Frantz and GulfCoast owners sound off ..tell us how good it does

[Gary Allan]

Okay ...they're trashing a multitude of stuff at my plant (closing - bought by a St. Louis company for the processes) ...a whole lot of useable but not worth shipping stuff. In any event a number of remote mount hydraulic filter mounts and one Frantz setup came into my posession (I bid on them-cheap).

So ...to all you users out there ...do they come anywhere NEAR what they claim on the respective advertizments?? Will my oil be "perpetually clean" with just the timely changing of my toilet paper element? Will I never have to do a complete oil change again? Will my oil look cleaner ...and in fact be cleaner ....as though it was "new" forever?????


Tell me of your experience(s).

 

[deepsquat]

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000774

link to my most recent analysis of mobile 1 with lube control changed fiter 2 times in the 11000 miles ran ( hence added 2 quarts during the 11000)
I have gone as far as 30000 ...and probably could have gone to 50000...but don't attempt 30000 without a few analysis along the way.

 

[greencrew]

When I ran a Frantz in a Subaru with an oil cooled turbo it worked as claimed. I ran about 50,000 miles (twice) before draining all the oil out with dino oil, and chaning the filter every 2,000 to 3,000 miles. I never did an oil analysis, but I remember the dip stick being clear. It saved me from rebuilding the turbo.

The by-pass filter is overkill as far as protection. The down side is the up front cost, and mounting it. To mount it you will need to find these three things.

1) A location with space and access.
2) A location with good metal to mount to
3) A location where hoses can be routed easily.

Now, since you only change the oil in the filters it would be a good idea to run a good synthetic.

 

[Gary Allan]

This would be in addition to my dual 2 quart remote set up. Space isn't too much of an issue in my Jeep since I removed the air box for a K&N setup.

The problem that I'm running into is that it appears that, in spite of my large capacity (9.5 qt.), ....I only get about 6-7k out my oil before degradtion. I switched to Delvac 1 and experienced a fuel economy increase (a consistant 1.5-2 mpg for approx 6000 miles ...then it went back to the typical 17-17.5 mpg. I'm going 10,000 miles for this interval with no filter changes based on the robust aditive package that Delvac allegedly has. My last change with Mobil 1 at approx 8-9k had a TBN of only 2.5 ...which means that it was nearly shot.

Since it would be hard to assert that the oil or the capacity are at issue here ....I'm left with the filter media as the obstacle in my quest for sensible drain intervals with uncompromised reliability. I currently use Napa Gold 1794 filters. These are Chevy filters ...except that they are twice as long (8.5"). I have found, however, that these are typically used in hydraulic applications (compressors, etc.).

Perhaps I'll cut one apart to see if it is any different then the automotive Napa Gold.

BTW- I got two TP filters with the Frantz setup. The have both the inner AND outer cardboard liner. Is the outer one JUST to keep it from unravelling? That is do I just put the whole thing in the Frantz canister ..or remove the outer cardboard lining???

TIA

 

[greencrew]

I don't think I am understanding. Pictures are a good thing.

First, if you are running a "dual 2 quart remote set up," then it sounds like you already have a by-pass filter?

Second, I don't remember any cardboard. Is it possible it is for shipping only and gets tossed?

 

[Bio-T]

Leave the cardboard on the outside. It is to prevent channeling of the oil between the filter and the cannister. Use this with the snap type outer ring in the cannister. Also a phenol fiber type ring can be used when using OTC paper. Some use the old split ring and some use the solid fiber ring.

 

[RalphPWood]

Gary,
It's a matter of using a high quality oil and never allowing it to get dirty. Allowing oil to get dirty wear and foul the engine then draining it has never made any sense. What makes the Frantz, Motor guard and Gulf Coast clean oil is cellulose. Cellulose is the best lube oil filter known to mankind. Toilet paper is nothing but concentrated cellulose. Cotton is good if it is packed as tightly as toilet paper. Some heavy duty truck filters are made of shredded newspapers.
I brought back the Motor Guard of California to use with a Perma-Cool.com sandwich adapter. It is also the easiest to service of any submicronic bypass filter. One filter company that doesn't clean oil as well as toilet papere talks about channeling of the element. A high quality roll of toilet paper doesn't channel. The string type filters do channel. The problem with toilet paper filters is many people are not skilled at choosing a firm tight roll. Most toilet paper filters makers have gone to their own high quality elements that are just the right size. The trick is to find an element that works as well as toilet paper that you can call something else. One filter company has an advanced element. Cut open the plastic cartridge and you find a roll of good old toilet paper.
The old toilet paper filters were designed to fit 1 1/4" ID toilet paper. It's mostly all 1 5/8" ID these days. I had to change the internal parts of the Motor Guard M-30 and M-60. I made the internal parts to seal inside 1 5/8 ID TP such as Scott.
Motor Guard started as a lube oil filter when most people had been taught that oil is supposed to get dirty and then be drained. To stay in business they came out with their own special element similar to coffee filter paper and went into industrial use. They beefed up the housing and added an epoxy coating. I had to covert it back to lube oil with better internal parts to fit TP. A rule with filters is the better they clean oil and the smaller they are the more often they must be changed. My oil always looks like it has just been changed. My Camry needs a new roll of TP and a qt of oil every 4,000 miles. If I go to 12,000 mile changes it will get to the point where i need to drain oil. I don't spend much on oil analysis. I can tell by the look and feel of the oil if it is clean. All TP filters do as advertised. They clean oil.

