Four Cities to ban diesel vehicles by 2025
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Originally Posted By: nthach
VW's gonna lobby Mexico City and Madrid to stop it - seeing how there is an assembly plant in Mexico and Spain. Only way I can see this happening is if a city is near a Toyota/Honda plant - while Toyota does sell diesels, Toyota is very hellbent on hybrids - the Prius is a de facto choice of cabbies, Uber drivers and municipalities. I wouldn't be surprised if CARB was lobbied by Toyota to delay VW's TDIs from being sold in California - it would be the only car that can compete against the almighty Prius(besides the Chevy Volt), Honda barely made a splash with the Civic Hybrid and Insight.
None of the public transit agencies adopted CNG around here - one agency is going to "clean diesel" after running CNG and gasoline-electric New Flyer buses powered by the Triton V10 and an ISE/Siemens parallel hybrid system.
TDI is not the only version VW has..
https://www.google.si/amp/www.telegraph....-term-test/amp/
VW's gonna lobby Mexico City and Madrid to stop it - seeing how there is an assembly plant in Mexico and Spain. Only way I can see this happening is if a city is near a Toyota/Honda plant - while Toyota does sell diesels, Toyota is very hellbent on hybrids - the Prius is a de facto choice of cabbies, Uber drivers and municipalities. I wouldn't be surprised if CARB was lobbied by Toyota to delay VW's TDIs from being sold in California - it would be the only car that can compete against the almighty Prius(besides the Chevy Volt), Honda barely made a splash with the Civic Hybrid and Insight.
None of the public transit agencies adopted CNG around here - one agency is going to "clean diesel" after running CNG and gasoline-electric New Flyer buses powered by the Triton V10 and an ISE/Siemens parallel hybrid system.
TDI is not the only version VW has..
https://www.google.si/amp/www.telegraph....-term-test/amp/
Originally Posted By: bioburner
Does biodiesel have the high amount of NO2? I know it smells alot better than straight dino
Neither contain the NO2 in the fuel, it comes from the excess air in the cilinder (Nitrogen and Oxygen being the most abundant elements in air)
Does biodiesel have the high amount of NO2? I know it smells alot better than straight dino
Neither contain the NO2 in the fuel, it comes from the excess air in the cilinder (Nitrogen and Oxygen being the most abundant elements in air)
Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
Spent a month in Pordenone Italy; the diesel emissions caused constant headaches and were very noticeable when walking around town.
That's how I felt visiting London, England.
Lots of diesel fumes made me sick.
Spent a month in Pordenone Italy; the diesel emissions caused constant headaches and were very noticeable when walking around town.
That's how I felt visiting London, England.
Lots of diesel fumes made me sick.
Originally Posted By: Lolvoguy
Originally Posted By: umungus1122
How do they plan on getting trucks in to deliver goods? Even small delivery vans are mostly diesel in Europe.
Agreed.
There's many bogus articles on the web. This seems to be another of them.
it will be a cold day in you know where before this happens..
Originally Posted By: umungus1122
How do they plan on getting trucks in to deliver goods? Even small delivery vans are mostly diesel in Europe.
Agreed.
There's many bogus articles on the web. This seems to be another of them.
it will be a cold day in you know where before this happens..
I can smell it when an old diesel has passed by aswell. The newer ones with a DPF, no...
Originally Posted By: fxrider
Originally Posted By: Lolvoguy
Originally Posted By: umungus1122
How do they plan on getting trucks in to deliver goods? Even small delivery vans are mostly diesel in Europe.
Agreed.
There's many bogus articles on the web. This seems to be another of them.
it will be a cold day in you know where before this happens..
It's already happening. Must be frozen solid there.
Most cities in Germany already ban older vehicles, especially diesels. The bans get stricter every couple of years.
Antwerp starts a low emissions zone in 2 months. euro 2 diesels or older will not be permitted inside, euro 3 diesels without DPF have to pay a surcharge. In 2020 the euro 3 diesels with or without DPF will not be allowed anymore, euro 4 will have to pay a surcharge. In 2025 only euro 6 diesels will be allowed in without surcharge, and euro 4 or below will be outright banned.
