Evolution and Humans

[AlienBug]

Originally Posted By: virginoil
Originally Posted By: BRZED
Faith can occur only i the absence of proof. This is a religious thread if I've ever seen one.


It takes more effort to believe in atheism and evolution than a design by a creator.

Easier to believe in a creator and I have proof beyond doubt.


1. Atheists lack faith in a god or gods. By definition one cannot "believe" in atheism.

2. The beauty of thought and science is that one does not need to believe. One can instead observe and measure. You can understand why it is true, or deny it based in Bronze Age fairy tales. But it is true nonetheless.

 

[javacontour]

Sort of.

Ultimately, you have to have faith that you have the means to measure all the salient details needed for understanding.

So there is a measure (pardon the pun) of faith in science. You place your faith in the notion your knowledge and technology is sufficient to understand enough to make a determination.

That may or may not be true, making science no less an act of faith than religion.

Originally Posted By: AlienBug
Originally Posted By: virginoil
Originally Posted By: BRZED
Faith can occur only i the absence of proof. This is a religious thread if I've ever seen one.


It takes more effort to believe in atheism and evolution than a design by a creator.

Easier to believe in a creator and I have proof beyond doubt.


1. Atheists lack faith in a god or gods. By definition one cannot "believe" in atheism.

2. The beauty of thought and science is that one does not need to believe. One can instead observe and measure. You can understand why it is true, or deny it based in Bronze Age fairy tales. But it is true nonetheless.

 

[virginoil]

Originally Posted By: AlienBug
Originally Posted By: virginoil
Originally Posted By: BRZED
Faith can occur only i the absence of proof. This is a religious thread if I've ever seen one.


It takes more effort to believe in atheism and evolution than a design by a creator.

Easier to believe in a creator and I have proof beyond doubt.


1. Atheists lack faith in a god or gods. By definition one cannot "believe" in atheism.

2. The beauty of thought and science is that one does not need to believe. One can instead observe and measure. You can understand why it is true, or deny it based in Bronze Age fairy tales. But it is true nonetheless.


How can you be an atheist unless you believe in atheism.

How can you say that there are NO gods unless you believe this to be fact.

Then you say if are an atheist you do not believe by definition.

Then you say the beauty of thought and science is that one does not need to believe. This statement is a lie.

All you are saying to me "is that you believe that there are NO gods and you have placed your faith (belief system) in the beauty of thought and science without any effort or question as this is 2nd nature to you".

Your god is the god of "thought and science".

 

[stockrex]

Originally Posted By: AlienBug
Originally Posted By: virginoil
Originally Posted By: BRZED
Faith can occur only i the absence of proof. This is a religious thread if I've ever seen one.


It takes more effort to believe in atheism and evolution than a design by a creator.

Easier to believe in a creator and I have proof beyond doubt.


some of the nicest, balanced, caring individuals I have encountered are atheists.


1. Atheists lack faith in a god or gods. By definition one cannot "believe" in atheism.

2. The beauty of thought and science is that one does not need to believe. One can instead observe and measure. You can understand why it is true, or deny it based in Bronze Age fairy tales. But it is true nonetheless.

 

[CT8]

Originally Posted By: stockrex
Our evolution as humans beings has shown time and time again that we are getting smarter.

But then we get set back a few thousand years by not so smart actions like this one:

http://woodtv.com/2015/09/05/fire-at-wal-mart-in-cascade-township/

One reader put is very politely, he should stay in jail for his own safety.

if you thought it could not get any worse, well guess again, never under estimate a the will of a not so good bystander, not any bystander but one in a wheelchair.

http://wgntv.com/2015/09/08/man-in-wheel...f-walmart-fire/


I would say that as we evolve we are getting stupider. There is always the smarter people but in "nature" things get worst as time goes on. The mountains wash into the sea.

 

[BRZED]

Originally Posted By: virginoil
Originally Posted By: AlienBug
Originally Posted By: virginoil
Originally Posted By: BRZED
Faith can occur only i the absence of proof. This is a religious thread if I've ever seen one.


It takes more effort to believe in atheism and evolution than a design by a creator.

Easier to believe in a creator and I have proof beyond doubt.


1. Atheists lack faith in a god or gods. By definition one cannot "believe" in atheism.

2. The beauty of thought and science is that one does not need to believe. One can instead observe and measure. You can understand why it is true, or deny it based in Bronze Age fairy tales. But it is true nonetheless.


How can you be an atheist unless you believe in atheism.

How can you say that there are NO gods unless you believe this to be fact.

Then you say if are an atheist you do not believe by definition.

Then you say the beauty of thought and science is that one does not need to believe. This statement is a lie.

All you are saying to me "is that you believe that there are NO gods and you have placed your faith (belief system) in the beauty of thought and science without any effort or question as this is 2nd nature to you".

Your god is the god of "thought and science".


It seems to me that you equate belief with faith. Believing something and having faith in somethng are neither the same thing, nor are they mutually exclusive.

 

[javacontour]

Originally Posted By: BRZED


It seems to me that you equate belief with faith. Believing something and having faith in somethng are neither the same thing, nor are they mutually exclusive.


Belief and faith more synonymous than not.

As I said before, even if you believe based on measurements and science, you have to have faith in your methods, in the sufficiency of your ability to know what to measure, your ability measure it, and so on.

So, in practical terms, it is little different than having a religious faith.

