For those that still defend K&N

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: bigmike
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: bigmike
I don't think anyone is convinced either. However, I've noticed the following:

1. In the Oil Filter section, FRAM is the one that gets dumped on.
2. In the Coolant section, DEXCOOL gets dumped on.
3. In the Air Filter section, K&N gets dumped on.
4. In the Oil Additives section, ZMAX gets dumped on.

One of the reasons is, all those products are more expensive then competitors.

Why should I pay more for Fram when I get similar or better filter from Purolator or Man ?

Why should I pay more for DEXCOOL when I get similar or better coolant from Peak or Zerex ?

Why should I pay a lot more for K&N when I get air filter from dealer or any other after market that filter better and no oiling is needed ?

Why should I pay $30-40 for an unproven productive Zmax when I can buy Lubromoly MOS2 for less than $5 ?


What does your argument have to do with the unfair representation these said products receive? If you have no experience with them or information to share, other than price points, I suggest there is little more to continue arguing over.


There are many cut open Fram Extra Guard filters with not so good construction compares with other filters. According to price list of various '04 Honda S2000 filters on Rockauto, the price of Mann is $2.52, Bosch Premium is $3.46 and Fram Extra Guard is $4.14 which is about 60% more than Mann.

If you want to pay $4.xx for a worse filter instead of $2.xx for a better filter is your choice. Fram and K&N got a lot of bashing on this board because their products are inferior and more expensive than others. The only thing they are good at is marketing.

 

[bigmike]

Fram and K&N "got" (and still get) alot of bashing because some people complained and others repeat their complaints like sheep.

It is a growing trend on BITOG with many products and that's been my point. There is no valid argument to prove me wrong in this case - it simply exists and it is true.

I simply wish people would contribute their experience, expertise, information, data, studies, or some other significant matter rather than repeat without investigation.

 

[SteveSRT8]

And the real truth here is: if you really truly believe it, then it's true!

Nifty we have choices, eh?

 

[deeter16317]

I would be curious to know how old that filter actually is...not age in use, but date of manufacture?

I had a K&N on two of my vehicles, the latest one would have been almost 10 years ago on a 99 Dodge Cummins...it looked similar to the OP's pictures. However, I recently had my hands on a K&N; and it appeared much different than the ones' I had in my trucks.

Did they change?

 

[bigmike]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
And the real truth here is: if you really truly believe it, then it's true!

Nifty we have choices, eh?


Anyone can read and find this to be valid. I read most of the forum subjects here and could cite an example from most of them of people stating something but have no experience with the product.

I don't see the 'choice' when it comes to facts.

 

[bigmike]

Originally Posted By: deeter16317
I would be curious to know how old that filter actually is...not age in use, but date of manufacture?

I had a K&N on two of my vehicles, the latest one would have been almost 10 years ago on a 99 Dodge Cummins...it looked similar to the OP's pictures. However, I recently had my hands on a K&N; and it appeared much different than the ones' I had in my trucks.

Did they change?


I'd like to know if they have changed their manufacturing process or products as well. I've examined both filters installed in my applications and they are high quality, in my opinion. Do I believe the drop in filter for my Honda is better than OEM - No. OEM is built like a tank and is of better quality.

I couldn't tell you much about the difference between OEM and K&N on my truck. I changed the intake so long ago I don't recall, but the filter should have been manufactured in 2006 or '07. However, I have cleaned the filter once and it's been installed close to 50k miles, but looks great. I've never seen a filter as bad as the one posted by Widman.

 

[Tornado Red]

Originally Posted By: kr_bitog
Cons:
3. The filter is not good on filtering very fine dust, so engine oil getting dirtier sooner even though when you wipe the throttle body it looks clean


You don't need any other reason for avoiding K&N air filters. This is the one and only reason to even have an air filter -- to keep dirt out of your engine.

What you want is an air filter that does the best possible job of removing all impurities from the air. The cost of replacement filters is insignificant, compared to the expense of replacing an engine 50k or 100k miles prematurely.

I do not know who posted this first, but I have never forgotten: the air filter is far more important than the oil filter or the fuel filter. That is not to say that there are no benefits to be obtained from using the best oil filters or fuel filters -- ideally a motorist who wants his car or truck to last a long time will only use the best filters and lubricants.

 

[widman]

Quote:

I do not know who posted this first, but I have never forgotten: the air filter is far more important than the oil filter or the fuel filter. That is not to say that there are no benefits to be obtained from using the best oil filters or fuel filters -- ideally a motorist who wants his car or truck to last a long time will only use the best filters and lubricants.


It comes from a well known and used engineering principle. It is cheaper (and better) to prevent contamination than to remove it.

 

[ltslimjim]

I wouldn't use K&N if I were in a dusty environment, but if my UOA start getting an increase in silicon, I'll probably go back to OEM filtration.

 

[Ken2]

Originally Posted By: kr_bitog
As any air filter, K&N has his own pro and cons:
Pro:
1. Better airflow (less resistance) during low and mid rpm compared to most paper filter
2. The more you use the more it will filter better
Nonsense.

1--The airflow at low and mid rpm doesn't matter. It is only max airflow at wide open throttle and high rpm that matters. If the throttle isn't wide open, the throttle butterfly is doing its job by restricting the airflow (in a gasoline engine, of course). Max airflow only matters to give maybe an extra hp or two at peak; the mass airflow sensor and other computer gizmos regulate the air/fuel ratio to keep the engine running as it should. Low to mid rpm airflow is not stressing the intake system, and it'll flow all the air that the engine can take. Even in a turbodiesel engine, the airflow is only maxed out when the fuel charge is at max, the engine is at high rpms, and the turbocharger is screaming. At other times the flow through the intake isn't stressed and there is plenty of air.

2--Well, if it filters better when clogged with dirt, then it is restricting air flow. Make up your mind. If it doesn't filter excellently when clean, why would anyone want it???

 

[slickrocko1]

for my Cummins....K&N no way, too expensive an engine, too much junk let through. My engine is my life, and I don't want to endanger it. YES, I did run one for 20,000 miles when the engine was new, and it never had the flow meter go to change. That mean't it was not getting the dirt and junk out of the air. My paper filters are showing flow restriction at about 3000 miles and changed every 5000.

 

[widman]

Originally Posted By: slickrocko1
for my Cummins....K&N no way, too expensive an engine, too much junk let through. My engine is my life, and I don't want to endanger it. YES, I did run one for 20,000 miles when the engine was new, and it never had the flow meter go to change. That meant it was not getting the dirt and junk out of the air. My paper filters are showing flow restriction at about 3000 miles and changed every 5000.


If you are showing restrictions at 3000 miles, either your filter is too restrictive or too small, or you have some other restriction. Maybe like the snorkel I saw last week that was a 2" tube when the air intake was 3 1/2".

 

[GeorgeGear]

Originally Posted By: slickrocko1
for my Cummins.... [...] My paper filters are showing flow restriction at about 3000 miles and changed every 5000.

Slick - you might want to consider leaving your filters quite a bit longer, unless you are really driving in a LOT of dust. Normally, an air filter at 5,000 miles is almost new, and has barely started accumulating a dust cake, which is critical to filtration efficiency. If you swap filters too quickly you never get them to become efficient at filtration.

Like Richard, I am surprised by your statement abt flow restriction showing at 3,000. Of course, if you are driving in boocoo (beaucoup) dust, that's another matter