Filter draining back = low pressure on startup?

HawkeyeScott

HawkeyeScott

Joined
Jan 11, 2007
Messages
981
Location
El Oeste
1998 Rav4 with the inline 2.0. 108K miles.

Oil filter is mounted on the front of the engine and is oriented downward. Oil light comes on for about four seconds on each cold start. (There is no oil gauge.) When I've removed the filter, little if any oil runs out, showing that the oil has drained back down into the motor. To date, I've used the SuperTech white can that fits this model. It did the same thing when I first bought it and had a Jiffy Lube jobber filter installed.

There aren't a lot of online posts on this issue with this vehicle, but it appears others have noticed the same thing and at least one poster said he wasn't able to solve it by changing out filters.

Should this be happening? Should I try a different filter just to see what comes of it? Is this just a fact of life with this application? Is four seconds that big of a deal?

Thanks a lot.
 
HawkeyeScott said:
Oil filter is mounted on the front of the engine and is oriented downward. Oil light comes on for about four seconds on each cold start. (There is no oil gauge.) When I've removed the filter, little if any oil runs out, showing that the oil has drained back down into the motor.
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And people think that an ADBV with a filter mounted vertical with the base up doesn't matter.

Do any of the filters you've used have a silicone ADBV?
 
ZeeOSix said:
And people think that an ADBV with a filter mounted vertical with the base up doesn't matter.

Do any of the filters you've used have a silicone ADBV?
Click to expand...
Not yet, only nitrile. But I’m cleaning up
some coke in this engine and have swapped out filters every 1200 miles or so to see how that’s going. The nitrile has been soft and supple each time. So unless nitrile just doesn’t work…
 
HawkeyeScott said:
Not yet, only nitrile. But I’m cleaning up
some coke in this engine and have swapped out filters every 1200 miles or so to see how that’s going. The nitrile has been soft and supple each time. So unless nitrile just doesn’t work…
Click to expand...
Can depend on how the ADBV seals on the base plate, regardless if it's nitrile or silicone. If it's a bad design, or there's a flaw that doesn't cause a full seal, then the ADBV can leak, even if it's silicone.

How much crud is being caught in the filter? If it's a lot, possible that some of the prevents the ADBV from sealing well when the engine is off.
 
ZeeOSix said:
Can depend on how the ADBV seals on the base plate, regardless if it's nitrile or silicone. If it's a bad design, or there's a flaw that doesn't cause a full seal, then the ADBV can leak, even if it's silicone.

How much crud is being caught in the filter? If it's a lot, possible that some of the prevents the ADBV from sealing well when the engine is off.
Click to expand...
Not a lot of material. Enough initially to fill some pleats about 1/4 of the their height. I’m ahout 3300 miles into a MaxLife run and on the third filter. The last one had less than the previous.
 
HawkeyeScott said:
1998 Rav4 with the inline 2.0. 108K miles.

Oil filter is mounted on the front of the engine and is oriented downward. Oil light comes on for about four seconds on each cold start. (There is no oil gauge.) When I've removed the filter, little if any oil runs out, showing that the oil has drained back down into the motor. To date, I've used the SuperTech white can that fits this model. It did the same thing when I first bought it and had a Jiffy Lube jobber filter installed.

There aren't a lot of online posts on this issue with this vehicle, but it appears others have noticed the same thing and at least one poster said he wasn't able to solve it by changing out filters.

Should this be happening? Should I try a different filter just to see what comes of it? Is this just a fact of life with this application? Is four seconds that big of a deal?

Thanks a lot.
Click to expand...
Oriented downward. You mean the base of the filter is lowest? Or is it upside down?
 
If the consensus is that the SuperTech's ADBV setup is lacking, any suggestions on what to filter to try next? I'm mostly using Fram Ultra Synthetics on my other applications.
 
HawkeyeScott said:
If the consensus is that the SuperTech's ADBV setup is lacking, any suggestions on what to filter to try next? I'm mostly using Fram Ultra Synthetics on my other applications.
Click to expand...
Here's something similar
9

Thread 'No oil in filter after removal - '99 Camry (5S-FE 2.2L)'

Due to the filter's location (see photo), I expected a sea of oil to run down the block. I prepared the area underneath with disposable towels, etc. When I pulled the filter off, not a drop came out-- inside or outside the filter. Can't really see much at all inside the filter and if I turn it upside down, nothing comes out. In all my years of changing oil on various makes/engines, this is a first for me; there is always some mess or residual oil hanging around.

I'm a little intrigued by this. Filter in question is a Fram Ultra/XL (whatever the expensive gold can is called) and the...
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I've had this happen on Toyotas with Pentius and Fram filters....unscrew 'em and they're dry. I was a toyota dealer tech 25 years ago and have changed lots of oil filters that were halfway upside down on the 5SFE/3SFE, 3VZ, etc....the OEM filters were never dry when I removed them. Get a dealer filter.

