First time home buyer looking for advice

[Vibe_2007]

Just received a home inspection report on the home we are in the process of purchasing. It is an older house and very little problems were found. The biggest problems the inspector noted were hot wires in the attic not going to a junction box, ungrounded electrical system (two prong outlets), and 60 amp service, not 100 amp.

I was quoted a cost to upgrade to 100 amp service of $2000 and more to add a few outlets that are grounded. The two prong outlets bug me because I would be worried about damage to laptops, tablets, plasma TV and other electrical equipment. It is NOT knob and tube wiring, I do know that much.

Is it unreasonable for us to approach the seller and help us to upgrade to 100 amp service and fix the hazardous wiring in the attic?

I've never bought a home before and it is quite a process.

 

[Boomer]

Everything is negotiable. Make an offer contingent on them paying to fix the electrical system. If they really want to sell, this is just a small price to pay to move the house!! When I sold mine three years ago, the buyer wanted a UV treatment put on the well water and we did indeed pay for that. All they can do is say no and then you make another offer.

 

[Oldasco]

Anything is negotiable. Read your contract, it might already be in your contract that the seller is on the hook to do the repairs.

 

[spk2000]

Depends on cost of the house and how much they want to sell it but normally you can try to negotiate about anything you want to. I highly recommend pointing out that the house has safety standards concerns by modern electrical standards and that should go a long ways. If they will not help out then it is your call whether or not you want to take it and upgrade yourself.

 

[eljefino]

That's all minor stuff and the inspector's throwing his weight around. Hopefully he's good at structural stuff like sills, roof, etc.

If you have metal conduit and wall boxes grounding them will be easy. If you can't, use a GFCI breaker marked "no equipment ground", it will trip if any power going out doesn't come back and is the code fix for this issue.

60 amp was the thing back in the day and grandfathered in as are the two prong outlets. So while it's not current code it was fine and is not required to be upgraded.

If you look at your laptop, blu-ray etc you'll find 2 prongs on many of those devices plugs anyway.

It's a slow housing market so make your offer. If you already made an offer contingent on passing inspection, go for the whole $2000 off. Nothing sounds like a glaring safety issue so you might be able to fix it cheaper yourself or bring in an electrician when you get time and money.

If you have gas hot water/ stove/ dryer 60 amps will probably do you fine anyway.

Keep your offer short and sweet. The seller already has a target price in mind, you'll either make it or you won't. Now that they're emotionally attached to selling you can probably squeeze another couple grand out of them.

 

[bepperb]

It's normal to have the seller fix the items that are not to code (wiring in attic) but they don't have to help you with the 60 amp service. Did you give them "right to cure" in the offer to purchase?

In your situation you might estimate the cost of fixing the wiring in the attic and ask for they money, or that they fix it. I doubt they will cough up 1000 dollars to upgrade the panel since that part seems to be to code (at the time is was installed).

It is quite the process but you're pretty far into it. One step at a time and after a couple it's old hat.

 

[Donald]

When you say "hot" wires, I assume you mean live wires not terminating in a junction box? Thats a 5 minute fix to screw on a wire nut and pop them in a box. As opposed to wires that were hot to the touch?

If the wiring to outlets is BX cable then the metal armor is ground and you can easily install grounded outlets. If its plastic sheathed wire hopefully it has a ground and only the outlets are ungrounded.

If everything is gas (water, dryer, stove) and no water pump, even 60 amp should be OK.

To upgrade you have to install new circuit breaker box, entrance wire, meter box and coordinate with power company.

 

[Doog]

Tell them you want $4000 off and get your own electrician to upgrade it to your standards.

 

[bepperb]

Originally Posted By: Doog
Tell them you want $4000 off and get your own electrician to upgrade it to your standards.


The problem is that you don't get to choose the standards. Sure you can ask for the house to be painted pink, but they can say no and keep your earnest money and move on to the next buyer. Your offer to purchase should have been contingent on a home inspector finding the house to code. You may or may not have given them the right to cure any issues, either way they have to fix the house to code or give you money to bring it to code, not to rebuild the house to "as new" condition.

Of course you can ask for anything you want, but the time to be a dirtbag was when you were negotiating the purchase price not now that you're scrapping over a three digit number to get some two prong outlets replaced with three prongers.

I'd also agree that assuming the wiring is BX (metal clad) replacing just the outlet and pigtailing the ground into the metal box would be an accepted resolution. Now replacing the 60 amp panel with 100 amps would be quite the deal since that will require the power company disconnecting and an electrician moving the service.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted By: bepperb


Of course you can ask for anything you want, but the time to be a dirtbag was when you were negotiating the purchase price not now that you're scrapping over a three digit number to get some two prong outlets replaced with three prongers.
....
IME sellers are the dirtbags and buyers are the innocents 99% of the time. Whomever buys MY house of 21 years let the buyers beware!

 

[mrsilv04]

It would be a good thing to upgrade to a 100 amp service. Here, it is required before a house can exchange hands.

Are you still watching a black and white TV, and driving a 1954 Chevy? Of course not.