 

[BRZED]

Originally Posted By: javacontour
Originally Posted By: BRZED


It seems to me that you equate belief with faith. Believing something and having faith in somethng are neither the same thing, nor are they mutually exclusive.


Belief and faith more synonymous than not.

As I said before, even if you believe based on measurements and science, you have to have faith in your methods, in the sufficiency of your ability to know what to measure, your ability measure it, and so on.

So, in practical terms, it is little different than having a religious faith.


Please note that I did not bring science or religion into it at all. I am solely concerned with the difference in meaning between faith and belief. Either belief and faith are synonymous or not. "More synonymous" makes no sense. The two terms are related and share some commonalitiies, but they are different enough so it makes sense to use the appropriate word and not either one interchangeably. In some languages other than English there is only one word for these two terms, and these languages are poorer for it.You are free to look that up and inform yourself, or you may believe whatever, faithfully, or not.

 

[Benito]

People who "believe" or have "faith" in science do not consider themselves to be infallible, that it is impossible to be proven wrong or that new discoveries will change their understanding.

Some people with limited powers of reason often infer otherwise.

 

[BRZED]

Originally Posted By: Benito
People who "believe" or have "faith" in science do not consider themselves to be infallible, that it is impossible to be proven wrong or that new discoveries will change their understanding.

Some people with limited powers of reason often infer otherwise.


An example: While I believe in science, I would completely lack the faith to turn on the LHC for the first time.

 

[Benito]

Originally Posted By: BRZED
An example: While I believe in science, I would completely lack the faith to turn on the LHC for the first time.


In their acceptance speech they cited their relationship with God for why Earth was not sucked into a quantum singularity.

 

[BRZED]

Originally Posted By: Benito
Originally Posted By: BRZED
An example: While I believe in science, I would completely lack the faith to turn on the LHC for the first time.


In their acceptance speech they cited their relationship with God for why Earth was not sucked into a quantum singularity.


I have a feeling they should have said "...has not yet been sucked into a quantum singularity."

 

[virginoil]

see below

 

[virginoil]

Originally Posted By: BRZED
It seems to me that you equate belief with faith. Believing something and having faith in somethng are neither the same thing, nor are they mutually exclusive


My book says you act on what you believe that's how simple it is.

The creator has it down to this simplistic belief system so none are exempt from giving account when the day comes.

It may seem this is for the foolish, the weak, for those of low intellect, the uneducated, etc I would rather be all of these in this life than the alternative in the next.

My last post on this matter in this thread.

 

[Shannow]

Pascal's wager...

Does behaving correctly, and being nice to one another count, or does the merciful one expect you to believe or be cast down ?

Had that discussion with my parents when they suggested that they might put my children through certain rituals while we were in the states in 2010.

 

[Cujet]

Originally Posted By: Al

When 85% of people are heading in one direction its best to go the opposite way. That's an observation that has served me will in my life of 69 years.
Using 85% as part of justification for an action is hollow.


Best post on this thread! In so many ways.

In a way, it reminded me of my grandfathers favorite quote. "a mobs a monster, heads aplenty but no brains".

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: Cujet
Originally Posted By: Al

When 85% of people are heading in one direction its best to go the opposite way. That's an observation that has served me will in my life of 69 years.
Using 85% as part of justification for an action is hollow.


Best post on this thread! In so many ways.

In a way, it reminded me of my grandfathers favorite quote. "a mobs a monster, heads aplenty but no brains".


Just to clarify. I didn't make the statement "Using 85% as part of justification for an action is hollow." The person that didn't like the first coment made that..lol

 

[KrisZ]

I think it's pretty clear that our brain capacity is a huge overkill for our survival. So why would the "evolution" dictate such a drastic change when at its core it simply reacts to the changing environment to ensure the incremental changes are enough to survive?
Is the capacity to love, hate, kill without reason or for sport, cry, laugh etc. really needed for survival?

Why no other species on Earth developed a brain capacity that would come within a mile of ours in order to survive? This "evolution" seems pretty selective considering the millions of species it could choose from and that were "evolving" for far longer than we've supposedly had.

Also, life supposedly started about 3.8 billion years ago. Currently it is estimated that we have about 8.7 million of species on Earth (obviously this number is just what we know and discovered, it is much bigger in actuality).
Simple mathematics will tell us that on average a new evolution would have to take place every 400 years or so. But evolution takes anywhere from hundreds of thousands to millions of years, so we're told! How did we go from 0 to 8.7 million and counting then?

So what exactly was it about the science of evolution and facts and not having faith or beliefs or any of that religious "rubbish"?

 

[Benito]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Pascal's wager...

Does behaving correctly, and being nice to one another count, or does the merciful one expect you to believe or be cast down ?

Had that discussion with my parents when they suggested that they might put my children through certain rituals while we were in the states in 2010.


What about those who ONLY act good because they want to be judged favorably by God? This always seemed disingenuous to me. God would surely know that your reasons were not true and judge you on intent not just actions.

Always worked to keep the kids and masses in line though.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: Benito
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Pascal's wager...

Does behaving correctly, and being nice to one another count, or does the merciful one expect you to believe or be cast down ?

Had that discussion with my parents when they suggested that they might put my children through certain rituals while we were in the states in 2010.


What about those who ONLY act good because they want to be judged favorably by God? This always seemed disingenuous to me. God would surely know that your reasons were not true and judge you on intent not just actions.

Always worked to keep the kids and masses in line though.


Well, there is this one little thing that no other animal has on this planet and that is free will. Is that also to keep us "in line"?