So your argument is you don't think the government is a business.....
EV EPA Calculated Numbers
- Thread starter Danno
- Start date
Tesla kind of does. The other manufacturers produce EVs as an unwanted obligation, to fluff ther cafe numbers and score points with virtue signaling school kids and big city dwellers.
There's no other logical reason for GM to keep the bolt going, losing money for 7 years. They knew they were too far behind Tesla as far as technology and they knew the bolt would likely never be profitable.
Kias and Hyundais are notoriously underrated. Porsche EVs as well. Not sure why that didn't happen on the ID.4.
Can't this term just die already? The only ones virtue signaling are the ones calling this virtue signaling. We see you. It's a pity party cry fest and we're all laughing at you. Most EV owners don't think the way you think we think so the tantrums are hilarious to us.
That said the MPGe calculations pad the numbers so ICE cars can still be made. I'm at least for now glad that it works this way. A number of cars I love would be dead already if it wasn't for EVs padding the numbers. Look at the calculations though. MPGe is a calculation equivalent to the miles per amount of energy compared to one gallon of gasoline. An ICE vehicle extracts at best 40% of the energy of a gallon of gas. The rest is wasted as heat. In the best conditions EVs are able to be 97% efficient with the power directly from the battery. That's why the number looks inflated. ICE takes a brunt of their loss straight from the tank. EVs take most of their loss when the power is created. We could calculate it from the point of crude out of the ground and the point where electric power is harvested and that would bring it closer together with the EV still coming out ahead, but the ICE process of calculating fuel economy has been used for so long that this is the method being used to get these numbers. I didn't finish reading the whole story, but if it's the one that was taken down earlier with the 6.67 calculation, no one uses that. The example was showing the Model Y getting 430mpg(I hadn't seen that until that story), but the real advertized MPGe was 123. Subtract out the loss for ICE tank to engine(which isn't accurate for electricity production) still gets you 49mpg. All this just helps save proper performance cars. SUVs and trucks are held to a lighter BS standard and I'd love them to have to conform to the stricter standards. I just want to see muscle cars and hot hatches still thrive.
You read correct, although that is calculated. I didn't actually charge to 100% and drive to 0 and cover 199mi. However, C&D did, and managed 190mi.
On my daily commute in good weather, I did charge to 100%, drive 210mi, and had 19% and a calculated 45mi left. 255mi range. Initially after charging to 100%, the car had estimated 257mi. This is my daily commute, not steady speed. That said, for a car rated at 206mi, I was okay with it.
I'll be sure to include the term "virtue signaling" as much as possible from now on.
I mean if you want to make sure that you're an angry confused person who is more concerned with appearing to being right as opposed to actually being right, be my guest.
Yes on ICE cars being made BUT my biggest problem with the padding of the numbers is that TESLA is also a player in the field. They take the bogus credits and sell them to multiple ICE manufacturers so that they do not get fined. Those credits then hit the balance sheet and make it look like TESLA is actually making a profit when in reality they are a credit laundering machine. That was the only way for some time that Tesla could show a profit as well as inflate the actual margin that they were making per vehicle., of the back of Government credits.
Yes, Yes they could but the number of credits with the artificial multiplier and with Tesla playing the same game they are able to sell them to other like GM to cover up what GM is short.
How so. ]
Well think of it this way. If they didn't make a surplus of CAFE credits, other companies may pay penalties or not be able to make the vehicle itself. Think of it as these companies sharing some profit for the privilege to make the vehicle. That or throw out CAFE altogether and just have more pollution, or in the case that you're claiming to sap all of Tesla's profits so they fail which would make the the aforementioned pollution issue come true.
You can be mad that they make money off of other companies in the process, but they're just operating in the business environment everyone else is. I'd be curious what part of their profit is that, but they sure sell a lot of cars for only making income on credits. Maybe if everyone else followed the rules they wouldn't have to buy credits from them and they would fail. I don't believe that to be the case though.
I would not suggest that we throw out CAFE, But what I am trying to make the point of is that producing EV's at this time is definitely MORE expensive than ICE and that profit on EV's is much less than what Tesla etc, says that it is at this time. All I am saying is that the profit and margin for EV's are being propped up on the back of ICE, not saying that it is right or wrong. What I do think is wrong is that the credits are being multiplied by an arbitrary number that has NO meaning other than to hide the fact that the ICE heavy producers cannot get even close to target and that FULL BEV producers use it to hide the true cost of producing EV's. Smoke and mirrors in my book and trust me, I have no hard feelings either way OTHER than it would be better to have full clarity than Bury the truth.
IMHO
You need to do some homework (only because I don’t want to type a full page)
Tesla lost money on every car it made for over ten years.
I don’t get your posts, only in the last 2 years can Tesla be said to be making money.
Even then the majority of profits were from China.
Btw. CAFE is government regulations making vehicles more expensive that consumers want to buy. The scandal you suggest is the other way around. It’s not the car manufacturers.
Hope this helps, I don’t need to say more (for once)
The information is readily available,
I would also say CAFE is also ending other ones, most of those are smaller, more efficient, and a number of performance cars funny enough.
