FS 2500

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Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Well, you're happy with your choice. It made sense to you, and that's all that counts.

I cannot change Amsoil. If you were one of my customers I would work with your installer or have an installer available to fit the unit ..or, if so motivated, do it myself. For example, whoever installed your current setup ..can just as easily fit an Amsoil setup to it since there's no learning curve on location.


I did the install myself, again, not taking any more time off than I need to and the install was a simple less than 1 hour job. Given that, if I would have taken the time off, and likewise not been hauling freight, It would have cost me more to go on a scavenger hunt looking for the required parts or having them custom made (like stainless steel braided hose) that already came in the FS2500 kit. It is a little more simple for the typical crowd, but, even though I am home on weekends, my weekdays are high productivity and since most business' that would cater to the type of parts I needed are not open from Saturday afternoon to Monday morning (at least in rural Iowa), it was a little more problematic to do the Popular Mechanics project route. And it would cost me almost $700 dollars in lost revenue in one week day, to shut down, drive 40 miles to a city where parts like hoses could be made and round up parts and install. Whereas, with a complete kit like the FS, it was waiting for me at home and I had the install done in one hour total time.

Unfortunately, Amsoil in general hasn't figured out that this is the predicament of most of the trucking industry. But then, that is not necessarily the primary focus of their marketing. That is why some enterprising Amsoil dealer(s) could really clean up a large chunk of the market if they would create custom install kits for the Amsoil BP filter units. There are not that many variations regarding engine/chassis combinations. There is considerable movement in the trucking industry, especially with the emissions engines, to go to bypass filtration. It is discussed virtually every day on the XM/Sirius trucking channel. A dealer that really wanted to capitalize on that should get in now. There are nearly 3 million commercial trucks running around this country, just think of the opportunity to snag a lot of that business from the competition. Just a small percentage of that market would secure some dealer's future.

Look at it this way, Gary. You wanted me to use a little ingenuity to do the BP install, take some of that advice on yourself. I have pointed you in the right direction and done the marketing research for you by discussing this. Instead of us going around about it, why not jump on that bandwagon and move in on that market? Just round up a supplier that would make the parts for you, advertise a little, and send customers complete install kits. Don't wait for the folks in Superior to figure it out. Create your own business niche and take market share. I have read the Amsoil dealer literature and I belive that is what they are saying a dealer needs to do to move ahead.
 
All good points. It's more complicated than that, but good points none the less. I'd have to find someone unlike yourself that would be willing to endure the fitment curve and for me to pre-package the setup using that as a template. I'd have to mock-up the various combinations and that requires finding them.

There's also the question about how I would market it. I haven't gone through the policy book in detail, but there could be some issue there.

Amsoil is the one losing here. They don't afford much on the hard parts. The money should be weighted in the recurring filter sales ...but it appears more geared to making the most out of the machined goods. They should be a neutral or loss leaders in the seeding of filter sales ..but that's just my opinion and obviously not shared by corporate. I guess if isolated to a "one hit" deal, they figure that you have to get your due at that time.

While you did this yourself, it could have easily been done at the service center when you hit some inevitable down time (like your aforementioned brake job). There the professional service provider should have the where with all to perform this without any additional down time of merit. This would have eliminated all of the running around that you would have to do to perform this task yourself in ancillary costs of lost revenue.

Again, it worked for your needs and your situation.
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
While you did this yourself, it could have easily been done at the service center when you hit some inevitable down time (like your aforementioned brake job). There the professional service provider should have the where with all to perform this without any additional down time of merit. This would have eliminated all of the running around that you would have to do to perform this task yourself in ancillary costs of lost revenue.

Again, it worked for your needs and your situation.



Only issue I could take with that one is that shop time is $100 per hour or more depending on shop. That has to factor into the equation as well. So the loss of revenue by shutting down for at least 1/2 day: roughly $350 add to that the shop time while they try to figure out parts needed, make required length hoses, and the installation: minimum 2 hours or minimum $200 not counting cost of parts, and the cost of the Amsoil unit and a bypass filter for it. Now we're easily back up to or exceeding the kit cost of the FS2500. Considering that only the most mechinically challenged individuals could not follow the instruction sheet for the FS2500, the install cost and, at least the early on operational cost, of the FS2500 still makes fanancial sense.

