+1. for the Orange Can of discriminating. 
Fram filters
- Thread starter dlundblad
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Originally Posted By: Cooper
You show your ignorance here.....Purolator is making a product you might enjoy at the moment.
No more than you do
I simply dont give Fram a pass on using such materials for end-caps when their competitors are doing end-caps with superior materials, and at a better price point.
I suspect that Purolator is paying close attention to their current issue (i.e. actually listing to their customers concerns), and will resolve it in a timely manner. I will give them a chance to correct it. If they dont, I'll likely move on to Napa/Wix.
Originally Posted By: Cooper
It is not a cardboard end cap, but a fiber based end cap that seals way better than metal does. The reason the Fram Ultra uses the metal end cap is because it is a METAL backed SYNTHETIC media....
The last PH6018 (which had tears in the media pleats) and PH7317 I opened up were 'cardboard', but youre welcome to call them 'fiber' if you like
If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...
In those apps, they didnt appear to be sealing well at all. At the price points for those filters, I didnt expect them to be so cheaply made. Theres better alternatives out there.
As for the media backing to metal end-caps, thats a cop-out. Theres the right kind of adhesives out there to get the job done correctly, as evidenced by most other oil filter manufactures current designs.
Yes, yes, I know, I'm probably just a 'Fram hater'... however, my concerns are quite valid. I believe that metal end-caps are the most effective and safest material in an oil filter environment.
K
You show your ignorance here.....Purolator is making a product you might enjoy at the moment.
No more than you do
I suspect that Purolator is paying close attention to their current issue (i.e. actually listing to their customers concerns), and will resolve it in a timely manner. I will give them a chance to correct it. If they dont, I'll likely move on to Napa/Wix.
Originally Posted By: Cooper
It is not a cardboard end cap, but a fiber based end cap that seals way better than metal does. The reason the Fram Ultra uses the metal end cap is because it is a METAL backed SYNTHETIC media....
The last PH6018 (which had tears in the media pleats) and PH7317 I opened up were 'cardboard', but youre welcome to call them 'fiber' if you like
In those apps, they didnt appear to be sealing well at all. At the price points for those filters, I didnt expect them to be so cheaply made. Theres better alternatives out there.
As for the media backing to metal end-caps, thats a cop-out. Theres the right kind of adhesives out there to get the job done correctly, as evidenced by most other oil filter manufactures current designs.
Yes, yes, I know, I'm probably just a 'Fram hater'... however, my concerns are quite valid. I believe that metal end-caps are the most effective and safest material in an oil filter environment.
K
The earth is flat, there is a great bargain available on a bridge in San Francisco Bay and fiber endcaps on oil filters are just plain evil. Everybody who's anybody knows this.
MrQuackers
Site Donor 2025
I wonder if any filter has been manufactured with fiber end caps and a metal cap over that? I'd buy that filter.
Originally Posted By: Motorking
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
This might have been addressed before, but I am having a heck of a time finding the info..
Would it be safe to assume that all lines of Fram spin on filters share the same components with the exception of the media elements? ie can, bypass, leaf springs, ADBV's etc.
***I realize the EG has the nitrile rubber ADBV, while the TG and Ultra have silicon.. not too sure about the HM filter though. Anyways I will hopefully have an EG and a HM filter cut open and posted with about 4000 mile OCI's for you guys within the month.
Hello and welcome to the forum, I am the tech director for FRAM
The EG filter and HM filter are the same filter media (80% cellulose/20% synthetic glass) with 95.7 % efficiency@ 20 microns. Nitrile rubber ADBV's, same can thickness, engineered fiber end caps, leaf springs, Nylon 66 bypass valves. The only difference is the additive basket in the HM filter.
The TG filter is essentially the same with the following variations-
Silicone ADBV
Better paint/primer to combat rust and corrosion in the longer OCI
Media is generally 70% cellulose/30% synthetic with a higher synthetic composition in the smaller sizes for more capacity.
99% efficiency@20 microns. Same engineered fiber end caps, same nylon 66 bypass valve.
