Fill to vehicle spec or tire spec?

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Originally Posted By: Shannow
Do the people riding in your cars acknowledge that they are riding in an experiment, where the tyres are inflated 10psi over manufacturer deeemed maximum and sign a waiver ?

Do the taxi passengers acknowledge that they are part of an experiment, riding in a vehicle with purposely overinflated (manufacturer's recommended maximum),and sign a waiver ?

Under the recommendation of a bloke who acknowledges no expertise in tyre design ?

Do the general public know that you are carrying out an experiment on public roads, by purposely exceeding a manufacturer's recommended max ?

I think it incomprehensible that a knowledgeable person would expose others to risk as a part of their "experiment" in direct contravention of industry standards.


OMG, Are you the boy in the bubble? Have you never tweaked anything? Do you read the stereo instructions before you put it together?

I mean come on... You have no real idea of what you are really talking about. Do you?

I thought this was a Thinking Mans forum for Thinking Men.

If the Government told you it was wrong, Would you blindly follow?

If you can't discuss what we are trying to discuss... Just Bow Out.
No one will think anything less of you. Really.

Not meant to offend... Just wake you up a bit.

Jim

PS How many more of your Fellow Blokes are running on neglected/underinflated tires?
Have a look the next time you walk thru a parking area.
 
I am a thinbking man, who has modified cars, power stations, steam turbines, and high pressure/temperature equipment (1,000F, 2600psi)...As an engineer, I understand my responsibilities to my employer, and my workmates to keep the equipment within the accepted standards, and where none exists (like a cracked component that we still need to run), carry out an (expensive) design review encompassing all of the design and operating parameters.

I owe it to the people who have to walk past it in their work.

Tactical Driver has stated that he's "experimenting" with tyres purposely overinflated beyond manufacturer's ratings (not placard, but do not exceed pressures) on public roads, and advising taxi companies on doing it also...and he's said that he's not considering what happens as the tyre ages, just wants a static burst point.

I consider that a little different...and people with worn underinflated tyres is a silly straw man, as they are negligent in the event of failure, not willfully exceeding a recommendation.

People don't like my driving, they can ask me to stop and they can get out.

People don't even know that TD is experimenting, possible at their expense.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: TacticalDriver
What is left? Experimentation. Thru trial and error we can determine how things work, how they suppose to work or how they don't work. We might not be able to explain them from the scientific point of view, but we can get an idea based on common sense on how they work.


Do the people riding in your cars acknowledge that they are riding in an experiment, where the tyres are inflated 10psi over manufacturer deeemed maximum and sign a waiver ?

Do the taxi passengers acknowledge that they are part of an experiment, riding in a vehicle with purposely overinflated (manufacturer's recommended maximum),and sign a waiver ?

Under the recommendation of a bloke who acknowledges no expertise in tyre design ?

Do the general public know that you are carrying out an experiment on public roads, by purposely exceeding a manufacturer's recommended max ?

I think it incomprehensible that a knowledgeable person would expose others to risk as a part of their "experiment" in direct contravention of industry standards.


With all due consideration for your (misplaced) concern but I believe that driving with overinflated tires is the least of our problems in traffic.

According to FARS, between 35-38,000 people get killed in traffic crashes and other 5 million are getting hurt in US alone year after year after year, for the past 15 years. MVAs, in the USA, Road Traffic Accidents, FARS statistics reveals that over 95% of motor vehicle accidents are caused by driver behavior. Driver distracted by a cell phone call or a spilled cup of coffee, under the influence, unattentiveness, running red lights, falling asleep.etc, etc, etc.

The next most common cause is equipment failure such as loss of brakes, and steering/suspension failure.
The least common cause for a equipment failure is tire failures.

All reported equipment failure accounts for less than 5% of all motor vehicle accidents.

The most common tire failure contributive cause is thread separation followed by under inflation. Uneven or worn-out tires caused by improperly balanced tires, or misaligned or broken suspensions are the next most serious problems.

On the tire failure list, overinflation as leading cause (if any) is the last

Maybe someone (CapriRacer?) can point out a statistic in regards to the tire failure causes.

For me 5-10 PSI over the sidewall max, after 8 years is not an experiment anymore is a way of life.

And yes people driving in my vehicles are fully aware of the fact that they are running on 50 PSI tires. Among my trainees are law enforcement officers, military personnel and private security team members.

I am yet to see a test report, an official statistic by a tire manufacturer or a third party that can prove (without a doubt) that 5-10 PSI over the sidewall max is conductive to tire blowout or a law that says is illegal to drive 5-10 PSI over the sidewall max.
 
Shannow,

I wonder...

Why is there not an overpressure monitor in the tire/wheel combo.

