Every Other Oil Change, Change Filter????

[Sayjac]

Quote:
...I've heard some claim that the dry start up caused by the empty filter is causing more wear than dirty oil.....

That's an opinion, afaik unsupported by any scientific evidence or studies. There's a thread on this board that basically says Honda does it because they determined the filter could last two oci's, having nothing to do with there being an engine wear advantage as related to dry start.

Ultra is soild filter, but if used only 4500 miles, it's a waste imo. The Ultra could easily handle two 4500+ mi ocis. If the OP is going to change the filter each time as indicated might as well go with a P1 or some equivalent silicone adbv filter and get a more reasonable ROI. As reference, here's two P1's run one oci and a BD+ run two oci's all on Hondas. All run longer than 4500 mi. and worked well for me.

Pure One PL14610 ~7800 mile oci,
P1 PL14610 ~6500 mile oci ,
Bosch Dist. Plus ~13.5k miles 2 oci's

 

[dnewton3]

"Dirty" oil is a state of mind, unless you have particle count data to back it up ... what you think is not necessarily what exists.

The SAE 2007-01-4133 paper (Ford/Conoco) showed significant wear reduction out to 15k miles, using conventional oil and a M/C filter ...

I have run 10k (Puro Classic) and 15k (M/C) O/FCIs and had great wear at or below average, proven in UOA data.

If Honda is saying to change the filter every other OCI, it's fine, and you don't need a super-duper filter to get you there. Honda and Toyota filters are about as mundane as they come; low efficiency. Considering the general nature of those two engine brands to run a LONG time, it leads one to conclude two things:
1) todays engines generally run very clean; super filtration is not a requirement
2) most O/FCIs are ultra conservative; any typical product will suffice

Now, if you have a known trouble-prone engine, or have an engine that has sufferd serious neglect for many years, then I'd have to retract my recommendation. But otherwise, it's perfectly safe to do so; it will protect your engine and your wallet at the same time.

 

[edwardh1]

its what I have decided to do, toyota and a maxima, change dino every 4500 or 5000, use an ultra or a toyota oem and change every other change.
most of the mess is in the filter change.
best of all worlds-
cheap approach ,
fresh oil every 5000,
and good filtering, whats not to like???

 

[KCJeep]

Since you're talking about a 9k FCI, I'd pick a Tough Guard for that. Three bucks less than an Ultra, same great 99% efficiency and stronger media than the Pure1 in my opinion. The TG is rated by Fram for 10k OCI's, perfect for your intended use.

 

[Bud]

You have to do what makes you happy. Its your vehicle. I am the new filter every time I change my oil type. Always will be no matter what anyone else says. I know it is a total waste of money to toss my Bosch D+ early, but I do it anyway.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: Bud
You have to do what makes you happy. Its your vehicle. I am the new filter every time I change my oil type. Always will be no matter what anyone else says. I know it is a total waste of money to toss my Bosch D+ early, but I do it anyway.

Well said Sir!

 

[DragRace]

Originally Posted By: Bud
You have to do what makes you happy. Its your vehicle. I am the new filter every time I change my oil type. Always will be no matter what anyone else says. I know it is a total waste of money to toss my Bosch D+ early, but I do it anyway.

 

[InvalidUserID]

I've been of the fresh oil, fresh filter crowd but that is running the same change for about a year and usually 7-9k miles a year.

On my "extra car" Jeep that sees about 4k miles a year, I knew I was going to try the every other oil change filter change, so I bumped up for the Bosch D+. One year/4-5k on the oil, keep the filter, change the oil. At the end of that, change the filter.

I'm confident a Bosch D+ can handle 10k since the UOA #s of the Jeep came back looking good.

 

[steve20]

Originally Posted By: TrevorS
Originally Posted By: qwerty1234
This next oil change I plan on doing what the Honda manual states and change the oil filter every OTHER change. I do oil changes about every 4,500 miles. I was think about a FRAM Ultra or could a Purelator Pure One work? Thanx


If engine is clean than Pure One as it has higher rated efficiency.

Also remember that if Honda recommend double interval, then Purolator should spec all their filters that cross reference to go that distance. So the distance on the box is irrelevant.


The statement about P-1 having better effeciency is completely INCORRECT. In the Honda sizes they are rated 99% at 40 (four zero) microns, not 20 mics like the rest of the P-1 line. The Fram has better efficiency in this case

 

[DragRace]

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
"Dirty" oil is a state of mind, unless you have particle count data to back it up ... what you think is not necessarily what exists.

The SAE 2007-01-4133 paper (Ford/Conoco) showed significant wear reduction out to 15k miles, using conventional oil and a M/C filter ...

I have run 10k (Puro Classic) and 15k (M/C) O/FCIs and had great wear at or below average, proven in UOA data.

If Honda is saying to change the filter every other OCI, it's fine, and you don't need a super-duper filter to get you there. Honda and Toyota filters are about as mundane as they come; low efficiency. Considering the general nature of those two engine brands to run a LONG time, it leads one to conclude two things:
1) todays engines generally run very clean; super filtration is not a requirement
2) most O/FCIs are ultra conservative; any typical product will suffice

Now, if you have a known trouble-prone engine, or have an engine that has sufferd serious neglect for many years, then I'd have to retract my recommendation. But otherwise, it's perfectly safe to do so; it will protect your engine and your wallet at the same time.



Dirty oil is not a state of mind as you put it.You ever seen what dirty oil does to engine bearings? Obviously not!

 

[Sayjac]

Originally Posted By: Bud
You have to do what makes you happy. Its your vehicle. I am the new filter every time I change my oil type. Always will be no matter what anyone else says. I know it is a total waste of money to toss my Bosch D+ early, but I do it anyway.

