What are the common compounds in LSD friction modifiers?
Friction modifiers
- Thread starter Ethan
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Gary, I've read that, but I didn't see specifically which one(s) are most commonly used. I remember seeing that somewhere and thought I had it saved on this pc, but can't find it. Do you have anything more specific?
Common LSD friction modifier:
See Attached
Sturaco friction modifiers are used in many LSD applications
See Attached
Sturaco friction modifiers are used in many LSD applications
The friction modifiers that are in additives such as redline and amsoil. Are they the modifiers withheld from motorcycle oil for clutch engagement?
Ethan
Ethan
I believe that the FM chemistry used for LSD applications would make the oil used in motorcycle wet clutches too slippery. The clutches need to engage percisely in cycles vs lsds have some larger tolerances.
If you were to use a motorcycle oil in a car or a motorcycle with a dry clutch, but wanted to add back in the FM additives, would using the redline LSD product work? About how much would you add to achieve the necessary percentage?
LSD friction modifiers are formulated for use in GEAR OIL not engine oil or transmission ATFs. The Redline LSD additive is for use in LSD axles. Typical motorcycle oil is 5W30 engine oil not gear oil.
a-c1,
Right, 10w40 or 20w50 and 10w30 in rare occasions for the motorcycle oil. But what friction modifier is it that is used in the LSD? Which one is would you use in a car?
Ethan
Right, 10w40 or 20w50 and 10w30 in rare occasions for the motorcycle oil. But what friction modifier is it that is used in the LSD? Which one is would you use in a car?
Ethan
The chemicals used in friction modifiers for automotive LSD applications typically have a high percentage of a sulfur-phos gear oil. The Redline LSD or other LSD additives at the parts counter contain a high percentage of some gear oil in addition to the "cocktail" of chemicals making up the friction modifier package. That being said, most can be used with either a mineral based or synthetic gear oil without issue.
Ethan,
Depending on the car (manufacturer) you can go to the service counter at the dealership and ask for the bottle of LSD additive.
The FORD or CHRYSLER stuff is usually the most available and dependable. The Redline is also very well respected.
Depending on the car (manufacturer) you can go to the service counter at the dealership and ask for the bottle of LSD additive.
The FORD or CHRYSLER stuff is usually the most available and dependable. The Redline is also very well respected.
MolaKule
Staff member
Quote:
If you were to use a motorcycle oil in a car or a motorcycle with a dry clutch, but wanted to add back in the FM additives, would using the redline LSD product work? About how much would you add to achieve the necessary percentage?
Anti-chatter is telling it straight up.
You do NOT want to put LSD FM's in an engine or a manual transmission or an automatic transmission. Not the correct type of friction modifier.
DO NOT TRY MAKING UP or mixing YOUR OWN LUBES without a background in chemistry or tribology.
In my white paper on Manual Transmission Lubricants it explains friction modification as well as the paper on FM's and AW's.
If you were to use a motorcycle oil in a car or a motorcycle with a dry clutch, but wanted to add back in the FM additives, would using the redline LSD product work? About how much would you add to achieve the necessary percentage?
Anti-chatter is telling it straight up.
You do NOT want to put LSD FM's in an engine or a manual transmission or an automatic transmission. Not the correct type of friction modifier.
DO NOT TRY MAKING UP or mixing YOUR OWN LUBES without a background in chemistry or tribology.
In my white paper on Manual Transmission Lubricants it explains friction modification as well as the paper on FM's and AW's.
I have been told that many years ago, whale oil was one ingredient in LSD additives.
An older coworker told me that, and he said that the older stuff smelled worse than the current GM stuff.
An older coworker told me that, and he said that the older stuff smelled worse than the current GM stuff.
Originally Posted By: Ethan
What are the common compounds in LSD friction modifiers?
The companies that develop these products do not reveal the exact formulation of their products. It's Intellectual Property!
Now there may be certain contributors to this site who purport to know all about this subject but I can assure you that they do not. There have been many VERY recent developments in LSD additives that are not widely known, that's all I can say.
What are the common compounds in LSD friction modifiers?
The companies that develop these products do not reveal the exact formulation of their products. It's Intellectual Property!
Now there may be certain contributors to this site who purport to know all about this subject but I can assure you that they do not. There have been many VERY recent developments in LSD additives that are not widely known, that's all I can say.
MolaKule
Staff member
Quote:
I have been told that many years ago, whale oil was one ingredient in LSD additives.
Sperm whale oil was used to derive two esters for lubricating oils: stearic acid esters (from the blubber) and cetyl palmitates (from the head).
Indeed, these esters were used in lubricating fluids, mainly ATF, and secondarily in cutting fluids.
Cetyl palmitates are now derived from Jojoba oils.
I have been told that many years ago, whale oil was one ingredient in LSD additives.
Sperm whale oil was used to derive two esters for lubricating oils: stearic acid esters (from the blubber) and cetyl palmitates (from the head).
Indeed, these esters were used in lubricating fluids, mainly ATF, and secondarily in cutting fluids.
Cetyl palmitates are now derived from Jojoba oils.
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Whitewolf,
What can you share about the VERY recent developments with the LSD additives. Are they targeted at OEMs for initial fill, service or aftermarket? Which companies...Afton, Lubrizol, Inifineum???
What can you share about the VERY recent developments with the LSD additives. Are they targeted at OEMs for initial fill, service or aftermarket? Which companies...Afton, Lubrizol, Inifineum???
My owners manual says to use 2.4-2.6 qaurts of ATF+4 and also add 4oz. of mopar limited slip friction modifier. The trans is a New Venture T-850 Manual Trans with a Quaife LSD. Quaife says the friction modifier is not needed or recommended for the LSD. Not only that, New Venture recommends using manual trans fluid and not atf.
Why would Dodge/Chrysler/Mopar recommend ATF+4 and a FM to be used in a manual trans? Does the ATF help the syncros work better?
I am currently using Amsoils Universal ATF, but thinking about trying the Amsoil Syncromesh
Why would Dodge/Chrysler/Mopar recommend ATF+4 and a FM to be used in a manual trans? Does the ATF help the syncros work better?
I am currently using Amsoils Universal ATF, but thinking about trying the Amsoil Syncromesh
Some NV manual transmissions needed the MOPAR LSD additive for smoother operation. I believe the tans was on the Neons.
yes, this trans is in a neon srt4. I have heard, but not sure if it was a rumor or fact, dodge decided to use the FM because of customer complaints about their trannys being noisy
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