Frantz tranny filter

[plexx]

There seems to be an issue with the flow rate after the instalation of a tansmission bypass filter. Here's what I found, I checked the flow rate of the return line on my tranny prior to the instalation of the Frantz filter, and after it was installed the flow was much slower than without the Frantz. Now I was very suspicious of the tranny adapter that came with the unit as the orifice went from 3/8" to a 9/32".The adapter diverts some of the fluid to the bypass and the rest is squeezed through this tiny opening, now mind you the slower flow rate I saw was with a new roll of tp in the unit, what happens when the tp gets dirty? I would say an even slower flow rate.I am a mechanic by trade and I know enough not to mess with tranny specs, if the tranny needs to flow lets say 3 gpm and after the filter installation your now flowing 1.5gpm your tranny will not be happy.I think a better design would be an adapter with a spring loaded bypass valve so that no matter what the filter was doing the flow rate would remain consistant.I am not putting the Frantz filters down , I have one on my engine and think it works great but the engine oil filter is set up in such a way that the worst that could happen if the filter clogged would be that the bypass filter would not be filtering, but it would in no way affect the oil presure or the flow rate of the engine. Any input would be helpful.

[ February 07, 2004, 09:08 AM: Message edited by: plexx ]

 

[Bio-T]

plexx,

You win the gold star for this assement of the flow rate. The line that you installed the in line adapter has a venturi in it, that is how it diverts some flow to the input of the Frantz. Then the return of the Frantz will return/enter the adapter after the venturi. Does this work, yes it will divert some flow to the filter. Does it work efficiently, heck no, it reduces the total flow to the transmission. Not a good design. With a no load situation, it is adequate, but will not meet the flow specs of the mfg.
Solution: Convert the Frantz filter to an engine oil type with a .040 restrictor in the output of the Frantz base. Then take the high pressure from the HP test point on the trans and return to the pan. You can also return to the filler tube. Another return is the drain plug in the trans pan if you have one.

 

[plexx]

Thanks vettman for the reply, one thing, I made a mistake when I said the orifice in the adapter was 9/32" it is 3/32" which is ALOT smaller. I think the Frantz are great filters but this method of diverting the flow to the filter I think is a bad idea.It would be interesting to hear what Ralph Woods thinks about this.

 

[Bio-T]

plexx,

This is a case where I would not run any filter rather than use the in-line adapter with the internal venturi. I had used this on 6 trucks in my business and 5 of the transmission overheated at various times. Removed the adapters and used the method I described above and Never another problem. Frantz sells this trans adapter because it is an easy installation and on normal grannys driving to church, it is no problem. Easy installations sometimes can be harmful. The method I described above will work and work efficiently with no harmful side effects.

 

[mangusta1969]

I agree with Vetteman's comments and recommendations.

You might also consider the use of a Trasko filter on a remote filter L-bracket mounting. The Trasko filter is a combination of a full flow screen filter and a low flow bypass filter in a single compact spin-on filter.

Compared to the bypass filter arrangement that Vetteman is using to get cleaner fluids, the benefit of using something like the Trasko between your transmission and the transmission cooler is that it would protect the cooler and internal transmission parts by always delivering filtered fluid to them. There is no free lunch, however. The Trasko does have a design drawback in that it does not have any sort of bypass valve in case the full flow filter screen gets really clogged with some sort of major transmission or engine debris.

Trasko web site:

http://www.trasko-usa.com

Measuring the before and after flow rates (or indirectly measuring the flow rates by measuring the before and after fluid pressures) is an excellent safety measure when modifying any OEM design fluid coolers or filtration systems. To avoid potential disasters, you need to make certain that enough flow is maintained, as cleaner fluid will not make up for insufficient fluid flow.

 

[plexx]

vetteman

What would you sugest is the best way to find a port on the tranny to supply the bypass filter? Maybe use a presure gauge? The return is no problem , also I know some of the presures in an auto tranny can be pretty high , can the Frantz handle this?

 

[Mykro]

Is there a performance issue within the tranny with the Frantz adaptor installed??.. A shifting problem? I haven't notice anything to the contrary.. If the tranny was starved at all for fluid would one notice this when the transmission shifted?? I haven't noticed any negative performance with mine.. Or is my assumption incorrect altogether??

 

[Bio-T]

quote:

---

Originally posted by plexx:
vetteman

What would you sugest is the best way to find a port on the tranny to supply the bypass filter? Maybe use a presure gauge? The return is no problem , also I know some of the presures in an auto tranny can be pretty high , can the Frantz handle this?

---

I use a High Pressure Port, it is actually the test port. The pressure can get as high as 90 PSI, but no problem. This test port is on a Ford Truck trans. If you can find one about 20 to 80 PSI that would be super. Don't forget to put the .040 restriction in the inlet of the Frantz base. I think they sell them on the Frantz site.

[ March 23, 2004, 11:23 AM: Message edited by: 59 Vetteman ]

 

[Bio-T]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mykro:
Is there a performance issue within the tranny with the Frantz adaptor installed??.. A shifting problem? I haven't notice anything to the contrary.. If the tranny was starved at all for fluid would one notice this when the transmission shifted?? I haven't noticed any negative performance with mine.. Or is my assumption incorrect altogether??

---

You will not really notice a problem with shifting or running, you will get enough flow for normal operation. On your truck, when you are pulling a load in the summer, head wind, and hot as all get out, the flow on the return line will be insufficient and an overheat will occur very fast. If you continue to run the adapter in line, I recommend that you use the test port on the transmission and install a temp sending unit, and install a guage in the cab and monitor your trans temp. The test port on your tranny (4R100) is located on the drivers side, front, and is a 1/4" NPT plug.
I hope this helps.

