Evolution of Motorcycles

[BigCahuna]

Originally Posted By: skyactiv
Where most motorcycles are behind in technology is the lack of offering an automatic transmission. Most people want to shift their own gears on a bike, but most people wanna buy a vehicle with four wheels that has an automatic. Shifting a bike sucks compared to shifting a manual transmission in a car. I've owned plenty of motorcycles in my lifetime. Honda has a few bikes with a true automatic, Harley and most everyone else doesn't.
Shifting a motorcycle gives the rider a sense of connection to the vehicle. Honda tried marketing a automatic trans, but nobody bought them. That's why they stopped making them. Scooters are the closest thing to a automatic trans you're gonna find these days.,,

 

[ZeeOSix]

My neighbor has a Yamaha FJ1200 with an auto transmission. He's spent about $3000 on two shop visits for shifting problems. It's so complicated that the Yamaha shop needs to call Yamaha Tech Support to trouble shoot and fix it. I told my neighbor that he should trade it in for a bike with a real transmission.

 

[RoadRaceJosh]

No one wants to mention the Honda DCT? http://en.honda-dct.com/

$3000 for service? I bought my '98 VFR 800 for $2650 some 5 years ago. Sure it had 57k on the clock, but it's got 71k miles now and is great.

 

[02SE]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
My neighbor has a Yamaha FJ1200 with an auto transmission. He's spent about $3000 on two shop visits for shifting problems. It's so complicated that the Yamaha shop needs to call Yamaha Tech Support to trouble shoot and fix it. I told my neighbor that he should trade it in for a bike with a real transmission.


I had an FJ1200 back in the day. They never had an auto trans. Maybe you're thinking of the more recent FJR1300AE, it had a semi-auto transmission, but was discontinued.

 

[Silk]

No mention of suspension - girders and Earles to teles, rigid to plunger, twin shock to mono shock. I've been through them all, and the change from short travel twin shocks to 300mm front and rear was just night and day, a bigger jump than any engine changes. Traveling at speed off road on a '70's dirt bike was very scary, late '70's and early '80's you could go double or triple the speed without thinking about it. I still ride a twinshock trials bike, but what they can do on a modern trials bike is unthinkable on a twinshock.

 

[Silk]

Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
In 1960 a British journalist wrote an article about the 1960 Triumph Bonneville 650cc motorcycle. It weighed just under 400 pounds and had 40 horsepower. His conclusion was that no one could possibly need a lighter bike with more power. He considered this bike to be the ultimate thrill for anyone brave enough to attempt to ride it to its full potential.


I haven't moved very far - I grew up on 2 valve pushrod 650 twins (well, 15 years on an XS1 too, the ohc wasn't any improvement), and still ride one today. I'd like less weight sure, but on the roads I ride, using it to it's full potential is going to get you into a lot of trouble. Still ample bike for me.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: 02SE
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
My neighbor has a Yamaha FJ1200 with an auto transmission. He's spent about $3000 on two shop visits for shifting problems. It's so complicated that the Yamaha shop needs to call Yamaha Tech Support to trouble shoot and fix it. I told my neighbor that he should trade it in for a bike with a real transmission.


I had an FJ1200 back in the day. They never had an auto trans. Maybe you're thinking of the more recent FJR1300AE, it had a semi-auto transmission, but was discontinued.

Don't know the exact model of his bike, but looks like an older FJ series Yamaha, so the model you gave is probably what it is.

It's stranded him twice on the road due to the transmission not shifting and making the bike totally immobile, once about 50~60 miles from home.

The 2nd repair needed some kind of electronic module that controls the shifting, and the module was some crazy price like $1500 only available through Yamaha. Plus the whole swingarm needed to be R&R to bleed some hydraulic unit, so labor was intensive. No wonder Yamaha discontinued the bike.

 

[LoneRanger]

Originally Posted By: 02SE

I have a bike with all the latest electronic rider aids. It's fairly fast and fun, but I still prefer my old hot-rodded bike that has no electronic safety nannies at all. It's entirely up to me to not end up on my head.


Yup, my '16 Multistrada had it all, the new Bosch lean angle and inertia sensoring system that modulates ABS's strength dependent upon lean angle, traction ctrl modulation, you name it. I still went down.

The Stelvio has ABS and traction ctrl but no lean angle modulation.

 

[sunruh]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
I love motorcycles, but if cars were developed at the the same rate, most would still be stuck in the 50s.


you mean just like a harley

 

[gman2304]

Originally Posted By: sunruh
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
I love motorcycles, but if cars were developed at the the same rate, most would still be stuck in the 50s.


you mean just like a harley


OUCH.....!

 

[HouseTiger]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: HouseTiger
On the other hand, if bikes developed like cars, they'd have all wheel drive with power assist added to the anti-lock brakes, traction control, climate control, electrically adjustable saddles, handle bars, mirrors, and foot controls. We'd have air bags and saddle belts.

