Extremely short runs in COLD weather.

[bigblumer]

My wife and I just moved across town, and we are now very close to her work (1.2 miles). We also just got a new-to-us 08 Saturn Outlook with the 3.6 V6. A few days ago, I noticed that the temperature needle on the dash registered barely 165 degrees as we passed her work on our way to the grocery store. It was about 60 degrees out at the time.

Being that we live in Minnestoa, there will be many days ahead of us where it will be much cooler than that as she makes her way to and from work. -10 is not uncommon during the winter.

Since the startup temp will be so cold, and the engine will not have a chance to get warm, I was wondering what kind of trouble I should expect. I was thinking of switching to PP before winter rolls in.

I will try to start the car and let it warm up before she leaves in the morning (and earn some Good Husband points), but I can't gurantee it will happen every morning, and I know it won't happen on her way home from work. I'm open to any adivice or oil/filter reccomendations.

Thanks,
Paul

_______________________________________________________________
07 Kia Optima 2.4 l4
Valvoline WB 5w-20 Napa Gold 1334/PureOne PL14459 (which ever is on sale)

08 Saturn Outlook 3.6 V6
Dealer oil change and filter (probably PP 5w30 and Napa Gold/PureOne)

 

[hominid7]

If you use the Saturn on the weekends for trips to St Paul or wherever you go, it would likely burn off the extra moisture and fuel that she will be building up during the week. I like the idea of warming it up for a few minutes in the morning as well.

If it were me, i'd use a somewhat inexpensive dino (like QS dino or Valvoline since that's what your using in the Kia) and change it more regularly.

Can't go wrong with those NAPA/WIX filters.

 

[Lead Shoes]

I would either do the cheap dino and change it frequently, every 3k miles if all it sees are 1-5mile trips, or try out m1 0w30 AFE this winter, that's what I'm doing.

 

[OrdnanceMarine]

I wouldn't recommend idling the engine to warm it up because it takes an awful long time to get up to temp and you'll be pouring unburned fuel and extra water into the oil the entire time. You could use an engine block heater set on a timer to do the same thing and you'll get an easier start on the engine (less engine wear plus a little easier on your battery and starter).

I didn't see whether you'll be parked inside or outside. The colder it is relative to the temp you want the engine to be when you start it will determine the amount of time you'll need to preheat and (if you have a choice) the size of the block heater).

 

[demarpaint]

Either you're going to have to change the oil more often or take a long trip with the car a few times a month. You run the risk of sludge and possible other problems if you don't. Fuel diluting the oil and short exhaust system life come to mind, as well as other potential problems.

 

[OrdnanceMarine]

Originally Posted By: hominid7
If you use the Saturn on the weekends for trips to St Paul or wherever you go, it would likely burn off the extra moisture and fuel that she will be building up during the week. I like the idea of warming it up for a few minutes in the morning as well.

If it were me, i'd use a somewhat inexpensive dino (like QS dino or Valvoline since that's what your using in the Kia) and change it more regularly.

Can't go wrong with those NAPA/WIX filters.


Since it sounds like you're starting in cold conditions and you intend to run the engine at idle to warm it up I'd opt for a synthetic not dino, since synthetics tend to vastly outperform dino in their physical properties at cold temps. Remember that EVERY oil is too thick at startup (assuming you're not already at operating temp) but synthetic oils will be closer to the thickness that your engine is designed to operate at. This difference decreases as you get closer to the operating temp of the engine.

The longer trip once weekly would definitely help.

I'd recommend a period of used oil analyses to see what really happens. UOA is really the only to know.

 

[JeremyInMT]

How about a block heater and/or oil pan warmer?

 

[CATERHAM]

First welcome to BITOG!

Since you're seeing normal operating temp's even in the summer, the ideal oil choice would be a 0W-20, and I'd recommend the Toyota 0W-20 as there's nothing lighter on start-up.
If synthetic oil is too expensive then a 5W-20 dino would be the second choice.
If you can try to take it for a long run whenever you can.

 

[HTSS_TR]

I agree with CATERHAM, xW20 in winter for cold weather and short trips.

 

[SubLGT]

How about...............oil pan warmer?

