Fiat Chrysler's quality conundrum
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Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: Benzadmiral
If people are flocking to dealerships for Chrysler products, it could be because Chrysler offers something they can't find at the same price elsewhere: a big RWD sedan (the 300), a smaller and vigorous sedan (the 200), sportier sedans (Dodge Dart and Dodge Charger), or a 2-door retro-styled coupe (Challenger).
The only thing keeping Chrysler afloat is Ram and Jeep. They are killing off the 200, and Dart. The 300 is long in the tooth although it "looks like a Bentley". The Charger is doing well but eclipsed by the Mustang and Camaro.
Ans nearly every quality survey ranks FCA at or near the bottom. As they have been nearly forever.
I'm still puzzled why we care about Chrysler/Dodge/Ram/Jeep. Subpar vehicles nearly forever and more owners than Carter has Liver Pills. Why not make them go the way of the rest of the failed brands? Seems fitting.
Does the Charger have IRS?
Yes, the Charger has IRS and is not a direct competitor to the 2-door Camaro and Mustang since not only is it a 4-door but also because it is a much larger car. The big 2-door Challenger which is still a fair bit larger and would fall under the muscle car category, not pony car like the other two, is a better comparison.
The Charger/Challenger/300 are all based on the LX platform, which came from Mercedes.
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: Benzadmiral
If people are flocking to dealerships for Chrysler products, it could be because Chrysler offers something they can't find at the same price elsewhere: a big RWD sedan (the 300), a smaller and vigorous sedan (the 200), sportier sedans (Dodge Dart and Dodge Charger), or a 2-door retro-styled coupe (Challenger).
The only thing keeping Chrysler afloat is Ram and Jeep. They are killing off the 200, and Dart. The 300 is long in the tooth although it "looks like a Bentley". The Charger is doing well but eclipsed by the Mustang and Camaro.
Ans nearly every quality survey ranks FCA at or near the bottom. As they have been nearly forever.
I'm still puzzled why we care about Chrysler/Dodge/Ram/Jeep. Subpar vehicles nearly forever and more owners than Carter has Liver Pills. Why not make them go the way of the rest of the failed brands? Seems fitting.
Does the Charger have IRS?
Yes, the Charger has IRS and is not a direct competitor to the 2-door Camaro and Mustang since not only is it a 4-door but also because it is a much larger car. The big 2-door Challenger which is still a fair bit larger and would fall under the muscle car category, not pony car like the other two, is a better comparison.
The Charger/Challenger/300 are all based on the LX platform, which came from Mercedes.
Chrysler executives are first and foremost interested in year-end bonuses (the same could be said of other big-3 execs).
If the company shows a profit it will turn into executive bonuses rather than more engineering/ quality assurance hours per vehicle produced.
Mercedes-Benz tried to change that by spending resources on quality and engineering. US executives understood the threat that higher engineering budgets would mean to their back-pocket and the Mercedes-Chrysler merger eventually failed. Often times "cultural differences" are mentioned.
One culture (Mercedes) believes success comes from a quality product with top of the line engineering, while the other culture (Chrysler) measures success in bonus dollar amounts.
So yeah, now bottom of the pile in Consumer Reports quality index. No surprise here. Move on.
If the company shows a profit it will turn into executive bonuses rather than more engineering/ quality assurance hours per vehicle produced.
Mercedes-Benz tried to change that by spending resources on quality and engineering. US executives understood the threat that higher engineering budgets would mean to their back-pocket and the Mercedes-Chrysler merger eventually failed. Often times "cultural differences" are mentioned.
One culture (Mercedes) believes success comes from a quality product with top of the line engineering, while the other culture (Chrysler) measures success in bonus dollar amounts.
So yeah, now bottom of the pile in Consumer Reports quality index. No surprise here. Move on.
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I've had a few Chryslers over the years, the newest being a 2004. They were nice cars that were not engineered or screwed together particularly well. I have no doubt that their quality has improved greatly since then, but I have no plans to find out personally. The company offers nothing of great interest to me at the moment and I see other indicators that their quality still lags the industry. If they offered a car I really wanted, I might be willing to take a chance at the right price.
