Ethnicity DNA testing

[JHZR2]

Over the last number of years I've read a lot of history related to places in Europe that we have family data on. We have really good info back three centuries of so, and limited going back another four. That's pretty decent, but still, lots changed in that time.

I was reading about certain gene markers associated with certain ethnic and other subgroups from around the world. The one I was reading about specifically tonight was related I the Vikings (not sure I have any of that).

Anyway, has anyone tried these DNA mapping businesses that identify specific markers to certain ethnic groups and subgroups? Was the info interesting? Useful? Probably worth asking is how "pure" is your blood so to speak, with respect to many generational mixing with people from all over? I assume this May effect the results, but not sure...

Thanks!

 

[Lead Shoes]

It's safe to say a country built on immigration will have almost no pure blood. Those sites are just make money off what people WANT to find not what they will find.

 

[Bandito440]

Does Blackstone do this?

 

[joaks]

I think it would be interesting but I am not sure about useful. The assay is straightforward so I do not think you need to be picky about who does it unless some companies provide more information. Some companies will give you health information rather than ancestry. THAT is useful.

I did get a mutt assayed once haha. Again, intesting. Not useful.

Oh, the more dilute a lineage is, the harder to detect it is USUALLY.

Get tested and let us know how it goes. The dog too.

 

[DC44]

I've been curious on the subject for the last couple of years and finally pulled the trigger on ordering a test since the price has went down to $99 for the major companies.I ordered a kit from 23&me for the ethnic dna test and also health trait service.

I'm black so I'm not sure if I'll get much outside of sub-Saharan for most of my genetic ethnic markers, since the data base is not large for black people concerning specific areas and ethnic groups.

What I'm curious about is the possible 'Indian' mixture on my mom's side of the family. Most black people claim to have 'Indian' or Native American in their family but studies show that most don't. It's usually 'European' in the family line. In my case, I have a dark skin tone, while my mom is somewhat lighter, and my grandmother is significantly lighter, and my great grandmother from appearance could have be taken as being mixed race in the visual sense.

The claim is that my great-great grandmother was half Indian, Cherokee to be exact. From the picture of her, she was clearly mixed with something and her hair was down her back in old age. This is not typical of person who's dna is mostly African in orgin. Personally, I'm somewhat skeptical of this and so far my research has given weight to my skepticism. The ethnic genetic test will prove me right or wrong and set the record of my great-great grandmother native American heritage being a family tale or not.

1st red flag: The claim of my great-great grandmother being half Cherokee does not match up with the geographic location of where the Cherokee tribes resided. She was born deep into Mississippi. The Cherokee territory was located in east Tennessee and went into the northern part of the USA. This is not even close to where she was born. The two tribes that resided in Mississippi where the Chickasaw an Choctaw Indians. The area where she was born was Choctaw territory. Also around the time she was born in 1911, Mississippi had a population of less than 1% Native American. If she is really half Native American shouldn't the correct tribe have been stated. Also with native Americans making up less than 1% of Mississippi's population in 1910(18,000 out of 1.8 million) what are the odds of this statistical happing? This would be highly unlikely and native americans in that area would more than likely have mixed with white people rather than black.

2nd red flag: There is no record of my great grandmothers parents or one that I can find so far. It's harder to trace back women thru the census records due to their surname changing when the got married. I have no idea what her maiden name was. Her parents are not mention on her obituary. From what I know this is a common practice to mention the parents on the obituary. Even though it is claimed that my great-great grandmother was half Cherokee, my grandma also stated that it was said that her mother was white. Also she mentioned that her mom stated that she had 'white' in her. The lack of identity seems plausible and would make sense, since something like that would be very taboo/dangerous for the time period. I did note that the census record noted my great-great grandmother as being black. But she's been dead for over 10 years and the rest of her siblings are dead so all I can rely on is second hand stories.

So right now, I'm on a cold trail with my great-great grandmother. When I get my DNA results it may be able point me a direction or give some answers outside of my current theories or confirm them. I plan I doing some more research to try to find something but more than likely it will be tedious and this is the first time I've done this research.

In my case my DNA should come back with at least a 3% or more native American or European ancestry based on my great-great grandmother being half something. I'm looking forward to it especially if it's European. It would be nice to see which sub-group that ancestry would be. Hopefully I have distant relatives that have took a dna test thru 23&me and may show up as a distant relative which may help me resolve who my great-great grandmothers parent's, specifically the mom, may be. Highly unlikely, but you never know.

In my case, and probably most black americans, we don't much about our family history outside of our great grandparents and ethnic dna research of late has sparked my interest in researching my family tree. Also I find it interesting that a large number of people of European descent can trace their family back a few hundred years in some cases. On the other hand most black americans can only tell you that they came from slaves but couldn't trace it back. I was recently able to trace back a part of my family tree thru great grandmothers paternal side to a male relative, born in 1835, and his wife (1848) that where more than likely slaves in Georgia (birthplace on census) and ended up in Mississippi after slavery or where sold their before slavery ended. Their last name pops up a lot on Kentucky and Arkansas records and their is even a family tree online with this surname but they are of European descent. Maybe if I get good enough at researching, I can figure out who the possible slave owners where. But I'm satisfied enough for now.



Now I'm in the waiting mode. My DNA sample was sent of around 3 weeks ago but has hasn't been marked a received yet and I'm trying to be patient. I do like the fact that you can also get an health assessment on your dna with 23&me. This has since been curtailed by the FDA as of now but I bought my kit 2 days before this went into effect so I'm safe. Also, I like that you can build your family tree with an account.

