may be dictated by economics ..and the activities that they engage in may be too ..but the going kinda negates any sense of "savings" or "it's too expensive". Just avoid one upscale restaurant event or buy 3 less t-shirts (or 5 less $5.95 soft drinks in the plastic commemorative cup)
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