Fork oil differences besides viscosity?

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Mar 17, 2024
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So flipping through stuff on fork oil, it seems like almost the entire conversation is always about viscosity, which sure is important, but that is also like a 20 second sound blip: check the cst viscosity @40c and select one for your needs. Moving on.

I am trying to find out other properties of fork oils, like what is their base oil made from? Mineral? Synthetic? How well do they act as lubricants? How long do they hold up? What additives do they have for anti foaming? What additivies friction modifiers do they use? It seems like the entire field of fork oil is just pretty much an unregulated field full of snake oil, maybe even literally snake oil... Also, price and quality dont SEEM to have much overlap here, stuff marketed as full synthetics and something possibly made from rendered roadkill can be within a few percentage of each other on cost, or maybe even second hand Bambi juice is marketed and priced as the premium product.

So for the more experienced out there, what do you go by? Any brands that are known to lubricate better and hold up longer? Any guidelines? Or is it all just trial and error? Or should I just get a bucket of AeroShell fluid 31 for the lighterweight needs and use high quality synthetic engine oil for the hamfisted heavier stuff around the right viscosity and call it a day?

Edit: After watching this video discussing how viscosity index and lubricity have a fairly inverse relationship, and knowing that fork oil is usually not much above ambient temp, fork oil marketing heavily emphasizing the importance of their high VI rating seems even more like a bunch of hokum, and that getting a good lubricating oil with good anti foaming properties and long term stability would be a lot more important than high viscosity index, at least for street bike forks:



Is there something I am missing here? Because the more I look into this the more I think I should just ignore "fork oil" for my street bike and just grab something like Mobil1 0W-8 which has a cst of 23 @40C or about what is commonly referred to as 5wt-7wt fork oil, or Mobil1 0W-16 which has a cst of 39.5 @40C or about what is commonly referred to as 7wt-10wt fork oil.
 
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This is more of a general discussion than specific, however my current project is increasing spring rate and preload by a significant margin in an FJR1300ES that has one fork for rebound and one for compression and lacks independant rebound/compression control. Since I am already at max damping to reach correct rebound damping before the spring upgrade I am planning on increasing the viscosity in the rebound leg and decreasing the viscosity in the compression leg. It is possible I will do some revalving as well, but information on that is incredibly limited on these bikes, so until I have it apart I won't know how viable that is, so I am going into it planning on making the changes I need with oil viscosity.
 
Years back I had a '81 Honda Goldwing, that I felt needed a fork oil change. I had no idea if the oil had ever been changed. Bought a manual to see what they recommended. It said to use ATF. Nothing fancy, just some cheap ol ATF. It seems it was due for a change because it was a night and day difference in the ride. I also used it in y old '96 Harley cop bike. Worked like a charm. Maybe if you own a hp race / t rack bike, using some super duper fork oil will probably work really good for you. But if your just using your bike for normal riding around, ATF would be hard to beat.,,,
 
Years back I had a '81 Honda Goldwing, that I felt needed a fork oil change. I had no idea if the oil had ever been changed. Bought a manual to see what they recommended. It said to use ATF. Nothing fancy, just some cheap ol ATF. It seems it was due for a change because it was a night and day difference in the ride. I also used it in y old '96 Harley cop bike. Worked like a charm. Maybe if you own a hp race / t rack bike, using some super duper fork oil will probably work really good for you. But if your just using your bike for normal riding around, ATF would be hard to beat.,,,

Generally I think that ATF has a lot of the properties of good fork oil, however ATF needs to maintain a certain level of friction, and motorcycle fork oil should be as slippery as possible. Possibly combining it with something like Moly or PTFE might improve things, I don't know for sure.
 
Generally I think that ATF has a lot of the properties of good fork oil, however ATF needs to maintain a certain level of friction, and motorcycle fork oil should be as slippery as possible. Possibly combining it with something like Moly or PTFE might improve things, I don't know for sure.
Many forks called for ATF back in the day. But a bottle of decent fork oil is only a few dollars more than decent ATF.
 