The Ultra is completely different. The media cartridge is a pleated stainless steel screen with two layers of full synthetic filter media. It is the only synthetic filter in the market with two layers of media. Flanged steel end caps to capture the pleated screen. It also has a leaf spring, silicone ADBV, Nylon 66 bypass along with improved paint/primer on the can so it can resist corrosion on the car for 15k OCI's. All FRAM filters have the wrinkled Sure Grips for easy installation/removal.
Thanks for the detailed reply.
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
This might have been addressed before, but I am having a heck of a time finding the info..
Would it be safe to assume that all lines of Fram spin on filters share the same components with the exception of the media elements? ie can, bypass, leaf springs, ADBV's etc.
***I realize the EG has the nitrile rubber ADBV, while the TG and Ultra have silicon.. not too sure about the HM filter though. Anyways I will hopefully have an EG and a HM filter cut open and posted with about 4000 mile OCI's for you guys within the month.
Hello and welcome to the forum, I am the tech director for FRAM
The EG filter and HM filter are the same filter media (80% cellulose/20% synthetic glass) with 95.7 % efficiency@ 20 microns. Nitrile rubber ADBV's, same can thickness, engineered fiber end caps, leaf springs, Nylon 66 bypass valves. The only difference is the additive basket in the HM filter.
The TG filter is essentially the same with the following variations-
Silicone ADBV
Better paint/primer to combat rust and corrosion in the longer OCI
Media is generally 70% cellulose/30% synthetic with a higher synthetic composition in the smaller sizes for more capacity.
99% efficiency@20 microns. Same engineered fiber end caps, same nylon 66 bypass valve.
The Ultra is completely different. The media cartridge is a pleated stainless steel screen with two layers of full synthetic filter media. It is the only synthetic filter in the market with two layers of media. Flanged steel end caps to capture the pleated screen. It also has a leaf spring, silicone ADBV, Nylon 66 bypass along with improved paint/primer on the can so it can resist corrosion on the car for 15k OCI's. All FRAM filters have the wrinkled Sure Grips for easy installation/removal.
Thanks for the detailed reply.
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
The earth is flat...
For those of us on spherical planets, metal is typically far more resilient than cardboard. Oops! Theres those pesky scientific facts again!
We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause flat-earthers
K
The earth is flat...
For those of us on spherical planets, metal is typically far more resilient than cardboard. Oops! Theres those pesky scientific facts again!
We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause flat-earthers
K
Originally Posted By: Keto
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
The earth is flat...
For those of us on spherical planets, metal is typically far more resilient than cardboard. Oops! Theres those pesky scientific facts again!
We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause flat-earthers
K
You're a Purolator or DriveWorks user aren't you?
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
The earth is flat...
For those of us on spherical planets, metal is typically far more resilient than cardboard. Oops! Theres those pesky scientific facts again!
We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause flat-earthers
K
You're a Purolator or DriveWorks user aren't you?
Originally Posted By: MrQuackers
I wonder if any filter has been manufactured with fiber end caps and a metal cap over that? I'd buy that filter.
Never hear or seen such a design ... it wouldn't be necessary to have both.
I wonder if any filter has been manufactured with fiber end caps and a metal cap over that? I'd buy that filter.
Never hear or seen such a design ... it wouldn't be necessary to have both.
Originally Posted By: Keto
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
The earth is flat...
For those of us on spherical planets, metal is typically far more resilient than cardboard. Oops! Theres those pesky scientific facts again!
We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause flat-earthers
K
True ... but if the fiber end caps are made thick enough (like seen in the Honda OEM filters made by Fram), then they will stay flat and ridged like a metal end cap.
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
The earth is flat...
For those of us on spherical planets, metal is typically far more resilient than cardboard. Oops! Theres those pesky scientific facts again!
We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause flat-earthers
K
True ... but if the fiber end caps are made thick enough (like seen in the Honda OEM filters made by Fram), then they will stay flat and ridged like a metal end cap.