From a 2011 SAE paper:

A New Method to Warm Up Lubricating Oil to Improve the Fuel Efficiency During Cold Start:

"Cold start driving cycles exhibit an increase in friction losses due to the low temperatures of metal and media compared to normal operating engine conditions. These friction losses are responsible for up to 10% penalty in fuel economy over the official drive cycles like the New European Drive Cycle (NEDC), where the temperature of the oil even at the end of the 1180 s of the drive cycle is below the fully warmed up values of between 100°C and 120°C. At engine oil temperatures below 100°C the water from the blow by condensates and dilutes the engine oil in the oil pan which negatively affects engine wear. Therefore engine oil temperatures above 100°C are desirable to minimize engine wear through blow by condensate. The paper presents a new technique to warm up the engine oil that significantly reduces the friction losses and therefore also reduces the fuel economy penalty during a 22°C cold start NEDC. Chassis dynamometer experiments demonstrated fuel economy improvements of over 7% as well as significant emission reductions by rapidly increasing the oil temperature. Oil temperatures were increased by up to 60°C during certain parts of the NEDC."

http://papers.sae.org/2011-01-0318

 

[Chris11]

I have the same short trips 5 days a week to work on cold Winter mornings. Like others have already mentioned take the car out once every week or two on a longer run to warm the oil and burn any condensation that may form in it. That's what i've always done and it has always worked well for me. If you want you could also run dino oil and change it after 3 months regardless of the mileage. Check your PCV valve too and change it if needed.

 

[OrdnanceMarine]

Originally Posted By: SubLGT

How about...............oil pan warmer?

From a 2011 SAE paper:

A New Method to Warm Up Lubricating Oil to Improve the Fuel Efficiency During Cold Start:

"Cold start driving cycles exhibit an increase in friction losses due to the low temperatures of metal and media compared to normal operating engine conditions. These friction losses are responsible for up to 10% penalty in fuel economy over the official drive cycles like the New European Drive Cycle (NEDC), where the temperature of the oil even at the end of the 1180 s of the drive cycle is below the fully warmed up values of between 100°C and 120°C. At engine oil temperatures below 100°C the water from the blow by condensates and dilutes the engine oil in the oil pan which negatively affects engine wear. Therefore engine oil temperatures above 100°C are desirable to minimize engine wear through blow by condensate. The paper presents a new technique to warm up the engine oil that significantly reduces the friction losses and therefore also reduces the fuel economy penalty during a 22°C cold start NEDC. Chassis dynamometer experiments demonstrated fuel economy improvements of over 7% as well as significant emission reductions by rapidly increasing the oil temperature. Oil temperatures were increased by up to 60°C during certain parts of the NEDC."

http://papers.sae.org/2011-01-0318

This is essentially what I do with my Civic. Cool to see a paper on it with similar results to my very rough measurements. Many people ask why I have a block warmer when I rarely see anything below 40F in my garage in the winter and tend to be in the 80F+ for half of the year. I would see about a 10% improvement in MPG on the 4 mile drive in to work when it was ~32F in the morning. I'd generally start with a coolant temp ~110F after three hours of heating at ~400W. Don't know if it would be worth it if I paid extra for power here in California but the solar panel system I installed generates more than I use so it's essentially power at no additional cost for me.

 

[umungus1122]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
I agree with CATERHAM, xW20 in winter for cold weather and short trips.

+1 If you use dino 5w-20, more frequent changes wouldn't hurt.

 

[antonmnster]

I've got the same problem. My work is 1.4 miles (and one stoplight) away.

There's certainly more wear, at least according to my last UOA. And there's a TON of blow-by that you're going to have to make sure doesn't plug up your PCV.

The problem is that at around 0F, the oil really isn't even going to warm up enough to cook off the water unless you drive for hours. I'm lucky if the oil can make it to 180F after a 1/2 hr drive if it's below 5F.

FWIW, I change mine around Thanksgiving, and again sometime in April using M1 0-40.

 

[hattaresguy]

During the winter on some days the temp needle on my truck will hardly move since I work so close to my house.

The OLM compensates and comes on before 5k, vs about 8k now. GM's OLM seems to be pretty good.

 

[Kuato]

With those low temperatures, my plan would be to use 0wxx synthetic, start with the severe service oil change interval, and have a UOA done; then go from there.

 

[bigdawg74]

To the OP: need more info. Will the Saturn be used just for work and back? Any other weekend use? Just assuming that it is used to/from work only, then you are looking at an annual mileage of just under 800. I would highly recommend that it be driven some distance on a regular basis to burn off fuel/contaminates. Maybe she could carpool w/ co-workers? Go with cheap dino and change every 4 to 6 months.

 

[Aquaticentipede]

How's about just getting an oil pan heater & plug it in?

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: Aquaticentipede
How's about just getting an oil pan heater & plug it in?

I agree. If OP has a mean to plug it in with a timer to run an oil pan heater 3-4 hour before start the engine in the morning. But after parking at work for 8-9 hours and 1.5-2 miles home is not good. Car is needed a good distance on highway once in a while.

 

[mechtech2]

Forget the expensive synthetic oil.
It won't stop water and blowby contaminants from infusing themselves in the oil.
Use dino and change it often.
What is often for you? 3k or so.