gas prices...

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Demand is down. Supply is up. Prices should be low.

Screw the world economy, why aren't we taking care of ourselves?

All the oil produced here should be subject to a HUGE export tax to force the greedy oil jerks to sell it here first.

Our "public servants" are not serving us.


Not just with oil but with everything economic are "public servants" seem to work for the same global traders who seem intent on putting America and Americans at every economic disadvantage rather than taking care of ourselves. Don't you know it's protectionism, "socialism" and even exenophobia (despite Americans are of many ethnicities) for America too look after itself first but A-okay for every other country to do that

?

 

[subiedriver]

Gas is already $5/gallon in L.A. It was on fox news last night. California's avererage is $4.30/gallon.

 

[mechanicx]

I wonder what is the reason for gas in California being about 30% higher? If they can charge $5/gal there, why not everywhere?

 

[kkreit01]

It's around $3.50ish here, and on the rise. I guess it's a good thing I traded off the Hemi. I gained +5mpg going to the Pentastar,

 

[PZR2874]

Originally Posted By: subiedriver
Gas is already $5/gallon in L.A. It was on fox news last night. California's avererage is $4.30/gallon.


And that's for CA pee-water (go figure)

It's up to 3.50 here in SA

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: lexus114
This is all a big political game, thats all it is. Watch how fast it comes down as we get closer to the election.

That's kind of the scary thing about your unlimited election spending by companies... What kind of deals will each side offer the oil companies to manipulate the fuel prices, either up or down?
Its easy to have a problem at a refinery...

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I wonder what is the reason for gas in California being about 30% higher? If they can charge $5/gal there, why not everywhere?

Special/Unique formula that costs about 15-20 cents a gallon more to produce and higher tax than elsewhere.

 

[Drew2000]

Many folks like to "hate" the oil companies, but the reality is that margins are pretty lousy considering the cap-ex required to operate.

Refining is often a money-losing operation. Hess is shutting down it's giant Hovensa refinery in St. Croix this month after losing $1.3 billion over the past few years. That's 500,000 barrels of daily refinery capacity for the east coast of the US gone. Hovensa Closing
Sunoco is shutting several refineries in PA as well. Around 18 refineries in the US and Europe have shut down in the past year.
Plus, the out of control EPA requires more than a dozen "botique" blends of gasoline for different areas of the US that can't be cross-shipped to other areas and have made refining regulations so cumbersome, that it's easier to shut down older refineries than invest billions on upgrades with a poor chance of ever recovering the costs.

 

[javacontour]

Can't think this way.

One could ask the same question with respect to importing crude oil. Why aren't we just using what we have, rather than going all over the world hoping to buy crude others have?

Since we as a nation won't reduce our usage to match what we can currently supply, we depend on the same global economy to provide the crude oil we desire.

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Demand is down. Supply is up. Prices should be low.

Screw the world economy, why aren't we taking care of ourselves?

All the oil produced here should be subject to a HUGE export tax to force the greedy oil jerks to sell it here first.

Our "public servants" are not serving us.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: Drew2000
Many folks like to "hate" the oil companies, but the reality is that margins are pretty lousy considering the cap-ex required to operate.

Refining is often a money-losing operation. Hess is shutting down it's giant Hovensa refinery in St. Croix this month after losing $1.3 billion over the past few years. That's 500,000 barrels of daily refinery capacity for the east coast of the US gone. Hovensa Closing
Sunoco is shutting several refineries in PA as well. Around 18 refineries in the US and Europe have shut down in the past year.
Plus, the out of control EPA requires more than a dozen "botique" blends of gasoline for different areas of the US that can't be cross-shipped to other areas and have made refining regulations so cumbersome, that it's easier to shut down older refineries than invest billions on upgrades with a poor chance of ever recovering the costs.


No one has a problem with the refinery's (or gas staions either) mark up. Most of the price of gas at least 70% is going to crude prices and that's where the oil companies and whoever holds oil stock is making a killing.