As a side note, the ADBV on the pentius stuff I've had issues with had a bit of a memory to it. I could fold it in half and it would take a minute or so on the bench to fully relax back to it's natural shape.....filter is empty by then.
 
Snagglefoot said:
Check posting #8. The OP confirms the base is down. :)
Click to expand...
He said: "Oil filter is mounted on the front of the engine and is oriented downward."

Figured he literally meant the front, but it sounds like it actually mounted on the top of the engine.

I'd suggest trying a Carquest Premium or MicroGard Select - both use a silicone ADBV.
 
HawkeyeScott said:
Not a lot of material. Enough initially to fill some pleats about 1/4 of the their height. I’m ahout 3300 miles into a MaxLife run and on the third filter. The last one had less than the previous.
Click to expand...
Pleats filled 1/4 full is a lot of crud when most filters hardly show any chunks large enough to see with 10K+ oil changes.
 
A silicone ADBV could certainly be superior, but more importantly, I'd try a filter with a completely different design, especially the ADBV. Others on this board who are familiar with Toyota filters can help with that.

FUN QUIZ!
A car engine is exclusively lubricated by motor oil, correct? (Think it through before reading further.)

_________________________________________

Turns out no. The first couple seconds it's a zinc lubricated engine, with surfaces coated with sacrificial zinc rubbing against each other, then quickly becoming oil-lubed thereafter. Motor oils typically contain about 1,000 parts per million zinc dialkyldithiophosphate or "ZDDP." :-)
 
If the engine is dirty maybe the oil pump is worn. It would be good to see the actual oil pressure. Four seconds is a little long but it is a 98, may have been this way a long time. There is a timing belt so don’t have to worry about a worn chain not getting oil at start up and making a racket.
One advantage here is you can swap oil filters and not waste oil. A Purolator L14476 or 7 red can has a silicone adbv and are pretty cheap, like $6 sometimes.
 
lbhsbz said:
I've had this happen on Toyotas with Pentius and Fram filters....unscrew 'em and they're dry. I was a toyota dealer tech 25 years ago and have changed lots of oil filters that were halfway upside down on the 5SFE/3SFE, 3VZ, etc....the OEM filters were never dry when I removed them. Get a dealer filter.

As a side note, the ADBV on the pentius stuff I've had issues with had a bit of a memory to it. I could fold it in half and it would take a minute or so on the bench to fully relax back to it's natural shape.....filter is empty by then.
Click to expand...

Of course the filters were dry. The Toyota filters you used all those years have silicone adbv hence they were holding the oil .. Those Pentius you were using have the rubber adbv's.
 
I suggest buying a completely different filter construction altogether, and therefore hopefully a different ADBV construction.

Props to Rock Auto images, this filter is identical to your SuperTech ST4967: AC Delco PF1233. Avoid it.

This filter is somewhat similar to your ST: Fram PH4967. Avoid it.

These filters have different baseplates and lower end construction from your ST. Try any of these and see if your 4 seconds with no oil pressure stops:

-Bosch 72229WS and 3311
-Hastings LF410
-Denso 1502000
-Mahle OC340
-Hengst H97W07
-Wix PXL51394 and 51394

The Mahle, Bosch and Denso filters are certainly the most different from ST of the bunch, so they may be the best bet in getting a truly different, and hopefully better, ADBV design. Bosch Workshop, Bosch Premium and Denso mention silicone ADBVs in their literature, Mahle does not. The Mahle, Bosch and Denso appear to have different baseplates, therefore three different filter constructions, meaning you have at least three opportunities to solve your problem.

I didn't see the Toyota brand filter at Rock Auto and therefore didn't pursue it, but that's of course an option unless it's Fram based like the PH4967.
 
Last edited:
TC said:
I suggest buying a completely different filter construction altogether, and therefore hopefully a different ADBV construction.

Props to Rock Auto images, this filter is identical to your SuperTech ST4967: AC Delco PF1233. Avoid it.

This filter is somewhat similar to your ST: Fram PH4967. Avoid it.

These filters have different baseplates and lower end construction from your ST. Try any of these and see if your 4 seconds with no oil pressure stops:

-Bosch 72229WS and 3311
-Hastings LF410
-Denso 1502000
-Mahle OC340
-Hengst H97W07
-Wix PXL51394 and 51394

The Mahle, Bosch and Denso filters are certainly the most different from ST of the bunch, so they may be the best bet in getting a truly different, and hopefully better, ADBV design. Bosch Workshop, Bosch Premium and Denso mention silicone ADBVs in their literature, Mahle does not. The Mahle, Bosch and Denso appear to have different baseplates, therefore three different filter constructions, meaning you have at least three opportunities to solve your problem.

I didn't see the Toyota brand filter at Rock Auto and therefore didn't pursue it, but that's of course an option unless it's Fram based like the PH4967.
Click to expand...
Man - you went above and beyond here. Thanks!
 
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