If you're paying the Wally everyday price for the BD+ and "early" means regularly running it less than ~10k miles, considering the 'ROI,' I would agree with the 'waste' portion of the comment. I say this because there are many silicone adbv filters for $5-6 or less, that will easily do a ~7500 minimum oci in a well maintained vehicle. Imo, same goes for tossing 'any' extended oci and/or synthetic oil filter for < 10k oci. If your preference is to change the filter each oci, I'd pick another quality silicone adbv filter that is more cost effective to the oci/fci.

But, if spending more money with no appreciable benefit(s)from that premium filter both terms of price, efficiency etc. makes you happy, it is your money do with as your please.

 

[GaleHawkins]

Found this info a bit helpful concerning ratings.

The best I can tell we have two major options. We can have filters that filter really well or we can have filters that catch smaller particles at a slower rate but can be ran more miles.

I guess that mean one can not have a cake and eat it as well.

However if a filter will catch a 12 micron particle 50% of the time and hold it it seems like over time it should catch a lot of them but I know they keep getting produced.

Maybe a dino change with a traditional oil filter at 5000 miles will yield a longer engine life than synthetic oil with a synthetic filter at 15,000 mile OCI's.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: GaleHawkins
Maybe a dino change with a traditional oil filter at 5000 miles will yield a longer engine life than synthetic oil with a synthetic filter at 15,000 mile OCI's.


I doubt that ... our member Mr. Newton can elaborate.

 

[Cristobal]

I am doing it by mileage, and that usually will mean every other oil change. Right now, on the second change my Napa Pro Select is still keeping the oil clear, which means it is filtering. I will take it to a little over 8000 miles total. An STP E-Core will be good for 6000 miles. Something like the Fram Extended Guard in my stash will do 15,000.

 

[GaleHawkins]

I can remember when oil filters were optional equipment like the Fram filter kit dad added to the old 1960 Biscayne. In that era the word was to change the filter every other time so I guess we are going through that phase again.

Just got the 2000 Towncar changed this morning. I was near a quart low and not real clear any more at 3000.

 

[dnewton3]

Originally Posted By: Bud
You have to do what makes you happy. Its your vehicle. I am the new filter every time I change my oil type. Always will be no matter what anyone else says. I know it is a total waste of money to toss my Bosch D+ early, but I do it anyway.


That part I like the best? He acknowledges the waste as an emotional issue. It would bug me to no end, but it does not bother him. He's aware of the issue, and does as he pleases. Rather than try to squirm around the facts, or dance aside with rhetoric, he just flat admits the waste and moves on! Where others would try to self-justify and manufacture something from nothing, he just cuts right to it!

Kudos sir, for telling the truth and claiming your happiness. I cannot find fault in a statement such as yours! You are to be commended for honesty and the ability to recognize your situation at face value, and own it rather than deny it.

I respect that.

 

[GaleHawkins]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: GaleHawkins
Maybe a dino change with a traditional oil filter at 5000 miles will yield a longer engine life than synthetic oil with a synthetic filter at 15,000 mile OCI's.


I doubt that ... our member Mr. Newton can elaborate.

That would be nice to see. To date I have not found any facts pointing to any passenger car legally driven in the USA on public roads will have any longer functional engine life running dino oil that meets owner manual specs than running synthetic. If a maker specs Synthetic motor oil than run it by all means. If it does not then dino will make as many miles as synthetic. Most engines that land in a junk yard were running when the chassis passed on.

Today in the USA even the lower priced motor oils that meet the manual specs are far beyond the best motor oil 10-20 years ago. What motor oil to use in the USA today (do not know about other places in the world) is an emotional decision because all oil of the same specs are functionally equal.

To find a better motor oil option than WM Super Tech Full Synthetic since it specs the same as some Mobil One I expect one would have to look at adding some of the nano, etc stuff like Liqui Moly Ceratec, AR9100 or AR9300 from Archoil.

Motor oil science is progressing but with all oils on the shelf today being basically equal if they meet the same API specs the discussion will have to move on to the new science.

Filter science is changing we know and every other oil change, change the filter may be or not be the way to go. The use of Archoil 9100 or 9300 is to at least double OCI's it claims. Not sure any filters are good for 30K miles yet?

The point by Archoil (which I have only started testing their AR6200 fuel stablizer) is if you use an additive that stops nearly all engine wear there is less work for the oil filter.

Moving our minds to the new generation of motor oil concerns and facts may no be easy.

 

[Eddie]

If MAZDA recomended it, I'd do the 2X filter change. Since there is only about 250ML in the new smaller filters, it's a no brainer for me. There is more leftover oil in the head and oil lines than that. Ed

 

[walk23]

To those that prefer to change their filters at the time the oil is changed the question would be how they look at air filter changes. I think the consensus with air filters has been to run them longer than normal recommendations and is supported by reduced silicon in UOA's. I've been using the Fram Ultra and have been toying with the idea of of running it for two oil changes. If better filtration is possible through less frequent oil filter changes, why would anyone continue to hold onto something that isn't in the best interest of extending engine life ?

If bypass filtration works in extending oil life and maybe engine life why wouldn't an incremental increase occur through every other oil filter change, also ? I've tried the micro green filters and am convinced it too extends oil life.

 

[gfh77665]

Originally Posted By: GaleHawkins

That would be nice to see. To date I have not found any facts pointing to any passenger car legally driven in the USA on public roads will have any longer functional engine life running dino oil that meets owner manual specs than running synthetic.


Try telling that to Honda 3.5L VCM owners. But before you do, look up some of the pics and posts Trav has posted here in the past. Good Luck.