 

[Win]

Originally Posted By: Jimmy9190

....so NBC news wonders why the price is so high. Maybe if there is enough media attention it can help to burst the speculators' gas bubble and prices will go back to normal again. Maybe.



NBc ought to know better than anybody. Mr. Obama made it clear when he was campaigning that energy prices would increase under his administration. I don't recall him using the word "skyrocket", but the was the word that became linked to his projected policies.

Really, everything that has been done since then, whether driving the dollar into the dirt through massive debt, cutting off drilling in the gulf, cancelling executed exploration leases, killing a pipeline, can have no effect other than to raise the cost of energy. Now, Iran is saber rattling. They are emboldenend and empowered by a weak foreign policy.

Anyway, the point is, it's not speculation - it's more like shooting fish in a barrel. Nothing is being done that can reduce the costs.

I view this as factual, not political. I saw the handwriting on the wall in November, 2008 - hence no V8 in my G8 bought three weeks after the election that month, or in any car since.

My margin on fuel today is about nine (9) cents, or about three (3) per cent return on my money. I may get into speculation - that's obviously where the money is in the business and don't have to hassle with taking possession of the stuff.

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: Jimmy9190

....so NBC news wonders why the price is so high. Maybe if there is enough media attention it can help to burst the speculators' gas bubble and prices will go back to normal again. Maybe.


I look at it as the speculators are trying to bring a new fold of investors in at the bottom of the pyramid, to buy them out after a cozy profit. This to me says the price is about to plummet. I'm figuring late spring/ early summer: rare, the pattern has been a spike that time. The mild winter and decreased consumption will help, and the dollar will still get stronger since we're less incompetent than Greece. The only variable is if jobs and the economy grow suddenly against anyone's predictions.

I'm timing my heating oil fill for Memorial Day or so.

 

[Jimmy9190]

It is illegal for oil companies to set gas prices at stations they do not own. Big Oil has ways to get around the law, however. They do that by controlling the prices at gas stations through the use of wholesale and zone pricing. Wholesale is the price that Big Oil sells its gas to retailers. The respective oil company sets the wholesale price the retailer pays for their branded gasoline. Wholesale pricing allows Big Oil to set a sort of limit on what the retailer can charge and also sets a lock on the profits that Big Oil receives from its branded gasoline. The retailer makes between 3 and 10 cents average profit on a gallon of gas. That is the only profit the retailer receives; he will make the majority of his profit from items purchased in his store such as beer, cigarettes, food, soda, candy etc.

Big Oil controls the prices and keeps the retailers in any given area from charging more because they and the retailers know that if the retailer tried to mark up the price per galllon, the retailer would soon be out of business. The retailer's profit stays exactly the same, between 3 to 10 cents per gallon. After taxes are paid on the gas, Big Oil keeps the rest of the margin on the gas. When prices go up, the retailer still only keeps his 3 to 10 cents per gallon, and Big Oil keeps the rest of the profit. Big Oil keeps the profit remainders no matter how high the price at the pump goes, and naturally, the higher the price at the pump, the more profit goes into Big Oil's pockets.

The oil business is all about profit and greed. Period. Big Oil will do whatever it thinks is necesary to ensure their profits stay at the levels they want. That includes price manipulation, employing full time speculators on their staff or to work in their interest, making the right contributions to oil-friendly candidates, and it also includes cutbacks and layoffs at refineries and idling of refineries. Closing down a refinery reduces the gas supply, therefore increasing prices and profits.

 

[javacontour]

They why is gas even traded in the commodities markets if prices are set as you say?

Prices are set when a buyer and a seller agree on a price. A seller can set any price they want, but if folks don't buy, eventually they will need to drop the price to move the product.

So if you don't like the price, don't buy. That will do a lot more than complaining on some message board.

