Extreme Sludge, 305 SBC Engine

[Dallas69]

If you're using a qt of oil every 500 miles I'm afraid you have serious engine issues.
Even if you cleaned it up you would still be using oil a lot.
You can just live with it or start looking for a new motor if you can't rebuild yourself.

 

[demarpaint]

Welcome fellow Long Islander!

I think you can clean it up. I would do as much manual cleaning as possible before introducing any cleaners into the engine. If possible I would drop the pan and clean what I can down there too. If not clean up the valve train as well as you can. I'd buy a couple of quarts of Kreen and follow the directions, you might get lucky. The Kreen might free up sticking rings. That and replacing the stem seals might reduce consumption. If not a rebuild might be in order.

Since you're on the Island I know of a good machine shop, should you decide to have the engine rebuilt. Good luck.

 

[mazdamonky]

Thanks for all of the pictures MadMax. It is cool to watch this process. I would try using some cheap HDEO or Synthetic oil and take the car on a few good long hour plus drives to get the heat up. this should allow the oil to do its job better. Do maybe 3 or 4 1.5 hour drives over the course of 1k miles and change the oil to see what it looks like.

 

[kc8adu]

pull the tbi.
the vacuum passage in the base is blocked.
replace the fuel pressure regulator spring too.it rots when the pcv clogs.
common to see this very problem.no pcv=sludging.

 

[alarmguy]

Great photos, takes me back decades when engines would look like that. I would take care of what you can and simply keep using a CJ4 oil and change 4 times a year. Im no expert by any means, just what I would do.

PS. born, raised and spent most my life on the South Shore of Long Island, great memories, good friends but in the last decade I moved to the land of the free! *L*

 

[steve20]

it looks like it's carbed---

 

[Buhwheat]

Originally Posted By: kc8adu
pull the tbi.
the vacuum passage in the base is blocked.
replace the fuel pressure regulator spring too.it rots when the pcv clogs.
common to see this very problem.no pcv=sludging.


Yes.

This reminds me of about where I'm at. I am dealing with a sludger now. It's super bad. I used an aggressive and short clean cycle, over months of around-town driving (engine not frequently up to normal operating temperature) and that oil is coming out soon.

What I see on the dipstick is nasty. When it comes out the drain hole.. I've been having visions about how it will look. I may use conventional, since I already used a decent amount of cleaning agent, really using up the TBN of whatever was in there for who knows how long.

OP, your engine takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin'.

 

[Trackrat73]

I would do what kc8adu says. But then I would test the cooling system by pressure checking. I dont think thats a problem, but it wouldnt hurt. Check the fan clutch too. You said you replaced the T-stat it because it had no heat. Well thats probably why it was low on coolant, the T-stat was bad and the cooling system pushed out some water. It is also why the sludge is so bad. The truck probably never got up to operating temperature. You said you installed a 180 degree T-stat, well that got me thinking, and as far as I know a stock TBI SBC need a 195 degree T-stat to run correctly. They will run on a 180 degree but some dont like it. The computer will keep seeing the lower temp and keep adding fuel to raise the temp. Also check the 2 temperature sensor/senders in the heads, one for the dash gauge and the other talks to the computer. Stock TBI's are temperature sensitive. Plus the higher temperature will allow the oil to get hotter and work better at cleaning. Leave the Rotella in there and drive it. Dont think that a 10 minute BG cleaner is going do wonders. Take drive out Montauk and back a few times. After a thousand miles or so dump the oil. Then you will see some black dirty oil.

 

[Madmax908]

To show the direction I will take with the truck, I have to tell you what it will be used for.

My last truck was a 2500 series Ram. It was great until the wife wanted to put 7 or 8 people in it.
In the spirit of marital harmony, I traded it in on the Expedition.
I could fit most of my HDepot, etc into the rear of the SUV and all was well.

...until I put my first deer in the back

The truck will mostly be driven locally, with 3-4 trips a year of about 300 miles.
Parts and insurance (and hopefully maintenance) are very cheap for the truck, and there are many low mile replacement engines available for +/- $350-500 if the need arises.
If the engine dies, I would look into an LS motor, and help with a transmission from my buddy. (Its a manual 4 speed now). In the spirit of energy expense (ie laziness) would prefer to keep the engine that's in it and get it in decent running condition.