Signed... The Straw Man

PS Most people would not ask to get out. And how about those you occupy the roads with? Can they ask you to stop driving? Perhaps the Police should set up Vehicle Safety Check Points, Hummm.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Shannow
I am a thinbking man, who has modified cars, power stations, steam turbines, and high pressure/temperature equipment (1,000F, 2600psi)...As an engineer, I understand my responsibilities to my employer, and my workmates to keep the equipment within the accepted standards, and where none exists (like a cracked component that we still need to run), carry out an (expensive) design review encompassing all of the design and operating parameters.

I owe it to the people who have to walk past it in their work.

Tactical Driver has stated that he's "experimenting" with tyres purposely overinflated beyond manufacturer's ratings (not placard, but do not exceed pressures) on public roads, and advising taxi companies on doing it also...and he's said that he's not considering what happens as the tyre ages, just wants a static burst point.

I consider that a little different...and people with worn underinflated tyres is a silly straw man, as they are negligent in the event of failure, not willfully exceeding a recommendation.

People don't like my driving, they can ask me to stop and they can get out.

People don't even know that TD is experimenting, possible at their expense.



For the sake of building your arguments you are bluntly (and recklessly) misconstruing my affirmations and taking words out of the context.

But again... that's ok.. .. I have nothing to prove, nothing to sale.


Regards,

TD
 
Originally Posted By: TacticalDriver


All reported equipment failure accounts for less than 5% of all motor vehicle accidents.

The most common tire failure contributive cause is thread separation followed by under inflation. Uneven or worn-out tires caused by improperly balanced tires, or misaligned or broken suspensions are the next most serious problems.

On the tire failure list, overinflation as leading cause (if any) is the last


That's because people rarely over inflate their tires beyond sidewall pressure by 5-10 PSI. If it is an encouraged behavior it would only increase in probability, and the accidents caused.

Talking about statistics, what you said about 95% of the traffic accidents from driver errors is called "independent" from the tire over inflation related. Encouraging people to exceed the sidewall pressure would not make them better drivers to reduce the 95% driver error related accidents.
 
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Encouraging people to exceed the sidewall pressure would not make them better drivers to reduce the 95% driver error related accidents.


How do you know this?
What is your source?

Jim
 
I haven't bothered to read this thread, mostly because it appears to be about the most ridiculous thread ever. This is a really simple answer to a simple question: inflate your tires to the pressure specified by the auto manufacturer, after putting the tires the recommend on the car, of course; that's the safe and reasonable thing to do. The sidewall spec is an upper limit on the tire, nothing more.

If you take your car to the track, you'll eventually have to deviate from the auto manufacturer's recommendations, both with regards to tire and tire pressure. However, I have never seen anyone inflate their tires beyond the sidewall rating. That would simply be too much air pressure for the tire to work effectively, handling would be awful... I mean awful.

Good grief.

robert
 
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Originally Posted By: TacticalDriver


All reported equipment failure accounts for less than 5% of all motor vehicle accidents.

The most common tire failure contributive cause is thread separation followed by under inflation. Uneven or worn-out tires caused by improperly balanced tires, or misaligned or broken suspensions are the next most serious problems.

On the tire failure list, overinflation as leading cause (if any) is the last


That's because people rarely over inflate their tires beyond sidewall pressure by 5-10 PSI. If it is an encouraged behavior it would only increase in probability, and the accidents caused.

Talking about statistics, what you said about 95% of the traffic accidents from driver errors is called "independent" from the tire over inflation related. Encouraging people to exceed the sidewall pressure would not make them better drivers to reduce the 95% driver error related accidents.


Yeah...and if my grandmother wouldn't have get pregnant with my mom, today she could still be a virgin.


There is no data, "0 DATA" proving the 5-10 PSI over the sidewall max is contributing to tire failure.

I said it before, I say it now, and I will say it in the future... I am using 10 PSI over the sidewall max for the past 8 years.

Precision/performance driving, advanced tactical driving, race track, family vacation, commute driving, at least once a month Vancouver, BC - Las Vegas - Vancouver, BC.

Anyone interested in road, race track or driving pad tests, I am available. Just pay the gas and I will drive from Vancouver, BC to... .. wherever you are.

I am willing to take anyone's tests, specially the ones designed to cause tire failure and see how my 10 PSI over the sidewall max will perform.
 
Originally Posted By: AstroTurf
Signed... The Straw Man


Don't you mean sockpuppet?
grin.gif


I can't believe "TD" and "you" get away with this here. No wait, I can believe it. In fact, I know you can get away with this game a little longer.
 
Originally Posted By: Volvo_ST1
Originally Posted By: AstroTurf
Signed... The Straw Man


Don't you mean sockpuppet?
grin.gif


I can't believe "TD" and "you" get away with this here. No wait, I can believe it. In fact, I know you can get away with this game a little longer.