MrQuackers
Site Donor 2025
There are advantages to using fiber end caps. The metal satisfies the concerns of some diehards. It could also be some type of nylon/plastic.
Originally Posted By: Keto
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
The earth is flat...
For those of us on spherical planets, metal is typically far more resilient than cardboard. Oops! Theres those pesky scientific facts again!
We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause flat-earthers
K
Well, considering there is no "cardboard" in Fram filters......this is a non issue.
Please, show me a failed Fram filter of recent? I bet I could show you a Purolator or two that have failed....
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
The earth is flat...
For those of us on spherical planets, metal is typically far more resilient than cardboard. Oops! Theres those pesky scientific facts again!
We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause flat-earthers
K
Well, considering there is no "cardboard" in Fram filters......this is a non issue.
Please, show me a failed Fram filter of recent? I bet I could show you a Purolator or two that have failed....
Originally Posted By: Keto
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
The earth is flat...
For those of us on spherical planets, metal is typically far more resilient than cardboard. Oops! Theres those pesky scientific facts again!
We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause flat-earthers
K
If you truly understood what an endcap on an oil filter was supposed to do you'd realize it's pretty much a non issue, your totally stuck on the "visual mental" part whether you realize it or not. Not very scientific but you're clearly not teachable on this so whatever you have plenty of others to pick from.
You are essentially saying you're fine with pumping multiple gallons of your oil per minute through a paper based filtering media, but don't you dare hold that media in place with a much thicker, stronger paper based media. See your objection doesn't really make any sense.
Carry on... metal endcap filters abound. I like the Wix cheapies myself (Napa Silvers).
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
The earth is flat...
For those of us on spherical planets, metal is typically far more resilient than cardboard. Oops! Theres those pesky scientific facts again!
We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause flat-earthers
K
If you truly understood what an endcap on an oil filter was supposed to do you'd realize it's pretty much a non issue, your totally stuck on the "visual mental" part whether you realize it or not. Not very scientific but you're clearly not teachable on this so whatever you have plenty of others to pick from.
You are essentially saying you're fine with pumping multiple gallons of your oil per minute through a paper based filtering media, but don't you dare hold that media in place with a much thicker, stronger paper based media. See your objection doesn't really make any sense.
Carry on... metal endcap filters abound. I like the Wix cheapies myself (Napa Silvers).
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
If you truly understood what an endcap on an oil filter was supposed to do you'd realize it's pretty much a non issue
My background is in Mechanical Design. I have experience with hydraulic test equipment.
Cardboard "fiber"
end-caps are an issue.
No way in he|| is one of those filters going in any vehicle I own, not after what I've seen with PH6018's and PH7317's. Theyre horrible filters IMHO.
If you are comfortable with them, by all means use them. I will not.
K
If you truly understood what an endcap on an oil filter was supposed to do you'd realize it's pretty much a non issue
My background is in Mechanical Design. I have experience with hydraulic test equipment.
Cardboard "fiber"
No way in he|| is one of those filters going in any vehicle I own, not after what I've seen with PH6018's and PH7317's. Theyre horrible filters IMHO.
If you are comfortable with them, by all means use them. I will not.
K
Originally Posted By: Keto
My background is in Mechanical Design. I have experience with hydraulic test equipment.
That's nice, you'll fit right in with all the other self proclaimed internet engineers and experts here.
Originally Posted By: Keto
Cardboard "fiber"
end-caps are an issue.
In your head anyway. In an oil filter, not so much.
Originally Posted By: Keto
No way in he|| is one of those filters going in any vehicle I own...
I don't care what filter you use but I'd suggest you don't manipulate past the BITOG language filter that will get you in trouble.
Originally Posted By: Keto
If you are comfortable with them, by all means use them. I will not.
K
Fair enough, now we can agree on something! Done deal!
My background is in Mechanical Design. I have experience with hydraulic test equipment.
That's nice, you'll fit right in with all the other self proclaimed internet engineers and experts here.
Originally Posted By: Keto
Cardboard "fiber"
In your head anyway. In an oil filter, not so much.