I'm glad they haven't developed to that level. Where modern bikes are right now with technology like TC, antilock brakes, engine modes and adjustible suspension is plenty enough for me.


Amen to that. My 05 Honda VT1100 has dual carbs that are rather easily tuned. It has all the technology that it needs to make it work without a bunch of bells and whistles. Riding doesn't get much simpler.

 

[David_g]

One of the key developments in early motorcycles was a modernish pressurized recirculating oiling system.
Henderson had it around 1920, others got it later. Imagine riding with a total loss oiling system with manual pump.

 

[David_g]

What's this about gear shifter invented in 1978? I see that on a lot of motorcycle timelines, and either they're talking about something much older, or they're talking about something modern but not really relevant.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: skyactiv
Where most motorcycles are behind in technology is the lack of offering an automatic transmission. Most people want to shift their own gears on a bike, but most people wanna buy a vehicle with four wheels that has an automatic. Shifting a bike sucks compared to shifting a manual transmission in a car. I've owned plenty of motorcycles in my lifetime. Honda has a few bikes with a true automatic, Harley and most everyone else doesn't.


Where many motorcycles are behind is their use of valvetrains that need regular adjustments. (Bonus points for using 19th-century relic chaindrives that need almost-daily attention.) There is no excuse for either one.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: David_g
What's this about gear shifter invented in 1978? I see that on a lot of motorcycle timelines, and either they're talking about something much older, or they're talking about something modern but not really relevant.

There's some more details in this motorcycle timeline.

https://www.timetoast.com/timelines/the-invention-of-the-motorcycle

 

[David_g]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: David_g
What's this about gear shifter invented in 1978? I see that on a lot of motorcycle timelines, and either they're talking about something much older, or they're talking about something modern but not really relevant.

There's some more details in this motorcycle timeline.

https://www.timetoast.com/timelines/the-invention-of-the-motorcycle

Yes I had seen that. Which is why I said either they have the time way off, or they're talking about something irrelevant. It could be that someone made a timeline with a Mountweazel and other sites copied it.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: David_g
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: David_g
What's this about gear shifter invented in 1978? I see that on a lot of motorcycle timelines, and either they're talking about something much older, or they're talking about something modern but not really relevant.

There's some more details in this motorcycle timeline.

https://www.timetoast.com/timelines/the-invention-of-the-motorcycle

Yes I had seen that. Which is why I said either they have the time way off, or they're talking about something irrelevant. It could be that someone made a timeline with a Mountweazel and other sites copied it.

There's a figure in the patend link below. This is all it is - it's not the first shifter ever invented.

http://www.google.com.gi/patents/US4083263

If you Google search for "motorcycle shifter patend" you get lots of patend records that span across many years.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
In 1960 a British journalist wrote an article about the 1960 Triumph Bonneville 650cc motorcycle. It weighed just under 400 pounds and had 40 horsepower. His conclusion was that no one could possibly need a lighter bike with more power. He considered this bike to be the ultimate thrill for anyone brave enough to attempt to ride it to its full potential. This bike was inexpensive enough to be within the reach of any young man with the desire to own it. This young person would probably never run into someone with one of the very rare bikes that were faster and the same could be said for automobiles as well.

Things have changed a bit over the years.
I remember the Suzuki X6 Hustler [250cc 2 stroke] would embarrass a Bonneville in a drag race. I am that old.


I had both bikes back in my school days. The X6 was really quick with a 6-speed, a one trick pony kind of like the 3 cylinder 2-stroke 500 cc, Kawasaki. If you could do a full throttle start with that Kawasaki you were one brave rider. In a quarter mile drag race with a good rider, you could not hear the bike shift gears, it was just one steady shriek. A school mate had a new one and made his payments by racing against cars. The Bonny was a very good Sunday morning bike back then and for its time really fast. The big improvement back then for the Bonny was making the transmission one unit with the engine instead of separate units with a chain. That was a big deal.


I had a 1970 Kaw 500 with expansion chambers. Quick isn't enough of a word to describe this thing, but as quick as it was, the 750 triple was even scarier...my buddy had a '73 and he used to let me take it all the time as long as I filled the gas tank when I was done. It was a gas hog, and it didn't help that I ran WOT almost the whole time I was riding it...what a ride!

 

[David_g]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
There's a figure in the patend link below. This is all it is - it's not the first shifter ever invented.

http://www.google.com.gi/patents/US4083263

If you Google search for "motorcycle shifter patend" you get lots of patend records that span across many years.

That clears it up. It's a "correct" detail but utterly irrelevant to the motorcycle timeline. Perhaps it was put in by someone with no idea about motorcycle history. Not likely it was a Mountweazel, since it's technically correct even if it's utterly irrelevant.

 

[ZeeOSix]

^^^ David_g ... I agree.