 

[Vibe_2007]

Thank you for all the responses.

I am already going to eat the cost of replacing temporary jack posts in the crawlspace and the encapsulation of the dirt down there, insulating the sill plates, piping, etc. so I am going to approach the seller for the 2000 reimbursement on the electrical side of things.

Plus I have to have a roofer install soffit vents and possibly a ridge vent to protect this nearly new roof on the property.

The home has been on the market for 5 months now and had one other offer we competed with and it evidently was a low-ball one, so I do think thy are emotionally invested in selling at this time.

At the very most, I will contribute 1000 dollars to the electrical so there might be something amiable there.

The worst they can do is say no anyways.

Thanks guys for the help,

Jon

 

[PandaBear]

Negotiate down the price, they may say no and you may walk away, you may find another house that you like better and they may find a seller that don't mind it.

When I bought my house the seller wants to take away EVERY curtains, not fix the garage door that was dented (by their SUV years ago), and some light fixtures. We negotiate and was about to walk away and they wouldn't budge. In the end the real estate agents agree to pay for the difference ($900) and not buy us a big screen TV (a common practice in the industry after closing the deal).

Everyone is happy.

 

[Quest]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear
... In the end the real estate agents agree to pay for the difference ($900) and not buy us a big screen TV (a common practice in the industry after closing the deal).

Everyone is happy.


Wow! A big screen TeeVee as part of the closing deal?! Lemme see: when I got our house: I got 3K cash kickbacks from my agent, an additional 2K Ikea gift card, and also he helped sweetened the deal during negotiation by him putting in 4.5K (to meet 1/2 way between the initial negotiating price and my final offering price) out of his pocket.

Q.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: Quest
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
... In the end the real estate agents agree to pay for the difference ($900) and not buy us a big screen TV (a common practice in the industry after closing the deal).

Everyone is happy.


Wow! A big screen TeeVee as part of the closing deal?! Lemme see: when I got our house: I got 3K cash kickbacks from my agent, an additional 2K Ikea gift card, and also he helped sweetened the deal during negotiation by him putting in 4.5K (to meet 1/2 way between the initial negotiating price and my final offering price) out of his pocket.

Q.


It all depends, it is the common practice here a decade ago, but we have our agent and the seller has his, so the agents have to split commission. So in the end it all depends.

Some agent flat out saying that they will refund 1% of the sales from their commission (3% ?), but our agent helped us out a lot in the process by showing us at least 60 houses before we found this one, so we stick with her.

 

[zerosoma]

Originally Posted By: Vibe_2007
Just received a home inspection report on the home we are in the process of purchasing. It is an older house and very little problems were found. The biggest problems the inspector noted were hot wires in the attic not going to a junction box, ungrounded electrical system (two prong outlets), and 60 amp service, not 100 amp.

I was quoted a cost to upgrade to 100 amp service of $2000 and more to add a few outlets that are grounded. The two prong outlets bug me because I would be worried about damage to laptops, tablets, plasma TV and other electrical equipment. It is NOT knob and tube wiring, I do know that much.

Is it unreasonable for us to approach the seller and help us to upgrade to 100 amp service and fix the hazardous wiring in the attic?

I've never bought a home before and it is quite a process.



Sioux Falls! YAHOOO!!!! A Bitoger from Sioux Falls? Sweeeeet!!!

 

[Schmoe]

If it's that old, you may have aluminum wires wrapped around asbestos. Do you have any 9X9 floor tile? that's asbestos. You could also have lead paint issues.

 

[rjundi]

Definitely ask.

My prior owner paid about 5% accepted offer to fix items like septic, water treatment, asbestos pipe insulation removal in the final sale of my home.

The electrical stuff should have been noticed in the seller disclosure as you list service and outlet types are quite obvious walking around.

If something is broken they should pay.

 

[itguy08]

Ask them to fix the issues in the attic and give you $2k towards the service upgrade. With our first place we had a similar issue in the attic. 12 years later when we sold it, I popped them in junction boxes. It's not a big of a deal.

Not sure about any emotional attachment. When we sold ours, the emotional attachment was to the Benjamins. I had the # in mind and if it wasn't that it wasn't going for less. When we bought, same thing - there will be other houses.

 

[chastn]

Get it fixed before you buy or get a significant discount (more than 2000) off the price of the house. Unless it is a very small house, get more that 100 amp service. Around here, the standard is 200 amp. My house was built in 1963 and had 200 amp service and three pronged plugs when I bought it. I had the box replaced(it had punch outs not covered and no way to get covers) I also had the entire house rewired. A 200 amp box with a small selection of breakers was around $100 at Home Depot a few years ago. I would expect it would be around 125 or more now with another 50 for extra breakers.
Check to see if it is cloth covered wire or not. When I had mine rewired, every light socket showed signs of burning of insulation off the wires from using 100 watt bulbs through the years. The electrician told me that you should never use over 60 watt bulbs in a flush mounted light socket in older homes. If it is aluminum, get it replaced. Anyway, tht is just my two cents worth.