Originally Posted By: Jimmy9190
It is illegal for oil companies to set gas prices at stations they do not own. Big Oil has ways to get around the law, however. They do that by controlling the prices at gas stations through the use of wholesale and zone pricing. Wholesale is the price that Big Oil sells its gas to retailers. The respective oil company sets the wholesale price the retailer pays for their branded gasoline. Wholesale pricing allows Big Oil to set a sort of limit on what the retailer can charge and also sets a lock on the profits that Big Oil receives from its branded gasoline. The retailer makes between 3 and 10 cents average profit on a gallon of gas. That is the only profit the retailer receives; he will make the majority of his profit from items purchased in his store such as beer, cigarettes, food, soda, candy etc.

Big Oil controls the prices and keeps the retailers in any given area from charging more because they and the retailers know that if the retailer tried to mark up the price per galllon, the retailer would soon be out of business. The retailer's profit stays exactly the same, between 3 to 10 cents per gallon. After taxes are paid on the gas, Big Oil keeps the rest of the margin on the gas. When prices go up, the retailer still only keeps his 3 to 10 cents per gallon, and Big Oil keeps the rest of the profit. Big Oil keeps the profit remainders no matter how high the price at the pump goes, and naturally, the higher the price at the pump, the more profit goes into Big Oil's pockets.

The oil business is all about profit and greed. Period. Big Oil will do whatever it thinks is necesary to ensure their profits stay at the levels they want. That includes price manipulation, employing full time speculators on their staff or to work in their interest, making the right contributions to oil-friendly candidates, and it also includes cutbacks and layoffs at refineries and idling of refineries. Closing down a refinery reduces the gas supply, therefore increasing prices and profits.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: Jimmy9190

The oil business is all about profit and greed. Period. Big Oil will do whatever it thinks is necesary to ensure their profits stay at the levels they want. That includes price manipulation ...

If oil company can control the price, then why the price of gasoline drop from a high of $3.50 (adjusted to today's dollars) in early 1981 to a low of around $1.30 in 1999 ? There was a very fast drop in 2008, from more than $4 to less than $2 in 6 months.

Source: zfacts.com/p/35.html

 

[Y_K]

Originally Posted By: javacontour
Prices are set when a buyer and a seller agree on a price.

Man, you are dangerous. If we keep going that way, some may quit Internet and start reading books, gather facts and school themselves a bit.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: Y_K
Originally Posted By: javacontour
Prices are set when a buyer and a seller agree on a price.

Man, you are dangerous. If we keep going that way, some may quit Internet and start reading books, gather facts and school themselves a bit.


I'm starting to side with the "take delivery" guys on the buyer and seller argument.

The silly financial instruments that exist allow naked short selling,and the de-vsluating of stocks by more stock being in circulation that were ever issued. Multiple times the US GDP circulating in derivatives...and nutso gold prices (static in some currencies)

It used to be that buying capacity to store gluts for profit in shortage provided stability in supply, now there's no such

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: javacontour
So if you don't like the price, don't buy. That will do a lot more than complaining on some message board.


If it were only that simple. In case you haven't noticed, our entire economy relies completely on commerce. Until someone can devise a way for people to travel to where they need to go, and for goods to get to the retailers without using fossil fuels, I'm afraid we're at the mercy of the oil barons. Sure, people could cut back by making fewer trips and driving more fuel efficient vehicles, but people have been doing that, in fact, U.S. demand is lower today than it's been in years, and look where it's gotten us...we're headed towards record high gas prices. The oil industry does manipulate the market and they will do whatever it takes to keep the record profits rolling in...

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
^ I am not seeing anyone discussing anything potentially positive about fuel prices.

Maybe because there are no positives to high fuel prices, potentially or otherwise.
Lots of positives to low prices though.

 

[Y_K]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
I'm starting to side with the "take delivery" guys on the buyer and seller argument.

You don't have to. The margin rules can be tightened up easily. Or have a choice of either more sizable margin or a delivery with the associated costs.
Regardless, the argument that the fuel prices are so high due to speculators does not hold water in my eyes. Speculators are akin to interventions: their effects on the market do not last and most of the time backfire.
We have a currency marketplace that has more volume in one day than NYSE in a year..