Ralph

 

[Gary Allan]

quote:

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First, if you are running a "dual 2 quart remote set up," then it sounds like you already have a by-pass filter?

---

No ...just a dual remote mount. I chose the chevy style which allows the use of larger filters. I imagine that there are larger filters that match the Ford (the most popular dual remote) thread and gasket size.

quote:

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All TP filters do as advertised. They clean oil.

---

Thank you all for your input. I'll get around to mounting this soon. Now to search for that filter media ...I guess the bathroom would be a good place to start

 

[RalphPWood]

Instigator,
Water is what the 1966 Frantz owners manual says causes the problem. It's not very common. I've seen it happen filtering fuel when there was a bunch of water in the tank. Strange things happen when you are dealing with water. I'm not sure why it happens but the element will get smaller as it removes water from the oil. The core will work as long as the seal at the bottom cuts into the paper around the core.
The guy that designed the Motor Guard didn't want cracks. That's one reason he tapered the housing on both ends. In extreme conditions the crack can go all the way thru. I have a couple of Gulf Coast 0-1 jrs that deal with a lot of water. The cracks start opening when the element is removed.
I was talking to Perma-Cool about a sandwich adapter to fit a Dodge Cummins. They recommended a remote mount then installing a submicronic bypass filter on the remote mount using a sandwich adapter. They didn't have a sandwich adapter for the Cummins but had them for the Chevys and Ford Filters. Kind of a dual remote system with one filtering fast and one cleaning the oil at a slow rate.

Ralph

 

[instigator]

hey Ralph thanks for posting, but i think it went into the wrong thread(oh well) this is the second element that has the splitting or open up the end its also the second element that the core didnt match the dia. of the unit i put in the one that has a smaller dia. and will check in a couple k's to see if thats the problem, as far as the water i have no idea where its coming from except maybe during the night when i shut down it gatthers condensation during the night fall and when i go to work around 1pm the next day the water is then tranfered into the filter.

on a diferent subject i just plumbed the gulf coast 01jr i bought from you using a flex-a-lite sandwich adapter (i think they are a little better built than the perma-cools,also they arent back ordered)anyway i'm going to re plumb the frantz on my 4runner using the same method and was wondering why the manufacturers steer away from this type of plumbing. i for one see it as a cleaner install, much cleaner than punching a hole in ones oil pan and tring to find a pressure source(not all of us have chevies or fords)

heres a link to the pics of the filter installed in my landcruiser and the pressure gauge teed into the sandwich adapter. i hope this doesnt break the rules.

LINK

 

[Gary Allan]

quote:

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i just plumbed the gulf coast 01jr i bought from you using a flex-a-lite sandwich adapter

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Does the Gulf Coast have the same high restriction properties of the Frantz? That is, it's supposed to only see 10% of the oil flow? If so you're running your main oil filter in bypass ....errr actually you're running your sandwich adapter in bypass all the time.

Unless something has changed ..the ports on the sandwich adaptors see FULL FLOW. The PermaCool unit that I have sitting around has a 1/4" bypass built in. If I dead head the the flow at the ports (or put a really high restriction ..like a Frantz) ...that bypass is the only thing that's going to feed the oil filter ..and the rest of the engine.

Tell me what I have "wrong about this picture"??

Spank me if you must!!

I need to understand!

 

[instigator]

Gary the perma cool and the flex a liter are basically the same thing. the flow of oil is to the bypass filter when it, and it does, cause a restriction the ball valve opens up and redirects the flow throught the full flow filter and back into the oil gallies, the return of the bypass is also picked up on its way back into the galley. so yes you have the correct assumption about the filter adapter. and yes the gulf coast filter is very similar to that of the frantz in the way it does its job. the restiction is in the return side of the filter .060" i think i also will be putting a buffer restrictor into the press side of the unit to relieve some of the high press inside the unit (hopefully, but i dont see how since the whole unit is being pressurized by the sandwich adapter, press and return is probably a 4-6 psi diff. and at 100 psi i really dont see it changing that much, even with the restrictions) but i was reassured by charles simms at gulf coast filters,he said that there unit(01jr) can take a burst press of 300 psi of cold hyd fluid.