Originally Posted By: Keto
No way in he|| is one of those filters going in any vehicle I own...
I don't care what filter you use but I'd suggest you don't manipulate past the BITOG language filter that will get you in trouble.
Originally Posted By: Keto
If you are comfortable with them, by all means use them. I will not.
K
Fair enough, now we can agree on something! Done deal!
Originally Posted By: Keto
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
If you truly understood what an endcap on an oil filter was supposed to do you'd realize it's pretty much a non issue
My background is in Mechanical Design. I have experience with hydraulic test equipment.
Cardboard "fiber"
end-caps are an issue.
No way in he|| is one of those filters going in any vehicle I own, not after what I've seen with PH6018's and PH7317's. Theyre horrible filters IMHO.
If you are comfortable with them, by all means use them. I will not.
K
How long ago did you see these issues?
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
If you truly understood what an endcap on an oil filter was supposed to do you'd realize it's pretty much a non issue
My background is in Mechanical Design. I have experience with hydraulic test equipment.
Cardboard "fiber"
No way in he|| is one of those filters going in any vehicle I own, not after what I've seen with PH6018's and PH7317's. Theyre horrible filters IMHO.
If you are comfortable with them, by all means use them. I will not.
K
How long ago did you see these issues?
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
IMO, if Fram made the fiber end caps thicker so they are more ridged like on the Honda OEM filters, I think more people would accept the fiber end cap design.
IMO, Fram should change to a fiber center tube to match the fiber end caps. They'd probably save $.02 per filter if they did that. Share holders would be happy.
IMO, if Fram made the fiber end caps thicker so they are more ridged like on the Honda OEM filters, I think more people would accept the fiber end cap design.
IMO, Fram should change to a fiber center tube to match the fiber end caps. They'd probably save $.02 per filter if they did that. Share holders would be happy.
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
That's nice, you'll fit right in with all the other self proclaimed internet engineers and experts here.
I am a self-proclaimed Engineer! My Alma mater proclaims it, the State DCA licensing board proclaims it... its proclaimed a lot!
What are your self-proclaimed qualifications?
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
In an oil filter, not so much.
In your imaginary world, perhaps. Metal end-caps typically provide a static seal with minimal assembly pressure, vs cardboard "fiber" which would require more substantial pressure to maintain a proper seal, like gasket material would normally be subjected to. I dont see that in these filters. In the 6018's I've disassembled, there appeared to be seepage between the intake and exhaust channels, particularly on the edge where the bypass assembly fits into the core. The 7317's had similar characteristics.
K
That's nice, you'll fit right in with all the other self proclaimed internet engineers and experts here.
I am a self-proclaimed Engineer! My Alma mater proclaims it, the State DCA licensing board proclaims it... its proclaimed a lot!
What are your self-proclaimed qualifications?
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
In an oil filter, not so much.
In your imaginary world, perhaps. Metal end-caps typically provide a static seal with minimal assembly pressure, vs cardboard "fiber" which would require more substantial pressure to maintain a proper seal, like gasket material would normally be subjected to. I dont see that in these filters. In the 6018's I've disassembled, there appeared to be seepage between the intake and exhaust channels, particularly on the edge where the bypass assembly fits into the core. The 7317's had similar characteristics.
K
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
How long ago did you see these issues?
The 6018's were several years ago, its a motorcycle filter. I havent looked at one in a while myself. To my knowledge, they are still the same design. One of the motorcycle sites I frequent keeps tabs on such things, so I will check it out again. There are pics, so I will acquire them later today.
The 7317's were just last year, Honda car in this case. Other than overall dimensions, the design is nearly identical to the 6018. It was a poorly made filter.
K
How long ago did you see these issues?
The 6018's were several years ago, its a motorcycle filter. I havent looked at one in a while myself. To my knowledge, they are still the same design. One of the motorcycle sites I frequent keeps tabs on such things, so I will check it out again. There are pics, so I will acquire them later today.
The 7317's were just last year, Honda car in this case. Other than overall dimensions, the design is nearly identical to the 6018. It was a poorly made filter.
K
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