If you like your FCA products, why should you care what other people think? I just bought a VW late last year and get all kind of feedback, both positive and negative. So far the car has been great and I like it more than I thought I would. Just because I like my car doesn't mean I feel the need to defend my decision to buy it. Then again, the kind of car I drive has very little to do with my personal identity. It's just a car.
If you like your FCA products, why should you care what other people think? I just bought a VW late last year and get all kind of feedback, both positive and negative. So far the car has been great and I like it more than I thought I would. Just because I like my car doesn't mean I feel the need to defend my decision to buy it. Then again, the kind of car I drive has very little to do with my personal identity. It's just a car.
Originally Posted By: Donald
Isn't Fiat and Quality an oxymoron?
Not anymore. Many surveys here inEurope rank them in the middle of the bunch... German brands take the last places (except in Germany).
Isn't Fiat and Quality an oxymoron?
Not anymore. Many surveys here inEurope rank them in the middle of the bunch... German brands take the last places (except in Germany).
It takes a lot of expertise and effort to make a vehicle that is just "good enough", to get by with the least amount of investment and effort on the design and right on through to the final assembly. This is where the short term profit is to be found. Next month, next quarter and next year will take care of itself. Cancelling a model that has finally been sorted out as Fiat/Chrysler has done is short term planning based on pimping for next month's bonus. Putting the "Jeep" name on a slug to go along with the real Jeeps is more of the same. Fiat/Chrysler prays at the altar of the church of what's happening right now, not tomorrow. It's just one of the many ways of running a business.
I haven't found any particular brand to have amazing quality across the board. Many brands have vehicles in their fleet that are reliable, and others that are nightmares. My family has owned many Hondas and Toyotas, and while reliable, there are definitely some notable quality issues. My GF's Prius for example burns 1 quart of oil every 1000 miles and the dealer considered it "normal". This is insane considering it is a vehicle that really only uses the gasoline engine on the highway.
While Chrysler doesn't have the best reputation, I've been impressed by how well my dad's 2013 Grand Cherokee has held up. It has almost 70k hard miles on it (heavy towing every other weekend, city driving) and it has had no issues. I rotated the tires yesterday and the factory brakes still have tons of life left on them at 70k miles.
While Chrysler doesn't have the best reputation, I've been impressed by how well my dad's 2013 Grand Cherokee has held up. It has almost 70k hard miles on it (heavy towing every other weekend, city driving) and it has had no issues. I rotated the tires yesterday and the factory brakes still have tons of life left on them at 70k miles.
If you buy the product and are happy who cares.
Chrysler would be nearly out of business of fuel prices were back at $4/gallon. However luck is in on their side as the products selling get relatively abysmal mpg but are decent otherwise.
Chrysler would be nearly out of business of fuel prices were back at $4/gallon. However luck is in on their side as the products selling get relatively abysmal mpg but are decent otherwise.
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
And yet, the Challenger/Charger/300 is better than any Lexus ever made.
lol wut
That's a pretty strong blanket statement to make. Let the argument begin!
And yet, the Challenger/Charger/300 is better than any Lexus ever made.
lol wut
That's a pretty strong blanket statement to make. Let the argument begin!
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: dparm
Originally Posted By: dparm
supton said:
"The Italians are coming, the Italians are coming." And look what showed up. The Fiat 500 POP. It's been fifty years since I made the mistake of ordering a Chrysler product. Big Hamtramck POS. Looked like it was assembled by monkeys..Not going to make that mistake again no matter what company owns Chrysler. BAH HUMBUG
Originally Posted By: HosteenJorje
"It's been fifty years since I made the mistake of ordering a Chrysler product. Big Hamtramck POS. Looked like it was assembled by monkeys..Not going to make that mistake again no matter what company owns Chrysler. BAH HUMBUG
We know. You post that repeatedly. Could you please get some counseling so that you can get over it and spare us?
"It's been fifty years since I made the mistake of ordering a Chrysler product. Big Hamtramck POS. Looked like it was assembled by monkeys..Not going to make that mistake again no matter what company owns Chrysler. BAH HUMBUG
We know. You post that repeatedly. Could you please get some counseling so that you can get over it and spare us?
Chrysler Anonymous...
Interesting this comes up as
1-Just got gas....pulled up to an overheating PT Cruiser.
