Ferrari 348

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Cauf61

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Hello

I am looking for some advise here on a good oil for my Ferrari 348 engine.
It has flat tappets and the advised oil is a 5W40.




I did some investigation and came out on Motul V300 krono 5W40 Ester based. Looks very good (high ZDDP) but as i am reading it has a short lifespan (8-9 mths)
because low on stabilisers and change interval.(5000km). The interval is not an issue as i drive it only +- 2000km /year but changing it about every half year is a bit expensive and stupid.
Also i read that ester based oils have a tendency to make seals soft/swell.
As you know a Ferrari is not always dry ( understatement lol) so if this is correct this oil is a no go of course.

Now i drive with helix ultra 5W40 but it foames to much for my lickings. And is to low on ZDDP but i put an additive of 700ppm in it. What i am not in favour of either.

Would M1 0W50 be an better option ? This is also racing oil , so lifespan also 8-9 mths ??
Viscosity ok here ?

Please some advise.

Grts
Patrick



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welcome2.gif


There is no such thing as ester-based oil. They only use a small amount of ester to increase the oxidation and cleaning properties. Esters are also probably not good for flat tappets, as they compete with ZDDP and moly films and potentially increase wear.

Any regular synthetic 5W-40 is fine. You can also use a synthetic HDEO like Rotella 5W-40 if you want more ZDDP. Even a good 0W-40 like Mobil 1 could also do the job, perhaps its higher-viscosity-index GTL base oil is not much thinner than a typically inferior Group III base oil of a 5W-40. So, yeah, perhaps, use Mobil 1 0W-40 (almost 50% more ZDDP than a mid-SAPS oil). It will work.
 
Well first of all, WELCOME!
Second of all, NICE CAR!
Third of all, others will chime in with the answer of what type/grade/brand of oil would suit your car(NICE CAR!) best. As it also depends on how easy/hard that you drive the car(NICE CAR!).
 
Originally Posted by Gokhan
welcome2.gif


There is no such thing as ester-based oil. They only use a small amount of ester to increase the oxidation and cleaning properties. Esters are also probably not good for flat tappets, as they compete with ZDDP and moly films and potentially increase wear.

Any regular synthetic 5W-40 is fine. You can also use a synthetic HDEO like Rotella 5W-40 if you want more ZDDP. Even a good 0W-40 like Mobil 1 could also do the job, perhaps its higher-viscosity-index GTL base oil is not much thinner than a typically inferior Group III base oil of a 5W-40. So, yeah, perhaps use Mobil 1 0W-40. It will work.


I'm curious, are you getting very technical and saying that in general all ester and pao base oils are named incorrectly due to low % of pao or ester? I recall some oils have %20 pao so they can't be called pao base oil?
Like low fat milk should be called water
grin2.gif
 
I would stick with the Shell Helix Ultra 5w40. It's currently the only oil approved by Ferrarri. It's a GTL Group 3 base so a cut above other Group 3 base stocks. You don't need 1000ppm+ of ZDDP for a flat tappet cam, only for breaking in.
 
Originally Posted by OilUzer
Originally Posted by Gokhan
welcome2.gif


There is no such thing as ester-based oil. They only use a small amount of ester to increase the oxidation and cleaning properties. Esters are also probably not good for flat tappets, as they compete with ZDDP and moly films and potentially increase wear.

Any regular synthetic 5W-40 is fine. You can also use a synthetic HDEO like Rotella 5W-40 if you want more ZDDP. Even a good 0W-40 like Mobil 1 could also do the job, perhaps its higher-viscosity-index GTL base oil is not much thinner than a typically inferior Group III base oil of a 5W-40. So, yeah, perhaps use Mobil 1 0W-40. It will work.
I'm curious, are you getting very technical and saying that in general all ester and pao base oils are named incorrectly due to low % of pao or ester? I recall some oils have %20 pao so they can't be called pao base oil?
Like low fat milk should be called water
grin2.gif


Oh, no, when I say that there is no such thing as ester-base oil, I mean that when an oil talks about esters, it's usually only about a couple of percent or so. Esters are only used in small amounts and this is to benefit from their advantages while avoiding the problems they cause. For example, the "ester-based" oil the OP mentioned is actually a PAO-and-Group-III-based oil with a small amount of ester (probably a couple of percent) in it.
 
Originally Posted by Bailes1992
I would stick with the Shell Helix Ultra 5w40. It's currently the only oil approved by Ferrarri. It's a GTL Group 3 base so a cut above other Group 3 base stocks. You don't need 1000ppm+ of ZDDP for a flat tappet cam, only for breaking in.

This oil is a good one and would work. Modern oils don't require very high levels of ZDDP, as they have other AW/EP/FM additives that reduce wear.
 
As a novice is there a topic where i can find an explanation for all the abbreviations ?
 