[ September 09, 2003, 01:27 AM: Message edited by: instigator ]

 

[RalphPWood]

Institgator,
Normally you don't see cracks with the Frantz or any of the TP filters with motor oil. The huge amount of water the engine generates is pulled out by the crankcase ventilation. At one time Frantz had their own motor oil and additives to keep the PCV valve clean. Clean hot motor oil is a hostile place for water or fuel. Frantz had their own sandwich adapter for many years. I still have a few left. It was common before the sandwich adapters to toss the almost useless full flow filter and use a block off plate with a 1/8" port in it. My Camry has no full flow filter. I found out about the Perma-Cool sandwich adapter from a customer that told me " I'm not punching a hole in my oil pan". He found the sandwich adapters at jegs.com and told me about them.
As a rule filter makers don't recommend things they don't sell. What else is new? Who sells the Flex-a-lite? I'm always looking for new things. I just installed a Motor Guard M-60 bolted to the frame with a GM V8 sandwich adapter on a 8.2 Detroit. I drilled a 1/4" relief in the adapter. SAndwich adapters are not economical for a filter company unless they have a big market for them. At one time Frantz was charging 30.00 for them. Motor Guard is happy for me to worry about adapters. They haven't made adapters for over 20 years. Motor Guard recommended keeping the full flow filter until the warranty expired then using only the Motor Guard. Motor Guard had the same block off plate as Frantz. Four models covered about all small full flow filters. Frantz added a fitting to the block off plate so that the clean oil could be returned to the plate. Later came the sandwich adapters. Frantz was the king of adapters. Motor Guard had one to choose from. I used a Frantz Chevy adapter to convert my cannister filter on my Honda road bike to a spin on full flow filter and a Frantz back by the saddle bags.

Ralph

 

[instigator]

Ralph if these cracks arnt normal somthing must be amis(sp). i'm not losing water from the coolant sys. my gas mileage is normal for my car so that kinda rules out the fuel getting into the oil in an excesive state. the only thing i can think of is what i had said before about the condensation, overnight cooling.

frantz still make adapters for the pressure side but they arnt like the perma cool or the like. the flex a lite adapter i got from a local speed/4x4 shop. i also have seen them on a couple of performance sites. like performance center dot com. ive called around about the perma cool and the folks didnt like the fact that they were always out of stock on any given item. some people didnt even do business with them.

why did you drill a 1/4in hole into your adapter? did it also have the bypass ball valve?

 

[RalphPWood]

Instigator,
Engines get the water mostly from putting water into the engine with the air while the engine is running. Sludge is caused by water the engine isn't getting rid of thru the ventilation system. The Frantz will keep grabbing the water that gets to it. Gasoline doesn't cause cracks. Leave a oil saturated roll of TP out in a rain and watch the cracks start forming as the element starts grabbing the water. The main thing is how the element looks at the screen end. This is why engines with these types of filters don't have sludge build up in the engines. The elements are economical enough that you are going to change them often enough to keep the oil clean and dry.
Perma-Cool doesn't put a relief valve in the GM adapters that have the relief valve in the filter mount. Normally we use the universal adapter that has the relief valve on the GM engines and screw a 3/4-16 thread filter on it. This is a problem at work on the 8.2 GM Detroit. The diesel mechanics will try to use the Detroit filter. Without the relief valve the only oil the full flow filter gets is what comes from the Motor Guard. The rest of the oil the engine needs goes directly to the engine thru the stock relief valve. The stock filter is a secondary filter for the Motor Guard. It is a straight bypass system the same as a flat head Ford or a 53 Chevy. A 30 micron filter isn't worth much as a secondary filter for a submicronic filter. The 1/4" hole lets the full flow filter get a large amount of oil and still give enough resistance to keep oil going to the Motor Guard. Similar to the Frantz sandwich adapter. Frantz used 1/8" ports. These adapters think the depth filters are a clogged oil cooler.

Ralph

 

[sprintman]

With my input co-worker just installed a Frantz bypass on his Holden (GM) 308ci V8. So far he's impressed as it cleaned the oil up even though he just added a bottle of Auto-Rx as well. Will see what happens I guess. Also a lady from Frantz called from the States to check delivery details etc which is very good service indeed.

 

[Mykro]

Well.. I installed My Frantz on my 7.3l PSD.
Had only one leak but that was easily fixed.
I Took a sample of the Engine oil which is only 2,221 miles old.. YYYuck!! "Black as Coal"
I'm going to take another sample of the oil after
a 1,000 miles of filtration with the Frantz and do a side by side comparison.. It will interesting!
Next project is to install my other Frantz on the Transmission..

 

[Mykro]

Well... I installed the Frantz for the Trans today. Had no leaks on the first try! I'd have to give myself a pat on the back for a professional installation. My only problem I encountered though was I should have drained the Trans fluid from cooler first before I cut the return line.. Made a mess.. Me included.. A gallon of fluid drained out.. Had to wait about 30 minutes to let that drain out. Other than that It works great!
I'm glad I did the installation.. It's good insurance. Definetly worth doing!

 

[Mykro]

Installed the Frantz On my fuel line today..Went really smooth.. Easy to install. Changed out the first Filter element on the tranny too after about 800 miles..There was a silvery tone to the fluid in the element which would be metal particles. And I saw bigger bits of metal in the fluid in the canister after I pulled the roll out.. You wouldn't believe how much metal circulates through a transmission...