[ February 07, 2004, 04:05 PM: Message edited by: 59 Vetteman ]

 

[Mykro]

I was wondering.. Couldn't you use a ball valve like the one I have installed to my Frantz Transmission to adjust the fluid pressure to the Frantz? ( http://community.webshots.com/album/114815318vlzHVh )

You could could hook up the gauge, start up the engine, and then turn the ball valve to the desired pressure setting you want.. Wouldn't that work too ??

Just my .02 cents worth

 

[RalphPWood]

Very interesting, my first transmission installation was on a 61 Brick dynaflow there was a test plug in the high accumulator. I found it by looking in a 61 Motors Repair Manual. It only shifted when the tranny was in drive. I returned the fluid to the oil pan. I have used the adapter for 40 years and have never had any problems. I have used the Gulf Coast adapter on Ford powerstrokes. My Ford 6.9 has the Frantz adapter. My Turbo hydromatic has the M-30 ATF filter which has the orifice drilled in the filter. Gulf Coast uses a 1/8" orifice fitting in their adapter. I was talking to an old timer in California that doesn't use an orifice. He feels that the orifice isn't needed if you take care of the filter. The Gulf Coast adapter is on a lot of large military Allison filters. Just because I have been doing it with the Frantz adapters and other adapters for 40 years doesn't mean the system can't be improved. Motor Guard has always been the best of the small filters but we always had to make our own adapters. My concern would be the new transmissions with the 1/2" lines. You could use a remote filter mount and put a full flow filter on it. It wouldn't fluid but there wouldn't be any restriction. You could then install a sandwich adapter and a Motor Guard. You would need to make sure you don't hook up the full flow filter backwards. The Motor Guard will filter either way. You could use the same system on the 3/8" or 5/16" lines. The relief valve in the sandwich adapter would keep a supply of oil going to the Motor Guard. I make my living as a problem solver. Mostly mechanical. That's all it is with filters. If your oil is dirty you clean it. If your oil is too hot you cool it.

Ralph

 

[Gary Allan]

quote:

---

The pressure can get as high as 90 PSI, but no problem.

---

The pressure, in some older (60s and 70s) autos, can get as high as 250 in reverse.

 

[Bio-T]

quote:

---

Originally posted by RalphPWood:
I make my living as a problem solver. Mostly mechanical. That's all it is with filters.

Ralph

---

Ralph,
I do agree that the in-line adapter can be used, but a trans temp guage is needed to make sure that you do not exceed the temp limits of the tranny. Also a flow test is required after installation, and if it passes then you are fairly safe under normal conditions, with monitoring using a temp guage.
Grocery getters generally don't have a problem with the in-line adapters, no argument.

As you stated you make your living as a mechanical problem solver.
Well, I spend my retirement trying to prevent mechanical problems so that solutions are not required.

 

[RalphPWood]

It is probably hard to see but the picture of the Motor Guard filter on my Camry automatic has a transmission adapter with a pipe plug upstream of the adapter and one downstream so that I could check the pressure drop thru the adapter. You can get a lot of fluid thru a 1/8" orifice, enough to cool two transmissions. I have since started drilling the element bypass in the filter. That wasn't possible with the old Motor Guard. The newer Motor Guards are less restrictive than the Frantz and a lot less restrictive than the old Motor Guards. I guess I just always trusted Frantz when they came out with the ATF adapter and they always worked for me. My diesel Ford pulling a fifth wheel trailer isn't exactly a grocery getter. If I had some concerns about restricting the flow of fluid to the cooler I would do it the fool proof way. I would install Perma-Cool auxillary transmission filter kit 771-10678 in jegs.com. Then to get the cleaning down to 0.1 micron I would install a 771-181 adapter to the mount and run two hoses to the Motor Guard. The mount or adapter will take a Ford filter or if you are hurting for room you could install a little filter such as my Camry takes. A bunch of filters will fit the Pera-Cool mount. With the sandwich adapter everything goes thru the spin on filter. Some goes to the Motor Guard to be cleaned first the rest goes thru the relief valve in the sandwich adapter. Tht relief valve will open at about two PSI so there is no resistance of any importance. Nothing gets to the cooler without being filtered. The transmission doesn't care which of the submicronic filters you use.
I like the design of the Motor Guard and always have. You have to use a firm roll of TP and unroll enough paper to make them 4 1/4" diameter. For the big cooler lines like on the newer diesel pickups you can use a 771-10695, it has the 1/2" oil line.
Most people don't realize how many abrasives are in ATF. When you see the white element after it has cleaned the fluid you will know. It is similar to the propane engine motor oil at work. No soot but the wear metal shows up good. Transmisssions will somtimes smooth out as soon as the clean fluid hits the parts.
When I did the Buick I was a kid. I had a gauge on the dash that showed when the high accumulator kicked in and the Motor Guard started filtering. In those days the Motor Guard was rated at 300 psi working pressure. They beefed up the newer ones and rated them for 125 psi. I think they want a big safety factor. They test them at 400 psi. I wouldn't want one in my hands at 400 psi.

They use them for compressed air. The over center clamps are too dangerous for compressed air. At work we run them 24 hours a day at 125 psi. At the time I did the Buick the high accumulator must have been the best pressure at less than 100 pasi. AT the time I thought I invented cleaning ATF. It was considered experimental at the time. Someone forgot to tell me.

I was down at a oil change place getting a safety sticker. They were cleaning up selling transmission flushes. The best thing to flush a transmission is clean fluid.

Ralph

 

[Schultz]

I would recomend a full flow return line hydraulic filter. The spin on filters are reasonably priced, provide 20gpm, and filter down to 3µm. They can be bought through Grainger or any hydraulic store.