Interesting question for sure, I have nothing to offer as far as knowledge on this topic. Just along for the ride.
 
Many forks called for ATF back in the day. But a bottle of decent fork oil is only a few dollars more than decent ATF.
Thats the whole point of this thread though, what is a bottle of good fork oil and how do you know?
 
My old 80's motorcycles spec'd ATF. My more current motorcycles spec Honda fork oil of a specific viscosity. What's the difference? Dunno? But, for the small amount that is required, I'll just buy the branded fork oil and move on.

I've been looking at swapping in some new progressive springs and dual rate valves. The manufacturer of the valves recommends (and sells) a certain fork oil to use with their valves. It's nothing special, just one of the name brands of fork oil. The price isn't bad, so I'll most likely just order some from them.
 
FWIW here are some previous threads on this topic:

 
FWIW here are some previous threads on this topic:


Actually no, those arnt on the same topic at all. I was looking for the differences in fork oils and other fluids BESIDES viscosity.

If you read through those you will find almost every post about the fluid itself in every one is about viscosity or viscosity index. The exceptions are questions about seal compatibility and possibly fork oil using more anti foaming agents vs ATF or other oils that are never answered.

As far as I can tell motorcycle fork oil is close to the most expensive vehicle fluid consumers can buy, yet it can seemingly be replaced by just about any oil that is about the right viscosity. Besides viscosity, advertised differences between fork oils seem to be mostly marketing hype without much substance behind them, with claims that dont seem to mean anything and very little solid data or regulated specifications, even though there must be some differences that are not very well advertised.

Is it all hokum designed to get you to spend more money on an inferior product? Or is fork oil actually better in forks than just using ATF, engine oil, or other machine oil of the right viscosity? If so what makes fork oil better and how would we know which fork oils are better or worse and for what reasons?
 
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I suppose, but at some point for me the question would be how much the correct fluid costs and how much are you using. Kind of like the Haldex fluid for my VW, it's only a liter or so every 30,000 miles, so I pay the exorbitant price and be done with it.
 
Fork oil has one primary job, go though a small orifice in the fork assembly to dampen the bumps. That is it. And the viscosity plays a big role how easily or difficult it goes though that orifice, hence affects the damping performance.

As far as lubricating etc, that is all secondary and not really important. If you ever disassembled some forks, they are very simple devices with some sliding parts and springs. Some will have bronze bushings or teflon coated ones, that are wear items and need to be changed when they are worn. No particular oil type will save them.

Also, there is no industry standard for fork oil, even the viscosity is not standardized. One manufacturer's 10w oil may not be of the same viscosity as another's 10w oil.
 
I suppose, but at some point for me the question would be how much the correct fluid costs and how much are you using. Kind of like the Haldex fluid for my VW, it's only a liter or so every 30,000 miles, so I pay the exorbitant price and be done with it.

Again, what makes the fluid "correct"? As I asked before:

Is it all hokum designed to get you to spend more money on an inferior product? Or is fork oil actually better in forks than just using ATF, engine oil, or other machine oil of the right viscosity? If so what makes fork oil better and how would we know which fork oils are better or worse and for what reasons?


Also, there is no industry standard for fork oil, even the viscosity is not standardized. One manufacturer's 10w oil may not be of the same viscosity as another's 10w oil.

Yes, although I am not sure why this subject seems to almost completely dominate every conversation about fork oil, but it seems very simple, the number on the front of the bottle is meaningless for forks, as I said in my original post:
So flipping through stuff on fork oil, it seems like almost the entire conversation is always about viscosity, which sure is important, but that is also like a 20 second sound blip: check the cst viscosity @40c and select one for your needs. Moving on.

Fork oil has one primary job, go though a small orifice in the fork assembly to dampen the bumps. That is it. And the viscosity plays a big role how easily or difficult it goes though that orifice, hence affects the damping performance.

As far as lubricating etc, that is all secondary and not really important. If you ever disassembled some forks, they are very simple devices with some sliding parts and springs. Some will have bronze bushings or teflon coated ones, that are wear items and need to be changed when they are worn. No particular oil type will save them.

