F1 - 2018 Spanish Grand Prix

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Getting rid of Martin Brundle would probably be a PR disaster.


I don't see how, the guy is like watching paint dry. I'm not trying to be insulting, as I'm sure he is a nice guy. He just doesn't have what it takes to be an announcer. He seems to wander about aimlessly, mumbling and "interviewing" celebrity types that have nothing to do with the sport. I guess I'm spoiled by guys like Peter Windsor, Steve Matchett, and David Hobbs.

A lot of this has been instigated by F-1 itself. Getting away from the quiet post race interview room, in favor of these idiotic podium interviews, has been a total disaster. Many times conducted by some loud mouthed, "celebrity" interviewer who looks half lit, and chosen out of a party 5 minutes before. All asking stupid questions. You can tell how disgusted many of the drivers are, by having to field a lot of these silly questions... "Tell us how the race looked to you, Kimi?"... Why, was he at a different one? Compared to the highly technical questions Peter Windsor used to ask. Many of which made the drivers think carefully before answering them.

Ever since Speed Channel lost F-1 coverage back in 2012, it has been going downhill. Between the practice, qualifying, and race channel roulette, and bush league announcing, they've turned what used to be something educational about racing, and made into a dog and pony show not even worth watching.

 

[gofast182]

I don't see what makes Brundle a sacred cow. His race commentary is alright (nothing special) and his grid walks are utter [censored]. He wanders around like an old lost dog. Like him or not, Will Buxton did an outstanding grid walk for NBC.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: gofast182
I don't see what makes Brundle a sacred cow. His race commentary is alright (nothing special) and his grid walks are utter [censored]. He wanders around like an old lost dog. Like him or not, Will Buxton did an outstanding grid walk for NBC.


Compared to Brundle I have to agree. Buxton's only problem was he seemed O.D.'d on caffine every time they gave him a microphone. But I would rather put up with that, than Brundle's walk of the living dead.

 

[bdcardinal]

I thought the NASCAR/IndyCar style post race interviews were awkward. Racers in the US seem to expect it where Lewis seemed a like he wasn't expecting to have a mic shoved in his face so soon.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: billt460
I don't see how, the guy is like watching paint dry. I'm not trying to be insulting, as I'm sure he is a nice guy. He just doesn't have what it takes to be an announcer. He seems to wander about aimlessly, mumbling and "interviewing" celebrity types that have nothing to do with the sport. I guess I'm spoiled by guys like Peter Windsor, Steve Matchett, and David Hobbs.

From a PR perspective, Brundle is popular where Sky is the native carrier. Sky may not concern themselves too much with North American opinion on the matter. He is popular with subscribers at home. Additionally, there are benefits to his style, and he gets good access. He doesn't get rude, nor talk over other journalists, nor interfere with other interviews because he's part of the "official" team. Interviewing celebrity types could have very well been introduced to him by Bernie. It's not any worse than the cliche questions and answers to most people who "belong" on the grid.

Peter Windsor is still around. He works for the Motorsport group now, and does a lot of videos, still. They're just online. As for Speed Channel, they didn't lose F1, they lost the entire plot.

As for Matchett and Hobbs, I found they weren't technical enough. Windsor is another matter. Pat Symonds was a good choice to help out on the technical side of Sky, but he seems to still be stuck in the secretive mode, when he's actually on TV.

A lot of this has been instigated by F-1 itself. Getting away from the quiet post race interview room, in favor of these idiotic podium interviews, has been a total disaster. Many times conducted by some loud mouthed, "celebrity" interviewer who looks half lit, and chosen out of a party 5 minutes before. All asking stupid questions. You can tell how disgusted many of the drivers are, by having to field a lot of these silly questions... "Tell us how the race looked to you, Kimi?"... Why, was he at a different one? Compared to the highly technical questions Peter Windsor used to ask. Many of which made the drivers think carefully before answering them.