Similar thing for gas engines, but much less strict. vehicles prior to 1992 will be banned in 2 months time, by 2025 vehicles prior to ca 2000 will be banned.
Originally Posted By: Lolvoguy
Originally Posted By: umungus1122
How do they plan on getting trucks in to deliver goods? Even small delivery vans are mostly diesel in Europe.
Agreed.
There's many bogus articles on the web. This seems to be another of them.
it will be a cold day in you know where before this happens..
It's already happening. Must be frozen solid there.
Most cities in Germany already ban older vehicles, especially diesels. The bans get stricter every couple of years.
Antwerp starts a low emissions zone in 2 months. euro 2 diesels or older will not be permitted inside, euro 3 diesels without DPF have to pay a surcharge. In 2020 the euro 3 diesels with or without DPF will not be allowed anymore, euro 4 will have to pay a surcharge. In 2025 only euro 6 diesels will be allowed in without surcharge, and euro 4 or below will be outright banned.
Similar thing for gas engines, but much less strict. vehicles prior to 1992 will be banned in 2 months time, by 2025 vehicles prior to ca 2000 will be banned.
No, they aren't exempt. Busses, freight and agricultural vehicles all fall under the rules.
In Antwerp, mopeds and motorcycles are exempt.
Oh and military + ambulances/police are exempt aswell.
In Antwerp, mopeds and motorcycles are exempt.
Oh and military + ambulances/police are exempt aswell.
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Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Surely freight and ag use vehicles would be exempt?
You are correct, Sir. (Eliminating diesel engine trucks ain't gonna happen.)
Surely freight and ag use vehicles would be exempt?
You are correct, Sir. (Eliminating diesel engine trucks ain't gonna happen.)
Last edited:
You're in denial. They're not exempt.
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Originally Posted By: Jetronic
I can smell it when an old diesel has passed by aswell. The newer ones with a DPF, no...
Agreed. After driving a diesel that has zero smell for over a year, I cannot stand the old diesel smell.
I can smell it when an old diesel has passed by aswell. The newer ones with a DPF, no...
Agreed. After driving a diesel that has zero smell for over a year, I cannot stand the old diesel smell.
So no trains, boats, planes, trucks, commercial vehicles, generators or construction equipment in the highest populated cities in the world...
Are they going to ban their military as well?
Are they going to ban their military as well?
Originally Posted By: krismoriah72
So no trains, boats, planes, trucks, commercial vehicles, generators or construction equipment in the highest populated cities in the world...
Are they going to ban their military as well?
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
No, they aren't exempt. Busses, freight and agricultural vehicles all fall under the rules.
In Antwerp, mopeds and motorcycles are exempt.
Oh and military + ambulances/police are exempt aswell.
Answered up-thread.
So no trains, boats, planes, trucks, commercial vehicles, generators or construction equipment in the highest populated cities in the world...
Are they going to ban their military as well?
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
No, they aren't exempt. Busses, freight and agricultural vehicles all fall under the rules.
In Antwerp, mopeds and motorcycles are exempt.
Oh and military + ambulances/police are exempt aswell.
Answered up-thread.
JHZR2
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This picture says it all. Look at the energy density of batteries (which I am an advocate of and work with quite a bit) versus liquid fuels. That's the difference in what I do - Im a believer in liquid fuels, just need the other technologies to work together to get best effect. Its not EV vs diesel vehicle or something like that, for the most part, IMO...
Then again, if you do have a lot of infrastructure (good or bad isn't the matter, its if its there and within a reasonable distance from anything else), then the cities are the place to push EV tech. Lots of stop and go, so good for energy recovery, lots of sitting and standing, which is where the anti-idle element comes in.
Im not a big believer in things like the Tesla. Im a big believer in hybrids (including decent PHEVs) and start-stop tech, as well as small charging APUs. I love the concept of the BMW i3, if people and rules in the US weren't so idiotic...