For now, I will short interval the oil changes and monitor the oil, filter, and pressre guage.

I have to go and pick up the valve seals, new thermostat (thanks Blckstanger), and look into a fuel pressure spring.
When I get back I'll start cutting some filters.

 

[Trackrat73]

BTW try and use an AC-Delco T-stat. The Aftermarket ones can be problematic. Erratic opening and closing.

 

[BrocLuno]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
You are going to have to drive it around a bit and let the oil do it's thing. If you're just running it up to temp and draining, that's not going to give the oil enough time to do anything.


+1

BG109 needs time too. You need to put in a whole can (or 2...) and oil to fill level and drive it at least a week. Then change the oil and do it again.

My guess is to get the pan off, you'll have to jack up the motor... So chemical cleaning is OK for a while. Also run the biggest oversized filter you can fit. You need media area to capture stuff.

KREEN would be the faster way, but more costly and more aggressive, so maybe too aggressive ...

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:
...For now, I will short interval the oil changes and monitor the oil, filter, and pressre guage.

I have to go and pick up the valve seals, new thermostat (thanks Blckstanger), and look into a fuel pressure spring.
When I get back I'll start cutting some filters...



Changing filters regularly will be important as one will find that a lot of sludge is entrained in them with a sludged engine.

It's your choice but not even a good oil will not clean it completely. A slow engine cleaning is good and the solvents in BG109 or LCD20 will help that process.

I would also recommend a piston soak in order to free up the rings.

 

[Malo83]

I have a 305 in my 83 Silverado with 230K original miles, there is no instant fix to get all the crud out, my suggestion is to run Pennz High Mileage oil with more highway speeds to get the oil really circulated in the engine, I do 3K oil changes on my Silverado, been doing it since I bought the truck new, I get that puff of smoke at the first start of the day but she's fine after that and she doesn't lose any oil.

 

[nascarnation]

That's only "extreme" sludging by the OCD standards of BITOG.
97% of the world would keep dumping in oil and ride on blissfully.

 

[BrocLuno]

True enough ...

 

[CELICA_XX]

Originally Posted By: Trackrat73
It is also why the sludge is so bad. The truck probably never got up to operating temperature.


I was waiting for someone to say this!
I agree.



People always repeat the line about Pennzoil being miracle cleaners, but that hasn't been my experience.
I gave it a try for 60,000 miles with no noticeable difference whatsoever.

 

[Madmax908]

Ok, went to the store and bought a 195* thermostat (thanks Trackrat) and a larger filter (thanks BrocLuno).
The guy behind the counter "cant be held responsible" for the larger filter (PF932) because it doesnt fit on my truck in the computer.

Anyway I cut apart the filters to see what I'd find.

First was the filter that came on the truck, a NAPA ProSelect 21060.




I see small granules of sludge but nothing horriffic.
BTW. I was looking at the top of the filter before I destroyed it.



DOES THIS MEAN THIS FILTER IS FROM 11/09/03 ?!

 

[Madmax908]

Next filter was the one after the first BG109 treatment and drain after 10 minutes.

There is clearly sludge granules being filtered out compared to the first filter, but it was in no way packed with sludge after 10 minutes of running (cleaning?).

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Originally Posted By: Madmax908

DOES THIS MEAN THIS FILTER IS FROM 11/09/03 ?!

Looks more like 11/09/10 to me, followed by C3.
???

 

[KL31]

Oil flushes are a waste of money. Best thing would be to buy a replacement engine or rebuild this one. You will see how hard that gunk is to get off. There is no way oil changes will do anything (maybe clean it by 0.5%).

Think about a brand new rebuild and being able to keep it looking brand new internally with frequent oci with your choice of oil! That's what I did with my mazda engine. 60,000kms and looks the same as when I rebuilt. It was consuming loads of oil too and fouling spark plugs. It took a proper chemical bath to get the gunk off it.