I’ll throw in my two cents about the topic at hand….
I bought a first gen 2012 Nissan LEAF for wifey to drive the kids to school and back in order to avoid cold starting her GMC Acadia 3x each day just to drive the kids to school and back. I figured an electric golf car of a car would be ideal. Here’s what I learned…
EVs are a JOKE when it comes to efficiency on the road. Can’t use the AC or Heat because your range suffers. Can’t go highway speed or else your range is cut in half. You literally have to drive SUUUUUPER efficient ALL THE TIME in order to get reasonable range out of every charge. If you drive normally, keeping up with traffic, without TRYING to get the most out of the battery, it’s not efficient AT ALL and a small hybrid ICE vehicle makes WAY MORE SENSE in terms of actual transportation savings vs your average gas guzzler.
The fact that the government is trying to FORCE people into these EV cars is ridiculous because they aren’t efficient in REAL WORLD driving by NPC zombie drivers.
Btw, sitting by a charging station for 30-45 mins while you recharge is by far, the most idiotic thing associated with EVs.
Why would you WILLINGLY agree to waste your precious time on this earth at a charging station is beyond my comprehension. I recharge my LEAF overnight at home for $0.08 cents per kWh during off peak energy use. 
I bought a first gen 2012 Nissan LEAF for wifey to drive the kids to school and back in order to avoid cold starting her GMC Acadia 3x each day just to drive the kids to school and back. I figured an electric golf car of a car would be ideal. Here’s what I learned…
EVs are a JOKE when it comes to efficiency on the road. Can’t use the AC or Heat because your range suffers. Can’t go highway speed or else your range is cut in half. You literally have to drive SUUUUUPER efficient ALL THE TIME in order to get reasonable range out of every charge. If you drive normally, keeping up with traffic, without TRYING to get the most out of the battery, it’s not efficient AT ALL and a small hybrid ICE vehicle makes WAY MORE SENSE in terms of actual transportation savings vs your average gas guzzler.
The fact that the government is trying to FORCE people into these EV cars is ridiculous because they aren’t efficient in REAL WORLD driving by NPC zombie drivers.
Btw, sitting by a charging station for 30-45 mins while you recharge is by far, the most idiotic thing associated with EVs.
Why would you WILLINGLY agree to waste your precious time on this earth at a charging station is beyond my comprehension. I recharge my LEAF overnight at home for $0.08 cents per kWh during off peak energy use. 
I’ll throw in my two cents about the topic at hand….
I bought a first gen 2012 Nissan LEAF for wifey to drive the kids to school and back in order to avoid cold starting her GMC Acadia 3x each day just to drive the kids to school and back. I figured an electric golf car of a car would be ideal. Here’s what I learned…
EVs are a JOKE when it comes to efficiency on the road. Can’t use the AC or Heat because your range suffers. Can’t go highway speed or else your range is cut in half. You literally have to drive SUUUUUPER efficient ALL THE TIME in order to get reasonable range out of every charge. If you drive normally, keeping up with traffic, without TRYING to get the most out of the battery, it’s not efficient AT ALL and a small hybrid ICE vehicle makes WAY MORE SENSE in terms of actual transportation savings vs your average gas guzzler.
The fact that the government is trying to FORCE people into these EV cars is ridiculous because they aren’t efficient in REAL WORLD driving by NPC zombie drivers.
Btw, sitting by a charging station for 30-45 mins while you recharge is by far, the most idiotic thing associated with EVs.
Huh? I’ve taken a Tesla Model 3 on a road trip and the range does not get cut in half at highway speed. This was in August in California's Central Valley with the A/C on with the outside temperature near 100°F and the sun blaring down the glass roof. The estimated range was actually quite accurate.
The time to charge was more or less so what?
Not entirely true. Tesla was able to posts losses because they were spending hundreds of millions of dollars per year in R&D. So when they weren't stuffing their coffers with cash they were getting a technology jump that the rest of the industry would never be able to catch up to.
If they weren't spending hundreds of millions of dollars per year for R&D they would have been profitable around 2013 or 2014.
I found with the leaf the A/C doesn't use that much power but the heat does.I’ll throw in my two cents about the topic at hand….
I bought a first gen 2012 Nissan LEAF for wifey to drive the kids to school and back in order to avoid cold starting her GMC Acadia 3x each day just to drive the kids to school and back. I figured an electric golf car of a car would be ideal. Here’s what I learned…
EVs are a JOKE when it comes to efficiency on the road. Can’t use the AC or Heat because your range suffers. Can’t go highway speed or else your range is cut in half. You literally have to drive SUUUUUPER efficient ALL THE TIME in order to get reasonable range out of every charge. If you drive normally, keeping up with traffic, without TRYING to get the most out of the battery, it’s not efficient AT ALL and a small hybrid ICE vehicle makes WAY MORE SENSE in terms of actual transportation savings vs your average gas guzzler.
The fact that the government is trying to FORCE people into these EV cars is ridiculous because they aren’t efficient in REAL WORLD driving by NPC zombie drivers.
Btw, sitting by a charging station for 30-45 mins while you recharge is by far, the most idiotic thing associated with EVs.