European car hierarchy

[LouDawg]

So what in your opinion is the European car hierarchy as far as upscale and luxury coupes and sedans are concerned? In driving enthusiasts circles, which brands/models are considered top-notch and which ones bring up the rear? In general, I'm talking about the whole package of performance, handling, acceleration, quality, reliability, durability, and technology.

I'm mostly referring to cars in the "affordable" range of roughly $100K and less range, not the Ferrari's, Maseratis, Lamborghinis, Bentleys, Rolls-Royce crowd, which are usually out of reach for all but the wealthiest among us. More the Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Saab, Volvo, Jaguar, Alfa, VW, etc. group.

 

[Johnny]

This is just an opinion, but if I had the money, this is the order that I would go shopping.

BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Alfa, Jaguar, SAAB, Volvo, VW.

 

[VeeDubb]

Hierarchy for driving dynamics and handling (I'm omitting ultra high end cars like Ferrari, Aston Martin, etc because they are not relevant for 99.5% of population):
BMW
Audi
VW
SAAB
Benz
Jaguar
Volvo

Hierarchy purely for the sake of brand whoring:
Benz
Jaguar
BMW
Audi
SAAB
Volvo
VW

 

[gedcruise]

Mercedes is certainly at the top, although BMW is a very close second, and maybe equivalent.
I would rank Volvo, SAAB and Audi at the second level, with VW a distinct third.
Jags have always been in their own class. They have long been regarded as not very reliable, they were usually not as well made as the German and Swedish entries, but they were always very attractive, had gorgeous interiors, and were very comfortable cars to drive. In the old days, the Jags were great value. For the price of a four cylinder Benz W115, you could buy the far more luxurious XJ-6. Go back a bit farther, and the E-type was a grand less than the spartan and slow early 911. Of course, the Corvette was another grand less than the Jag, and would kill it on the race track of your choice.

 

[oilnoob425]

mersedes
bmw
audi
jaguar
volvo
saab
vw

 

[rjundi]

Top to bottom:

BMW, MB, Audi - top tier

VW,Volvo - middle range

Saab-bottom of the heap with outdated products and GM(opel) rebadges,

 

[VeeDubb]

Quote:

---

Top to bottom:

BMW, MB, Audi - top tier

VW,Volvo - middle range

Saab-bottom of the heap with outdated products and GM(opel) rebadges,

---

You would still put late model MBs in the top category? I would say your comment about SAABs also apply to late model MBs (AMG's excluded). In terms of driving dynamics, the recent E-class MB's are basically $55,000 Honda Accords.

 

[mcrn]

I saw a show on Discovery channel or the Learning channel about the autobahn. Well on the show they talked about cars getting out of the way for other cars. And the order they said on the show was Porsche, Mercedes, BMW, then Audi.

 

[VeeDubb]

Must have been Mercedes AMGs. Awesome cars.

 

[Master ACiD]

what about porsche? a nice 911 carrera comes to mind.

 

[mormit]

Mercedes...maybe Porche
BMW
Audi
Volvo
Jaguar
SAAB
Alfa
VW and Renault

 

[Aldaris]

Whatever it is, VW goes at the VERY VERY VERY VERY bottom of that list. They LOVE to put out garbage and ride it on BMW/Mercedes/Porsche's coattails as "German Engineering."

 

[VeeDubb]

I'd take a late model Passat, Jetta GLI or GTI over any late model Benz C or E class, or any Volvo......that is, unless I can sell the Benz or volvo, cash out and buy a VW. But that's just me.

 

[Tosh]

This isn't going to be a very interesting car bashing thread without the domestics: GM sells a fruity Cadillac (BLS?) over there that aims to win the luxury class clown award.

 

[Camu Mahubah]

I have a friend stationed in Germany in the eighties said they use Mercedes for taxi cabs.

 

[Benzadmiral]

Quote:

---

I have a friend stationed in Germany in the eighties said they use Mercedes for taxi cabs.

---

They did (and as far as I know, still do), mostly the diesels. Why would that ruin the brand's image? It suggests terrific ruggedness and reliability, both things MB was known for until fairly recently.

Part of what MB buyers paid high prices for, until the company's more recent "Let's make a model for everyone" corporate philosophy emerged, was that ruggedness and reliability. You didn't buy a Benz (esp. not a W123 diesel or a W115 4-cyl. sedan) just to impress the neighbors. You bought it for longevity as well.

I recall only about 10-12 years ago, MB's TV spots usually concentrated on that aspect. Now it's all about the bling and the low lease prices. . . .

 

[Win]

I last shopped this class in 2004 when I wanted to buy a new car for my wife, and at that time nothing really came close to Jaguar. The aluminum structure and bonded body construction of the Jaguar XJ is the state of the art for automobiles. Since 2004, this technology has also been used in the new XK and I think the Astons were migrated to it before Aston was sold.

Audi makes an aluminum body car, but its construction technique is conventional. The BMW 7 series are nice cars, but really had no outstanding technology other than I Drive which was just absolutely awful - at least it was then, maybe they have improved on it since.

A Maserati Quattroporte could be had for about $100K back then, and they are beautiful cars, but I had no prior experience with the marque, so I passed, but I sometimes regret doing so.

All of these cars at the upper end of each manufacturer's line are outstanding drives, so it mostly just boils down to personal preference of what you want to drive.

About half of the marques you mentioned, I personally would not consider to be premium cars.

 

[rshaw125]

I thought jaguar was now way up there on the quality. While VW was bringing up the rear??!!

 

[rjundi]

My one additional comment on VW is that they are all over the map on "reliability". My friends with the Golf/GTI have very few issues and not significant with the VW Passat. However with the popular Jetta it seems to be a nightmare. The New Beetle also seems to be a nightmare.

I know the Golf/GTI are produced in Brazil or Europe while the Jetta/Beetle in Mexico.

 

[LouDawg]

Quote:

---

About half of the marques you mentioned, I personally would not consider to be premium cars.

---

Win, thanks for your thoughts. Interesting observations about the body construction of the Jaguar XJ...I wasn't aware of that.

As for the last quote, I think most lower- and middle-class folks do consider those brands as premium (except perhaps VW, but it's German so I threw it in the mix). Not the ultra high-end stuff like some, but certainly more upscale than the average automobile.