Ever since Speed Channel lost F-1 coverage back in 2012, it has been going downhill. Between the practice, qualifying, and race channel roulette, and bush league announcing, they've turned what used to be something educational about racing, and made into a dog and pony show not even worth watching. [/quote]

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: Garak
....... As for Matchett and Hobbs, I found they weren't technical enough.........


They detuned their broadcasting for what the bulk of their audience was capable of digesting. Matchett built F-1 cars for Schumacher while he was at Benetton. He was a regular contributor and columnist to F1 Racing Magazine from 1996 to 2008. And he was the Technical Editor of the magazine from 1998 to 2008.

Hobbs has a vast, 30-year history of international driving experience at all levels of motor sports. Including sports cars, touring cars, Indy cars, IMSA, Can-Am, and Formula One. He has participated in the Indianapolis 500 and the 24 Hours of Daytona. He made twenty starts in the 24 Hours of Le Mans race.

These 2 guys have accomplished more in motor racing by mistake, than Sky's entire broadcast crew has ever done on purpose.

 

[gofast182]

Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Garak
....... As for Matchett and Hobbs, I found they weren't technical enough.........


They detuned their broadcasting for what the bulk of their audience was capable of digesting. Matchett built F-1 cars for Schumacher while he was at Benetton. He was a regular contributor and columnist to F1 Racing Magazine from 1996 to 2008. And he was the Technical Editor of the magazine from 1998 to 2008.

Hobbs has a vast, 30-year history of international driving experience at all levels of motor sports. Including sports cars, touring cars, Indy cars, IMSA, Can-Am, and Formula One. He has participated in the Indianapolis 500 and the 24 Hours of Daytona. He made twenty starts in the 24 Hours of Le Mans race.

These 2 guys have accomplished more in motor racing by mistake, than Sky's entire broadcast crew has ever done on purpose.

Absolutely. I miss the entire NBCSN F1 broadcast team.

I do check out Will Buxton's F1 Paddock Pass videos after each race.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: billt460
They detuned their broadcasting for what the bulk of their audience was capable of digesting. Matchett built F-1 cars for Schumacher while he was at Benetton. He was a regular contributor and columnist to F1 Racing Magazine from 1996 to 2008. And he was the Technical Editor of the magazine from 1998 to 2008.

I wasn't knocking their credentials in the least. Your first sentence is exactly what I was talking about. They detuned their broadcasting for the target audience. That doesn't diminish their own credentials in the least. I understand that they want to ensure their target audience knows what DRS stands for, but I don't need it explained to me four times in a race, that's all. In fairness, as I've mentioned before, Bernie's complaint against Sky was that they are too technical, which is obviously a problem for some audiences, too.

Originally Posted By: billt460
These 2 guys have accomplished more in motor racing by mistake, than Sky's entire broadcast crew has ever done on purpose.

That might be going a little far. With respect to David Croft, okay, he's simply a broadcaster, and one that's terribly flummoxed if a Brit driver or a "Brit car" isn't leading the race, and Paul di Resta, despite having been a driver seems more interested in politicking than broadcasting. However, Johnny Herbert raced in F1 for what, ten or eleven years? He raced the 24H of Le Mans many times and was a one time overall winner. Damon Hill raced for a few years and was WDC. Martin Brundle was in F1 for over a decade and also was a 24H of Le Mans outright winner. Pat Symonds has a CV with which you're well aware, although I'm not sure he's doing anything with the broadcast team any longer. I believe that Ross Brawn and FIA have him assisting with going through planning with proposed and/or possible technical and rule changes. Nico Rosberg is also technically on the broadcast roster.

 

[weasley]

Don't forget Anthony Davidson, also a former F1 driver and has raced 9 Le Mans with two podiums and one WEC championship win.

There's no question the Sky team have experience and credibility, much of it current or recent, in the F1 and motorsport arena; belittling this is folly. You might not like their delivery style but they are targeting a different audience - in the UK we tend to prefer considered commentary rather than loud voices. I find it difficult to watch US racing (or sports in general) due to the somewhat over-energetic delivery of the commentators, but I recognise they are not targeting me - vive la difference!