Originally Posted by Bailes1992
I would stick with the Shell Helix Ultra 5w40. It's currently the only oil approved by Ferrarri. It's a GTL Group 3 base so a cut above other Group 3 base stocks. You don't need 1000ppm+ of ZDDP for a flat tappet cam, only for breaking in.


I know it that the helix has a Ferrari approval but i found out it is very low on ZDDP and also very foamy as the V8 of a 348 has a dry sump system.

I am also not so shure about not needing a ZDDP content for this "old" flat tappet engine. At least around 1000-1200 ppm like the oils from the 90's.

PS: I have no cat's so the zinc content is no issue.
 
Originally Posted by Char Baby
Well first of all, WELCOME!
Second of all, NICE CAR!
Third of all, others will chime in with the answer of what type/grade/brand of oil would suit your car(NICE CAR!) best. As it also depends on how easy/hard that you drive the car(NICE CAR!).


Thx. I drive not that fast, just normal. I more enjoy the car ( and sound !!)
And working on the engine. :-)




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Last edited:
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by OilUzer
Originally Posted by Gokhan
welcome2.gif


There is no such thing as ester-based oil. They only use a small amount of ester to increase the oxidation and cleaning properties. Esters are also probably not good for flat tappets, as they compete with ZDDP and moly films and potentially increase wear.

Any regular synthetic 5W-40 is fine. You can also use a synthetic HDEO like Rotella 5W-40 if you want more ZDDP. Even a good 0W-40 like Mobil 1 could also do the job, perhaps its higher-viscosity-index GTL base oil is not much thinner than a typically inferior Group III base oil of a 5W-40. So, yeah, perhaps use Mobil 1 0W-40. It will work.
I'm curious, are you getting very technical and saying that in general all ester and pao base oils are named incorrectly due to low % of pao or ester? I recall some oils have %20 pao so they can't be called pao base oil?
Like low fat milk should be called water
grin2.gif


Oh, no, when I say that there is no such thing as ester-base oil, I mean that when an oil talks about esters, it's usually only about a couple of percent or so. Esters are only used in small amounts and this is to benefit from their advantages while avoiding the problems they cause. For example, the "ester-based" oil the OP mentioned is actually a PAO-and-Group-III-based oil with a small amount of ester (probably a couple of percent) in it.



Could you please explain this sentence ?? "the "ester-based" oil the OP mentioned is actually a PAO-and-Group-III-based oil "

Are you referring to the Motul or the M1 oil ?
 
Originally Posted by Gokhan
welcome2.gif


There is no such thing as ester-based oil. They only use a small amount of ester to increase the oxidation and cleaning properties. Esters are also probably not good for flat tappets, as they compete with ZDDP and moly films and potentially increase wear.

Any regular synthetic 5W-40 is fine. You can also use a synthetic HDEO like Rotella 5W-40 if you want more ZDDP. Even a good 0W-40 like Mobil 1 could also do the job, perhaps its higher-viscosity-index GTL base oil is not much thinner than a typically inferior Group III base oil of a 5W-40. So, yeah, perhaps, use Mobil 1 0W-40 (almost 50% more ZDDP than a mid-SAPS oil). It will work.


Isn't Shell Rotella a diesel oil ?
 
Originally Posted by Cauf61
Originally Posted by Gokhan
welcome2.gif


There is no such thing as ester-based oil. They only use a small amount of ester to increase the oxidation and cleaning properties. Esters are also probably not good for flat tappets, as they compete with ZDDP and moly films and potentially increase wear.

Any regular synthetic 5W-40 is fine. You can also use a synthetic HDEO like Rotella 5W-40 if you want more ZDDP. Even a good 0W-40 like Mobil 1 could also do the job, perhaps its higher-viscosity-index GTL base oil is not much thinner than a typically inferior Group III base oil of a 5W-40. So, yeah, perhaps, use Mobil 1 0W-40 (almost 50% more ZDDP than a mid-SAPS oil). It will work.


Isn't Shell Rotella a diesel oil ?

yes but also for motorcycles, tractors, lawn mowers, and cars
 
I have a hard time imagining that I'd use anything other than an oil with actual Ferrari approval, considering in Europe you have access to the excellent Helix product.

But maybe that's just me.
 
Originally Posted by kschachn
I have a hard time imagining that I'd use anything other than an oil with actual Ferrari approval, considering in Europe you have access to the excellent Helix product.

But maybe that's just me.


Correct at first glance.

But my Ferrari 348 is from 1992 and the oil formulation then was completely different then now.
Just think of the use of cat's and low emissions now.
I my view ( maybe wrong, that's why i ask over here ;-) ) these "old" flat tappet engines need a higher ZDDP content.
I know this is also open for discussion.

What worries me the most is the fact the Helix ultra is foaming very much. It is almost like a cappuchino in the dry sump tank. Maybe no problem but i don't know.
 
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