This is how a potential customer involved in commercial trucking is going to look at the issue. As stated earlier, the Amsoil BP is a good product, but when all business factors included, it does not look as great as the literature would suggest. Since I disabled my EGR emissions system on my ISX, the soot generation is far and away less that I can now safely utilize the FS2500 to 20,000 miles instead of the recommended 10,000 mile service interval and still have soot levels of .2-.4 .

I am not trying in the least to down the Amsoil product. It is pure business, nothing else. If a dealer wants to enter and successfully engage the market, they have to be able to see the customer's business situation and find a way to make it financially appealing to go with the Amsoil product. Even though Amsoil's BP filters are good, I have not seen any real world (not lab) testing that shows it exceeds any of the other products by any extreme margin. So, for any commercial truck operation, it comes down to all the various costs we have discussed. In this economy where business' do not have the luxury to play financial games, it is just that simple. It is far and away easier to capture some of the personal vehicle market, but we all know that capturing the business market is really where the money is. Just like when Willy Sutton was asked why he robbed banks.... "because that's where the money is".

Regarding any install kit development. That's not difficult. Just go to any commercial truck dealership and take measurements for various engine/chassis combinations on the lot. You will probably cover at least 75% of the existing truck configurations out there in the real world. Then work on the details and have hoses and fittings put together (quality of hose will make a difference in product attraction.. i.e. steel braided hose compared to hydraulic hose to handle heat and vibration better in the engine compartment) and sell the kits along with Amsoil's BP unit and filter. Any special request for one you haven't measured, then go to another truck dealership that has that model. No conflict of interest with Superior as far as I can tell. You are not relabling or altering the Amsoil product in any way. Just selling the attachments to enable a moderate wrench turner to put it on at home in his offtime. Now run a few small ads in the major truck publications (these are free at every truckstop) and you will enable a lot of eyes to land on your product. A simple add in the classified section. Most every trucker will skip over an article or two, but usually always scans the ad section in the back.

I should be charging for this free marketing advise...
 
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Only issue I could take with that one is that shop time is $100 per hour or more depending on shop. That has to factor into the equation as well.


Absolutely -

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So the loss of revenue by shutting down for at least 1/2 day: roughly $350 add to that the shop time while they try to figure out parts needed, make required length hoses, and the installation: minimum 2 hours or minimum $200 not counting cost of parts, and the cost of the Amsoil unit and a bypass filter for it. Now we're easily back up to or exceeding the kit cost of the FS2500.



Maybe ..so we're more or less at a neutral cost point.

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the install cost and, at least the early on operational cost, of the FS2500 still makes fanancial sense.


Well, that may be true ..but you didn't install the thing for a short term payback.

Again it worked for your scheme of things.

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This is how a potential customer involved in commercial trucking is going to look at the issue.


That's how some owner operators may look at it. A fleet operator has his own service facility or a sensible full service center at his disposal. He would not be marking up on himself for T&M on a job. 20 units at a savings of hundreds of dollars each would pay several mechanic's wages for far more hours than the installations would take.

The top of line offering currently from Amsoil is identical to the (thinking) ..I think the Luberfiner wizbang bypass filter. They don't offer kits and I assure you that you'll find no better price than Amsoil on the mount and filter. I've already tried.

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If a dealer wants to enter and successfully engage the market, they have to be able to see the customer's business situation and find a way to make it financially appealing to go with the Amsoil product.


You didn't do what you did for financial reasons ...at least not totally.

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Even though Amsoil's BP filters are good, I have not seen any real world (not lab) testing that shows it exceeds any of the other products by any extreme margin.


There's no magic filtration. We've already gone over the economics of your filter choice. It costs more but works into your maintenance scheme better. Filtration for the most part all comes down to size/time/efficiency. You really can't trump that interactive relationship. Hence it comes down to preferences in how you want to manage that inter-relating factors.


I think we're drifting back into that zone where I'm asking you to just be happy with your filter.