 

[gofast182]

Originally Posted By: weasley
Don't forget Anthony Davidson, also a former F1 driver and has raced 9 Le Mans with two podiums and one WEC championship win.

There's no question the Sky team have experience and credibility, much of it current or recent, in the F1 and motorsport arena; belittling this is folly. You might not like their delivery style but they are targeting a different audience - in the UK we tend to prefer considered commentary rather than loud voices. I find it difficult to watch US racing (or sports in general) due to the somewhat over-energetic delivery of the commentators, but I recognise they are not targeting me - vive la difference!

Lest you think the UK is superior in what it likes for commentary, the NBCSN team had exactly zero Americans and they weren't any worse in detecting and conveying nuance. What you call loud voices (Diffey and Buxton) I call a bit more energy and they were tempered by Hobbs' dry humor and Matchett's measured remarks. Sky can do better than Brundle.

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: weasley
Don't forget Anthony Davidson, also a former F1 driver and has raced 9 Le Mans with two podiums and one WEC championship win.

There's no question the Sky team have experience and credibility, much of it current or recent, in the F1 and motorsport arena; belittling this is folly. You might not like their delivery style but they are targeting a different audience - in the UK we tend to prefer considered commentary rather than loud voices. I find it difficult to watch US racing (or sports in general) due to the somewhat over-energetic delivery of the commentators, but I recognise they are not targeting me - vive la difference!

I think the SKY broadcast is pretty good, being at the race track for the whole weekend is the only way to go. Trying to comment just from the live feed isn't that great and they often get confused of what's going on.
Also I like Horner and Brundle sparring with each other, and that Brundle will ask the uncomfortable questions in respectful way.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: gofast182
Sky can do better than Brundle.


And Paul di Resta. Ex Formula 1 drivers are a dime a dozen these days.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: weasley
Don't forget Anthony Davidson, also a former F1 driver and has raced 9 Le Mans with two podiums and one WEC championship win.

Yes, and I shouldn't have, since we hear from him most weekends.

Originally Posted By: weasley
There's no question the Sky team have experience and credibility, much of it current or recent, in the F1 and motorsport arena; belittling this is folly. You might not like their delivery style but they are targeting a different audience - in the UK we tend to prefer considered commentary rather than loud voices. I find it difficult to watch US racing (or sports in general) due to the somewhat over-energetic delivery of the commentators, but I recognise they are not targeting me - vive la difference!

This. It's not about someone's ability or knowledge. The only one that gets a bit confused at times seems to be Crofty, but his forte appears to be statistics and research, and he plays off his strengths, like anyone else. Having a preference for the Sky team or the BBC team before does not diminish the ability of the team that was put together for U.S. broadcast television. There were simply different approaches for different audiences. I don't need to have the two race tire compound rule explained to me twice a race all season. Casual viewers do. I'm certainly not saying the Sky team is perfect, not by any stretch of the imagination. I wouldn't mind hearing Ben Edwards in place of Crofty. I also get pretty exasperated (and say so here all the time) with the cheerleading for Hamilton and Red Bull.

I think some forget Brundle's journalistic accomplishments. He's not a trained, career journalist, but, as was pointed out, is able to ask the uncomfortable questions in fairly disarming ways, at least most times. He's also quite capable of pointing out when a team principal is selling slices of baloney. He has good access and is respect on the grid. We also shouldn't forget he was quite prominent in reporting matters (while keeping a level head) when the Mosley matter hit the fan.

As for his grid walks, something has changed over the past couple years or so. I can't exactly pinpoint when or why, but something has altered the pacing a bit and made things a little disjointed. I may have to check some previous races if I can find something on YouTube or something like that to do some comparisons. I don't know if it's the time allocated, or a change in the pre-race schedule in F1, or if he has different people (or fewer people) helping him, or a different mix or number of people on the grid, or what.