Diesel has better thermal efficiency and better longevity than gas engines do. That makes a big difference in heavy duty work, and even for many who want the most economical way to transport themselves around. I can't see how anything but perhaps a diesel electric (similar to a train) would work for heavy duty hauling vehicles, especially those who have to go outside the inner ring suburbs of a city. But within a city, EV tech could come to the head of the line as far as tech goes, because of no emissions (locally, the power plant is another story), instant torque, and intrinsic energy recovery. In many cities there are overhead lines for trollies and electric busses... Been that way since the early 1900s. Such infrastructure need not be everywhere, just prevalent enough that vehicles could top up smartly. Utilities could implement pricing the way they do for toll roads in high traffic areas, change the price as needed, so only those who MUST be somewhere buy at high peak, and the prices are way low when they can be.
Lots of opportunity if one looks for it.
EVs would make a lot of sense for a lot of users. The current grid in most areas wouldn't be able to support their widespread adoption, though, unless you could restrict their recharging to the hours between around 11:00 PM and 5:00 AM, when there is typically plenty of spare capacity, although that might not be the case on hot summer nights in most of the country, when everyone has the AC cranked up.
The concept of the BMW i3 or any other car with a small combustion engine to provide for extended range or even basic charging as required does make a lot of sense, but there is little market for it now or for the Volt, which is like an i3 on steroids. Fuel is just too cheap ATM.
The Tesla Model S is a truly great EV whether you believe in it or not. One of these offers the range to be a truly practical car in daily use and is an EV I could live with and use. One cloud on the horizon is that Tesla is doing away with free charging at its large network of charging locations.
Modern diesel passenger vehicles have no longer mechanical life than do modern SI passenger vehicles although they may offer lower fuel consumption. They also lack the simplicity that diesels of yore offered. You are probably thinking of the old W123s you and I both owned. These were stone-simple engines that needed nothing more than fuel and air to run. They would continue to do their no-power running for as long as you cared to drive them in years and miles. Those days are long past and modern light diesels are as much encumbered with computer control and emissions devices as any SI engine.
The concept of the BMW i3 or any other car with a small combustion engine to provide for extended range or even basic charging as required does make a lot of sense, but there is little market for it now or for the Volt, which is like an i3 on steroids. Fuel is just too cheap ATM.
The Tesla Model S is a truly great EV whether you believe in it or not. One of these offers the range to be a truly practical car in daily use and is an EV I could live with and use. One cloud on the horizon is that Tesla is doing away with free charging at its large network of charging locations.
Modern diesel passenger vehicles have no longer mechanical life than do modern SI passenger vehicles although they may offer lower fuel consumption. They also lack the simplicity that diesels of yore offered. You are probably thinking of the old W123s you and I both owned. These were stone-simple engines that needed nothing more than fuel and air to run. They would continue to do their no-power running for as long as you cared to drive them in years and miles. Those days are long past and modern light diesels are as much encumbered with computer control and emissions devices as any SI engine.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Diesel elimination was being discussed on a BBC radio show this morning. Government officials, Scania and Mercedes representatives participated. The consensus being this is now reality and will spread to other locations without fail. The fact that many bitogers fail to see the logic not withstanding. This move will be exorbitantly expensive.
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Surely freight and ag use vehicles would be exempt?
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
No, they aren't exempt. Busses, freight and agricultural vehicles all fall under the rules.
In Antwerp, mopeds and motorcycles are exempt.
Oh and military + ambulances/police are exempt aswell.
Originally Posted By: linkbelt
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Surely freight and ag use vehicles would be exempt?
You are correct, Sir. (Eliminating diesel engine trucks ain't gonna happen.)
So they are or aren't exempt?
Surely freight and ag use vehicles would be exempt?
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
No, they aren't exempt. Busses, freight and agricultural vehicles all fall under the rules.
In Antwerp, mopeds and motorcycles are exempt.
Oh and military + ambulances/police are exempt aswell.
Originally Posted By: linkbelt
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Surely freight and ag use vehicles would be exempt?
You are correct, Sir. (Eliminating diesel engine trucks ain't gonna happen.)
So they are or aren't exempt?
Only exempt if they carry military license plates, or are police/ambulance/fire department vehicles.
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