2-While stopping at the bank yesterday, There was a Dart being towed away for some sort of issue (it was leaking)
That said, those I know who have FCA products seem to do just fine with them. MY buddy has a 2012 Avenger, and has 90k trouble free miles. Every maker has it issues, so hard for me to punish anyone....a lemon can come from anyone.
1-Just got gas....pulled up to an overheating PT Cruiser.
2-While stopping at the bank yesterday, There was a Dart being towed away for some sort of issue (it was leaking)
That said, those I know who have FCA products seem to do just fine with them. MY buddy has a 2012 Avenger, and has 90k trouble free miles. Every maker has it issues, so hard for me to punish anyone....a lemon can come from anyone.
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
And yet, the Challenger/Charger/300 is better than any Lexus ever made. Ram is at the top of the truck heap, and Jeep (other than a few warts like the Patriot and Renegade) is still the best SUV line out there.
That's great for a laugh - almost ruined my laptop with the Lexus thing... I love my Fords but Lexus level they are not.
Challenger/Charger/300 are nice but not class leading in anything.
Ram is at the top of the scrap heap. Ford, GM, and Toyota all outperform Ram. Maybe soon to be Nissan with the Titan XD.
Jeep makes "nice" stuff but is unreliable.
And yet, the Challenger/Charger/300 is better than any Lexus ever made. Ram is at the top of the truck heap, and Jeep (other than a few warts like the Patriot and Renegade) is still the best SUV line out there.
That's great for a laugh - almost ruined my laptop with the Lexus thing... I love my Fords but Lexus level they are not.
Challenger/Charger/300 are nice but not class leading in anything.
Ram is at the top of the scrap heap. Ford, GM, and Toyota all outperform Ram. Maybe soon to be Nissan with the Titan XD.
Jeep makes "nice" stuff but is unreliable.
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I believe, in general, the cars are good.
What is really at play is the odds you get a bad one.
All car makers make bad cars, lemons. The question is how likely is the car you get going to be a lemon.
With some car makers the odds are less in your favor.
If you get a good one, it will be good. But how many others will get a bad one? That's the question.
What is really at play is the odds you get a bad one.
All car makers make bad cars, lemons. The question is how likely is the car you get going to be a lemon.
With some car makers the odds are less in your favor.
If you get a good one, it will be good. But how many others will get a bad one? That's the question.
- In 2014 Chrysler recalled 300,000 Ram trucks for fire hazard http://www.reuters.com/article/us-chrysler-recall-fire-idUSKBN0II1CL20141029
- In 2015 Fiat-Chrysler recalled 141,000 Ram trucks for axle breakage and potential fire risks: http://blog.caranddriver.com/fiat-chrysl...ractures-fires/
Looks like there's been a marked improvement in quality between 2014 and 2015. Still we're not talking about rattling dashboards but roasting like a marshmallow.
- In 2015 Fiat-Chrysler recalled 141,000 Ram trucks for axle breakage and potential fire risks: http://blog.caranddriver.com/fiat-chrysl...ractures-fires/
Looks like there's been a marked improvement in quality between 2014 and 2015. Still we're not talking about rattling dashboards but roasting like a marshmallow.
Originally Posted By: AZjeff
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
And yet, the Challenger/Charger/300 is better than any Lexus ever made. Ram is at the top of the truck heap, and Jeep (other than a few warts like the Patriot and Renegade) is still the best SUV line out there.
People have been insulting Chrysler for 50 years. Who cares as long as my products give me good service, as they ALL have done?
Your possibly biased opinion is duly noted. How do you feel about Chrysler being a foreign brand...like Lexus?
My opinion is just as valid as all the usual critics. Moreso since most of them have admittedly never owned one, all because somebody's cousin's uncle by marriage once had a transaxle go out on his '95 minivan therefore all Chrysler products are terrible. And because Consumer Reports (sheesh!)
I really don't have anything against Toyota/Lexus. They make fine cars, just like everyone else. And that's just the point... they're just like everyone else. They're no "better engineered" than anyone else, and CERTAINLY don't have better QA/QC in modern times. Its the Myth of the All Hallowed Toyota Quality(tm) held over from the 1980s when it was true that I have a problem with. These days the difference between Kia and Mercedes is a whole heck of a lot narrower than the difference between Chevrolet and Toyota was in 1990. For people to sit around and pretend that for some reason FCA is at the bottom of the barrel, or for that matter significantly different, is just asinine. Fortunately as the initial article proves, sales agree with the asininity of it.