 

[weasley]

Originally Posted By: gofast182
Lest you think the UK is superior in what it likes for commentary, the NBCSN team had exactly zero Americans and they weren't any worse in detecting and conveying nuance. What you call loud voices (Diffey and Buxton) I call a bit more energy and they were tempered by Hobbs' dry humor and Matchett's measured remarks. Sky can do better than Brundle.


Not at all - I merely pointed out a difference in style and audience perception. I don't doubt the knowledge or ability of any other commentary teams, but my tastes have become accustomed to a certain delivery. To me, Murray Walker, legend though he is, was a bit much - he was also 'energetic' (although often emotional too, which was charming) but I got irked by his constant mistakes in commentary.

 

[Garak]

For those in North America unfamiliar with Murray Walker and his style, here is a commercial that has a great deal of self-parody, about his style and his mistakes in commentary (i.e. the mistake in identifying the order):

 

[Brad_C]

Some classic Walker and Hunt

Murray and James

I loved Murray, but he was at his best when paired with Hunt.

 

[billt460]

The fact is Americans and Brits, (and to a lesser degree Australians), have far different tastes. In just about everything. Food, comedy, politics, lifestyles. (Along with that warm "beer" you drink that tastes like motor oil. And is just about as thick). This will never change. The Brits like things much drier and vanilla flavored. That's not meant as an insult, but a fact. Show me an American who has ever sat through a full episode of Benny Hill and actually laughed? I don't know one who could even sit through an episode.... Myself included.

Americans like things more lively. And less monotone and dull. We embrace the excitement of NASCAR. (Or at least used to before it got as boring as British announcing). Brits find that to be, "immature". Or else tag it in some other similar way. Look at this whole, "Royal Wedding". Most Americans look at this whole thing as an expensive, overplayed, boring, farce, That their government can't afford. The Brits can't stop slobbering over it, and this Meghan Markle. Who is going to the plate for her second at bat.

And just wait, she'll strike out again. It's only a matter of time before this marriage ends up just like Diana's and Fergie's did. Why? Because that old bitty of a "queen", is a complete nut case of a control freak, that every woman in that ridiculous "castle" hates, and can't wait until she croaks. And I don't blame them.

Americans look at all of this and laugh. While the Brits hate us because we elected a maverick President like Trump. Why? Because we as Americans get real sick and tired of the same old, same old, real fast. The Brits can't get enough of it. They HATE change, because they have this silly idea that it, "breaks with tradition". Again, that's not meant as an insult. It's just the way it is, and the way it will always be. It's why we all think Sky's "coverage" of Formula 1, (and to some degree, Formula 1 itself), is as exciting as watching paint dry in humidity. We are just too different.

 

[Garak]

I'd try to avoid getting this thread locked with too much that isn't relevant, particularly the political side. In any event, yes, the audiences are different. I'm blessed in Canada that we have generally been exposed to a fair bit of both American and British TV and culture over the years.

Back in the day, I was lucky to be able to see a few minutes of highlights with ABC's Wide World of Sport's being broadcast in Canada, with a bit of commentary by Sir Jackie. Bernie has done us well in Canada for coverage, and for that, I'm eternally grateful, be it Edwards and D.C. or Crofty and Brundle or the now departed team that was handling things for the American network.

I criticise the Americans for disliking the Sky coverage, and I criticise the Brits for grumbling about having to pay for F1 coverage.

We went through it for hockey, they'll survive paying for F1.

 

[Carmudgeon]

Originally Posted By: Brad_C
much for them, but I'd be surprised if they pushed him out the door before the end of the season.


Well, from today's news, it appears that RB/TR does want to spring a surprise.

If I were McLaren, I'd say, "sure, you can have Norris...we'll gladly trade him for Newey!"

 

[Garak]

He he, that might be a worthwhile trade, but Newey seems desperate to get out of F1, but they keep getting him back with pity and/or money.

It would seem that Dr. Marko has his hands full, and concern about the current depth of the RBR junior program may be justified. In any case, I bet they wish they still had Sainz at their immediate disposal.