If you want to give me a business lesson ...I think you should become an Amsoil dealer instead. You obviously have the edge on getting their products where they belong and currently are in limited market penetration.

I thank you for your comments.
 
First let me say I am greatly impressed with Tiretrucker & Gary Allen for the very through debate on Amsoil and FS. I would like your advice on each system for my F250SD PSD. I have done a great deal of research and have narrowed it down to the two and also what lead me to find this post. You two both seem to be very knowledgable about these systems and I respect your varied opinions.

Thank you

Airen
 
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Airen1!

What year is your F250SD? How many miles a year?

If you're interested...

Here's some images of customer submitted installations There are some here in the archives somewhere.
 
LOL, thankyou for the heartfelt welcome Gary. My truck is a 2000, sorry I missed that. I have 158,000 miles on the truck, the first 4 years or so is when I put most of that mileage on then I got a job that was closer. It is foreseeable that I will again be doing 20k--35k a year again.
 
Okay, you've got the mileage to make it worth the trip. You have a spin-on filter so I'd recommend an EaO full flow and a stand alone bypass. With that kinda mileage I would expect every other year if you can fit a EaBp110 filter.
 
Thank you for the recommendation Gary, can this or do you recommend a by-pass for the transmission? I have read that some people do this and it seems like a small cost for the added security.
 
Absolutely. It's cheap too. About $50+/- ..maybe $60. There a PB80A ($15) and a EaBp90 ($37.xx). I'll PM you with the details. You'll have the cleanest fluid that can be had.
 
Gary, one thing about fleets having shops to do the work for them... you are assuming that the typical fleet large enough to have their own shops actually gives a rip about bypass filtration. These size fleets turn over their trucks usually at or before 500,000 miles and are not willing to waste any kind of money on anything that doesn't provide almost immediate ROI or isn't mandated by Government. That leaves the perponderance of owners as single truck or very small fleet owners. That is the major bypass filtration market. These individuals do not usually have on site dedicated shops as you suggest. The large fleets usually have lower net profit percentages than individual truck owners... the typical average net profit ratio in the industry for large fleets is around 1-2% even when we are not in these challenging economic times. This is why you hardly ever seen devices such as bypass units on their fleet of trucks.
 
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That leaves the perponderance of owners as single truck or very small fleet owners. That is the major bypass filtration market. These individuals do not usually have on site dedicated shops as you suggest.


So, can we assume that you use just any shop ..nationwide ...sight unseen ... throw a dart at a map on the wall and say "This is who is going to do my brakes ..(next guy- new dart throw) overhaul my trans (next guy - new dart throw) install my bypass "kit".". No relationship ..no researching on rates ..ability ...reputation ..experience?

Or do you have a preferred service center that does your work ..and the work on many other rigs??
 
Sure most O/O have a shop or two that they frequent. But again, the cost factor. A lot of shops do not do Bypass filter installs on a regular basis, so they are in the same situation as the O/O. They get to play what if games on the install (including unethical practices of extending the labor time and marking up parts cost). Now the O/O is paying $100 or more per hour for that to go on. This economy and the situation most O/O are in does not entice them to spend that kind of money. They will see just doing 15K mile service intervals as sufficient instead of paying for a few hours of labor and a slow ROI. There is no quarantee that a bypass will give them extremely long OCI's. Only your lab can tell you for sure.

We could belabor the points we have discussed all you want. However, after 3 decades at commercial trucking, I know how these owners think. For Amsoil (or for any bypass manufacturer) to really make a dent, they have to learn and understand the customer they are trying to sell to. Even though I, as an individual owner, may realize the benefits of bypass, I also realize that very few individual owners are going to realize it and then do anything about it. Just like using a synthetic or synthetic blend. These products will make only a small dent in the overall oil sales. Most owners, individual and fleets, will stick with the old tried and true way of doing things. When they will not take the time to even research the rolling resistance of the tires they purchase, they are not going to spend time researching other novelties. It is only the here and now they concern themselves with. Sad but true.

The individual salesman that can truly crack that barrier will be a God in the marketing community.
 
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