Plus, nobody else (except AMG and GM with their Z/06 and CTS-V and then not at anywhere near the price point) had the gonads to build something like a Hellcat engine, release it on the streets, and put a warranty on it just like a Dart or Wrangler- and even then people have already been willing to forgive and forget the two long-term magazine test Corvettes that blew engines last year... but if a Hellcat Challenger has a spot of orange-peel in the paint you hear about it.
Yeah, I know I'm starting to sound like a fan-boy... and maybe I am to a degree, but if so its only because I've had MINIMAL and MINOR trouble with Chrysler products in close to a million miles on them in my life. But a fan-boy would be destroyed to have to buy something else- I wouldn't. I've owned Fords and Chevies and Mazdas, and I'll probably own others again in the future and its no skin off my nose. If FCA ceased to exist tomorrow, I'd buy something else next time I need a car and move on. Really, its just the idiotic double standard that bothers me. I'm very glad to see Ford build the GT350, to succeed with Ecoboost engines as an alternative to traditional v8s, for GM to have success with its Alpha-platform ATS and Camaro, for Toyota to succeed in getting such a massive number of hybrids out in the field. But it seems like there's a substantial part of the automotive press that just can't stand for Chrysler (under any ownership) to make good products that people like- which is what they're doing right now. I just don't get it.
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
And yet, the Challenger/Charger/300 is better than any Lexus ever made. Ram is at the top of the truck heap, and Jeep (other than a few warts like the Patriot and Renegade) is still the best SUV line out there.
People have been insulting Chrysler for 50 years. Who cares as long as my products give me good service, as they ALL have done?
Your possibly biased opinion is duly noted. How do you feel about Chrysler being a foreign brand...like Lexus?
My opinion is just as valid as all the usual critics. Moreso since most of them have admittedly never owned one, all because somebody's cousin's uncle by marriage once had a transaxle go out on his '95 minivan therefore all Chrysler products are terrible. And because Consumer Reports (sheesh!)
I really don't have anything against Toyota/Lexus. They make fine cars, just like everyone else. And that's just the point... they're just like everyone else. They're no "better engineered" than anyone else, and CERTAINLY don't have better QA/QC in modern times. Its the Myth of the All Hallowed Toyota Quality(tm) held over from the 1980s when it was true that I have a problem with. These days the difference between Kia and Mercedes is a whole heck of a lot narrower than the difference between Chevrolet and Toyota was in 1990. For people to sit around and pretend that for some reason FCA is at the bottom of the barrel, or for that matter significantly different, is just asinine. Fortunately as the initial article proves, sales agree with the asininity of it.
Plus, nobody else (except AMG and GM with their Z/06 and CTS-V and then not at anywhere near the price point) had the gonads to build something like a Hellcat engine, release it on the streets, and put a warranty on it just like a Dart or Wrangler- and even then people have already been willing to forgive and forget the two long-term magazine test Corvettes that blew engines last year... but if a Hellcat Challenger has a spot of orange-peel in the paint you hear about it.
Yeah, I know I'm starting to sound like a fan-boy... and maybe I am to a degree, but if so its only because I've had MINIMAL and MINOR trouble with Chrysler products in close to a million miles on them in my life. But a fan-boy would be destroyed to have to buy something else- I wouldn't. I've owned Fords and Chevies and Mazdas, and I'll probably own others again in the future and its no skin off my nose. If FCA ceased to exist tomorrow, I'd buy something else next time I need a car and move on. Really, its just the idiotic double standard that bothers me. I'm very glad to see Ford build the GT350, to succeed with Ecoboost engines as an alternative to traditional v8s, for GM to have success with its Alpha-platform ATS and Camaro, for Toyota to succeed in getting such a massive number of hybrids out in the field. But it seems like there's a substantial part of the automotive press that just can't stand for Chrysler (under any ownership) to make good products that people like- which is what they're doing right now. I just don't get it.
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