Ok, we are on a website that specializes in the minutie of oil, it doesnt seem to be too much to ask here to get into the specifics of fork oils a bit.

So as far as I can tell for fork oil we need the right viscosity at about 40C or less, we need something to hold up for a good while through decent sheer forces and being shoved through small orifices and shim stacks at not much above ambient temp, and something that doesnt foam up or ruin seals. After that "stiction" (combination of sticking and friction) is a huge thing in the suspension industry, so we also want a fork oil with good lubrication that minimizes friction and wear.

As discussed most street forks, and even race forks, seem to usually operate in a fairly narrow temp range so a high viscosity index doesn't seem very important, even though that is often greatly stressed in fork oil advertising. We don't need a specific amount of friction like ATF does, as far as I can tell the less friction the better.

Unless I am missing something, none of these requirements seems particularly difficult or wildly counter to each other. So again, what is the deal with fork oil and why does seem like the advertising for it skips almost all the important info, or what could differentiate it from its competitors, and what they do tell you might as well be selling you vague cures for the bubonic plague?
 
So again, what is the deal with fork oil and why does seem like the advertising for it skips almost all the important info, or what could differentiate it from its competitors, and what they do tell you might as well be selling you vague cures for the bubonic plague?
I think the main deal is that it is not standardized, therefore there are no standard set of tests to compare to.
The other deal is that motorcycle riders are a very small group when compared to cars, trucks and SUVs. The market share is just too small to attract any sort of technical discussion.

And final, IMO, it's just fork oil. Similar to power steering fluid for example. Not much info on that in the car world.
 
If you're asking about "sheer" forces I think I better understand where you're coming from in this thread.

Honestly I am just asking for any differences that someone of my understanding level of oils, which is low, might not be aware of.

Motorcycle suspension damping valves are like stacks of very thin washers, and fork damping cartridges achieve their damping by some combination of shoving the oil against these stacks hard enough to get them to deflect and let the oil past, and/or shoving oil through holes as you see more often in damper rod suspensions.
 
I think the main deal is that it is not standardized, therefore there are no standard set of tests to compare to.
The other deal is that motorcycle riders are a very small group when compared to cars, trucks and SUVs. The market share is just too small to attract any sort of technical discussion.

I suppose, which is why I keep keep coming back to this:
Is it all hokum designed to get you to spend more money on an inferior product? Or is fork oil actually better in forks than just using ATF, engine oil, or other machine oil of the right viscosity? If so what makes fork oil better and how would we know which fork oils are better or worse and for what reasons?

So far it all appears to be a bunch of hokum as far as I can tell, and other fluids seem to work just as well if not better while being significantly cheaper.
 
In my experience, the items aside from viscosity, that were considered during formulating fork oils were these, in this order:

1. Low shear
2. Low friction
3. Wear resistance
4. Anti-foam
5. Anti-oxidation

Anti-foam and anti-oxidation are both very important, but they are just so dang easy to incorporate into the formula, it didn't require any effort with regard to formulation. The shear, friction, and wear resistance is where you might see differences from brand to brand.

As @KrisZ mentioned, the wear resistance is nice, but the parts that experience are meant to be changed out anyway. So you may see longer life of those parts with a better formulated product.

Friction and "stiction" you might feel a difference, most probably won't though.

Shear stability is one that will almost definitely vary from high quality to low quality products. Formulating in shear stability costs $$$. No way around it.

The other thing to keep in mind is that fork oil, and fork performance in general, is completely subjective and the only aspect that riders feel from the oil is the effects from the viscosity.
 
I posted earlier about Honda saying to use ATF in the goldwings forks . Then I remembered about when I had an old Harley Police bike, and changed the fork fluid on that. It came out black and smelled like death. I went to the dealer and bought Harley's fork fluid that they have made for them, by some oil blender. It looked and smelled just like ATF. I put some in glass and compared them side by side, and couldn't tell the difference. I know on the bottles of fork fluid they say things like heavy duty, or even call it Race fluid. I believe that the only difference is one is just slightly thicker that the other.,,
 
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