Yeah I guess that's enough.. .. we have to get arrested. The charge:

Count 1. "Attempting to stepped out of the tire industry norms in first degree"
Count 2. "Instigating people to think in second degree"



Guilty as charged,


TD
 
Originally Posted By: TacticalDriver
Originally Posted By: Volvo_ST1
Originally Posted By: AstroTurf
Signed... The Straw Man


Don't you mean sockpuppet?
grin.gif


I can't believe "TD" and "you" get away with this here. No wait, I can believe it. In fact, I know you can get away with this game a little longer.


Yeah I guess that's enough.. .. we have to get arrested. The charge:

Count 1. "Attempting to stepped out of the tire industry norms in first degree"
Count 2. "Instigating people to think in second degree"



Guilty as charged,


TD


Sitting on the hyperinflated high horse and pulling the victim card is the predictable move. Well done!
grin.gif



PS: Count 1 is incomprehensible.
lol.gif
 
Originally Posted By: TacticalDriver
Guilty as charged


Nah, probably a couple fix it tickets and criminal negligence if someone got killed. That's about it.
 
Originally Posted By: TacticalDriver

For the sake of building your arguments you are bluntly (and recklessly) misconstruing my affirmations and taking words out of the context.

But again... that's ok.. .. I have nothing to prove, nothing to sale.


Regards,

TD


No probs, I've been getting lessons on Crownvic.net.
 
Originally Posted By: TacticalDriver
Originally Posted By: Volvo_ST1
Originally Posted By: AstroTurf
Signed... The Straw Man


Don't you mean sockpuppet?
grin.gif


I can't believe "TD" and "you" get away with this here. No wait, I can believe it. In fact, I know you can get away with this game a little longer.


Yeah I guess that's enough.. .. we have to get arrested. The charge:

Count 1. "Attempting to stepped out of the tire industry norms in first degree"
Count 2. "Instigating people to think in second degree"



Guilty as charged,


TD


TD, I get paid for critical thinking....for analysis of complex systems in current and future scenarios...and after reading all of your posts, the majority of which are on this one thread, including all of the self-contradictory statements, challenges and ad hominem criticisms, I would re-write the charges as such:

1. Presumption (in the first degree) that "Tactical Driving" experience on a track translates into the street.
2. Presumption (in the first degree) that anecdotal observation is a valid substitute for engineering and testing.
3. Presumption (in the first degree) that without engineering experience or training, you can reject the discipline's results.
4. Evasion (in the second degree) by refusing to answer questions or provide supporting evidence.
5. Self-delusion (in the second degree) that the tire industry is hiding details after they have been provided to you.
6. Self-delusion (in the second degree) that the other posters are somehow pawns of the conspiracy.
7. Egotism (in the first degree) that renders the subject unable to accept the truth despite overwhelming evidence.
8. Egotism (in the second degree) that causes the subject to cling to winning as the objective, instead of the truth.

The only reason that I continue to post on this subject (which jumped the shark on page 2) is that there might be a noob out there, who reads your posts, and is then stupid enough to believe that he should grossly over-inflate his tires.

I can't allow for that person to be subjected to the risks of adopting your hyper-inflation.

In the meantime, I am sure your hyper-inflation strategy works well on the track, but you would be doing your students a disservice if you did not provide them with vehicles that are representative (including layout, size, handling and yes, tires) of what they will have on the street should their newly-acquired skills ever be put to the test.


You fight like you train.
 
OK ... on that 2003 Lincoln LS, who did the Supplemental Tire Pressure Label? According to Tire Rack and Discount Tire, the 245/45R17 is not a FACTORY fitment for the US; I see you are in Canada which may differ. The 235/50R17 is for the 2 V8 "sport" models.

AND ... they still give the 51 psi maximum which will match the sidewall on that size, I suspect?
 
TD,

Yes, please give us some context to the photo. Here's why:

The US laws are quite specific about certain aspects of the vehicle tire placard. But the laws do not address suplemental labels.

The current law - which was implemented in 2008 (the vehicle is a 2003!) - says that there are certain situations where the original vehicle tire placard must replaced (obscured is one of the words used). Clearly that is NOT the situation here.

Further, ANYONE can apply a supplemental label so long as it doesn't obscure the original tire placard UNLESS that person is acknowledging that they are accepting responsibility as the vehicle manufacturer - and clearly that is not the case here.

So the vehicle manufacturer (Ford) applied 235/50R17's to this vehicle and specified a pressure of 30 psi. Someone else applied 245/45R17's and recommended a pressure of 34 psi - and we do not know who that person is, nor do we know why they made that recommendation, nor how extensive a testing regimen they did.

Most importantly, when folks are using the term "vehicle tire placard", they mean the label applied by Ford, and not that other one.

So, please, tell us the story behind the photo.
 
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