Fully formulated HDEO for non-emissions diesels

[Fabulous50s]

JASO DH-1 is what is called for. The DH-2 spec is said to supersede but the DH-2 spec is for DPF/DOC equipped engines so ash is the main concern.

Im intrested in an oil where wear is the main formulation not if it will harm a catalyst.

This is a tractor engine with no turbo, common rail injection, and no emissions equipment.

 

[Bighorn2500]

Didn’t you ask this already?

Thread 'JASO DH-1 oil for non-emissions diesel tractor'

Jan 30, 2023

My new Yanmar tractor specifies an oil meeting the JASO DH-1 spec. T6, my go to oil meets the DH-2 standard which is low ash for diesel engines with DPF. The DH-1 us a higg ash formula for non DPF engines.

What oils are available in the US which meet the DH-1? I've looked for a bit, and coming up empty.

• Fabulous50s
• Replies: 7
• Forum: Heavy Duty Engine Oil (HDEO) - Diesel Vehicles

 

[Foxtrot08]

No real reason to step back to a CI4+ oil. If anything, it would be a fairly enormous step back in terms of sludge protection to go back to a CI4 oil. Which is why they did the + then finally CJ4. (On to CK4)

So just stick with a CK4 oil really.

 

[Fabulous50s]

Didn’t you ask this already?

Thread 'JASO DH-1 oil for non-emissions diesel tractor'

Jan 30, 2023

My new Yanmar tractor specifies an oil meeting the JASO DH-1 spec. T6, my go to oil meets the DH-2 standard which is low ash for diesel engines with DPF. The DH-1 us a higg ash formula for non DPF engines.

What oils are available in the US which meet the DH-1? I've looked for a bit, and coming up empty.

• Fabulous50s
• Replies: 7
• Forum: Heavy Duty Engine Oil (HDEO) - Diesel Vehicles

Yes, but never got anywhere. I keep going down the rabbit hole of oils which are limited on ash. I have Amsoil SS in it now. But theor Marine diesel oil looks like a better oil. Looking for other opinions to not go boutique oil.

Torn down too many roller cam failures lately and really wonder if its oil that is the culprit. All of the big 3 have roller lifters fail now. Never used to be that way. Ford, GM, and Mopar all made roller cams which laster 200k+. What has changed? Oils with less additives, and that is happening with diesels too.

Too many rabbit holes and cam failures!

 

[Foxtrot08]

Yes, but never got anywhere. I keep going down the rabbit hole of oils which are limited on ash. I have Amsoil SS in it now. But theor Marine diesel oil looks like a better oil. Looking for other opinions to not go boutique oil.

Torn down too many roller cam failures lately and really wonder if its oil that is the culprit. All of the big 3 have roller lifters fail now. Never used to be that way. Ford, GM, and Mopar all made roller cams which laster 200k+. What has changed? Oils with less additives, and that is happening with diesels too.

Too many rabbit holes and cam failures!

Metallurgy changed.

I just had a cam failure in a fairly new MX13 in my fleet, 2019. We did the tear down this morning at my main truck shop.

I have ~10 other trucks with MX13s. I have about ~40 X15s. A mix of PX9 / ISL, power strokes, some newer Detroit’s and still over a dozen old CAT C15s, some older Detroit’s and Cummins engines.

I do oil analysis on all ~150 pieces of equipment. From 1948 international T6 crawler, 1969 D7, 1956 D4 7u, to a fairly new Case IH Maxxium Pro 140, nearly new Deere skid loaders and excavators.

The oils are generally fine. The surface finish (because of the quenching process) has changed. If anything, oils have vastly improved over the last 20 years - exceedingly so.

But, the quench process has gone down hill. I’ve seen what they call quench oil in Michigan. I can only imagine what they are in Mexico, China, etc.

That’s what’s changed as both, a professional fleet owner, a farmer and… a lubricants engineer.

 

[loneryder]

What is the Quenching Process?

 

[johnmyster]

Stock up on Delvac Extreme or Delo XSP 400 15w-40 and call it a day. Not worth the headache to track down something esoteric for your deleted/pre emissions motor because you think it might decrease wear rates 5%. I used to be a luddite but have been convinced that, aside from mistakes like CJ-4, the lubricant industry didn't voluntarily accept a step backwards on wear rates to get ash levels down. Lower ZDDP levels is not necessarily bad when taken in context.

Call CenPeCo, Driven, PDD, or Schaefers if you disagree.

LiquiMoly sells CF-4 and CG-4 oils if you want to be a real weirdo.

The cheap/easy button is just to change your oil more often to keep soot/fuel contamination down. And maybe use a better filter. And maybe a bypass filter if you have that mentality. And make sure you oil cooling is up to snuff.

This toast goes out to all the diesel junkies willing to spend 3x as much on boutique oils that promise 5% wear reduction, but they won't give up their +150 hp max effort tune with unreasonable egts.

 

[Fabulous50s]

Thank you all!

Just for fun and education I emailed Yanmar technical department about the DH-1 vs DH-2 spec. My manual states DH-2 in this machine which was originally equipped with a DPF (which was lost in a boating accident) and my other machine (same YOM) but IDI with no aftertreatment spec'd DH-1 or DH-2.

Yanmar said ULSD that we have is preferred to use DH-2.

This was really an educational thing for me and after changing 2 camshafts in a completely unrelated engine which ive owned since new and done 5k OCI but still ate 3 lobes/rollers.

This diesel uses flat tappets and pushrods like they have for 100 years.

 

[rollins.]

Several things to ponder on :

-it is virtually impossible to buy HDEO's of ACEA E4 and E7 treat levels in US (maybe as imports through marine shops,x3 the price). E4 and E7 are still valid ACEA categories,the need is there, the damand is present. One may think it is because of the crappy fuels in ROW here and there - well,fine.But the Euros are still a major producer and consumer.

-full SAPS ACEA A3/B3 ,OEM F-S 229.5...BMW LL-01 etc . and OEM full-SAPS HDEO caterogies like 228.3/.5 , Volvo VDS-3 and others are still alive despite the backwards-compatibility claims of the newer "eco" ones . European OTR trucks may see some high-sulphur fuel here and there in the ME (if they go there at all anymore)...but the passenger-cars will never smell anything higher in S than ULSD. Ah,and with the compulsory FAME content (5--7% min.)-werent't the newer categories presumably more tolerable to FAME? The Eurobureaucrats should come with this-let us ban all high-SAPS PC oils ("Becaaause, you see, there is no raison d'etre for them anymore.And..and they can do more harm to our unsuspectful constituents when used with %FAME!") .

-base oils and addpacks evolve, a 2025 CI-4 mixture would be quite away from a newly-introduced CI-4 twenty years ago (the hi-SAPS products and many OEM categories demands still get regularly "updated" -229.5 of 2007 is different than today's etc.)


XOM Euro Delvac line (all other major blenders have parallel ones..and the countless smaller "independent" ones ) :

https://www.mobil.eu/en-gb/lubrican...lvac/mobil-delvac-category-product-comparison


https://www.acea.auto/files/2022_ACEA_oil_sequences_heavy-duty_engines_october_2023_Rev_01.pdf

https://bevo.mercedes-benz-trucks.com/pdf/DTFR 15A100/en

So why is that we don't see such HDEO formulations here anymore? Plenty "global" diesel engines on the roads of both sides of the Atlantic (Paccar MX among them) ...or around the seashores...

 

[fantastic]

Super Tech Full Synthetic at $15.xx a gallon.