I enjoy history and different cultures. I think the diversity of America is one of the things people don't truly realize an appreciate. I enjoy not living in a homogenous society and appreciate that the US is a melting pot of people. I normal don't post on topics that are race related and this is my first time identifying my race online. But, I think the field of dna mapping and all of the things that can be derived from your dna is amazing and I would like to contribute to genetic research in whichever I can. I also think ethnic dna research is important. It gives some since of identity and for those who may not know, validates family history, or debunks it. It's pretty cool to know where your ancestors may have originated from or why certain odd features may seem to pop up in the family and etc.

For me It will be cool to know for personal satisfaction what I'm mixed with even if it's not dominate. I will still be seen and identified as a black person but I'll know a little more about my 'colorful' past.

 

[eljefino]

^ Cool story. I hope they can filter that 3%... and get the order of magnitude close to right. Eg not 1/2, and not .05%.

Wife's grandmother was into (old fashioned) geneology, but only traced back to "favorable" people, until she wiggled her way into the Mayflower Society. If she bumped into a criminal or whatever she stopper pursuing that fork.

 

[refaller]

I wonder how specific the DNA testing can get as far as location. I can trace my ancestry fairly far back and have relatives that have. In reality, we are all far more related than I think we realize. I am not even sure what people mean by "pure" blood. I find it far more interesting to find old pictures. My great- great grandfather has a picture of him at Cornell that I recently saw. He had a huge goatee like me! I told my mom I know where I get it from now.

ref

 

[eljefino]

Looking at pictures from the 1870s or so (when film was good enough that they could take a picture in under second and have people in focus) people were more angular in their facial features than they are now. Seems if there's a strong genetic "look" it's been diluted since. Or maybe we got softer.

My Grandpa moved from West Virginia to Ohio in 1920ish and the kids at school made fun of his accent, from a whole state away. Modern travel has shaken our interpersonal connections, and our DNA.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Brenden
It's safe to say a country built on immigration will have almost no pure blood. Those sites are just make money off what people WANT to find not what they will find.


You're assuming you know something about the immigration history of my family. Only the last generation on one side and my generation on the other did any "melting", and given how paternal lineages pass along, it would be interesting. Given the duration of history we know, it may not be helpful, but if it provides insight at the 700-1000 year mark, it would be.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: refaller
In reality, we are all far more related than I think we realize. I am not even sure what people mean by "pure" blood.


You're right, something like 99.9% of the human genome is consistent in everyone. What I meant by pure is family/local ethnic ancestry which remained fairly constant, local, and really only reproduced with those with the same ethnic ancestry/DNA haplotypes over the last many hundreds of years, such that anything seen in the DNA was due to migration from the 700-1000 year or longer point. That's where my interest lies currently, not in dilution with other haplotypes that may have occurred since say 700 years ago, where I have a good idea of the history.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: DC44


I enjoy history and different cultures. I think the diversity of America is one of the things people don't truly realize an appreciate. I enjoy not living in a homogenous society and appreciate that the US is a melting pot of people. I normal don't post on topics that are race related and this is my first time identifying my race online. But, I think the field of dna mapping and all of the things that can be derived from your dna is amazing and I would like to contribute to genetic research in whichever I can. I also think ethnic dna research is important. It gives some since of identity and for those who may not know, validates family history, or debunks it. It's pretty cool to know where your ancestors may have originated from or why certain odd features may seem to pop up in the family and etc.

For me It will be cool to know for personal satisfaction what I'm mixed with even if it's not dominate. I will still be seen and identified as a black person but I'll know a little more about my 'colorful' past.


Thanks for sharing. Yes, to me it's just an interest in reading history and how ancient groups migrated over time and where specifically folks fall in.

Wrt African history, I found the following article interesting as it appears that subgroups within the African populations and elsewhere can be identified.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/17..._n_2698112.html

Wrt "Black America", I found the following from the article very interesting:

Quote:


Harvard University professor Henry Louis Gates Jr., a genealogy enthusiast, recently compared Ancestry.com's DNA test to other genomic companies to better understand what percentage of African ancestry lies in the African American population as a whole. Here's what his comparison revealed:

* According to Ancestry.com, the average African American is 65 percent sub-Saharan African, 29 percent European and 2 percent Native American.
* According to 23andme.com, the average African American is 75 percent sub-Saharan African, 22 percent European and only 0.6 percent Native American.

* According to Family Tree DNA.com, the average African American is 72.95 percent sub-Saharan African, 22.83 percent European and 1.7 percent Native American.

* According to National Geographic's Genographic Project, the average African American is 80 percent sub-Saharan African, 19 percent European and 1 percent Native American.



Good luck, please keep us posted at least on your satisfaction, as well as any interesting findings if you care to put them on here.

 

[Blaze]

Originally Posted By: DC44
I've been curious on the subject for the last couple of years and finally pulled the trigger on ordering a test since the price has went down to $99 for the major companies.I ordered a kit from 23&me for the ethnic dna test and also health trait service.

I'm black so I'm not sure if I'll get much outside of sub-Saharan for most of my genetic ethnic markers, since the data base is not large for black people concerning specific areas and ethnic groups.

What I'm curious about is the possible 'Indian' mixture on my mom's side of the family. Most black people claim to have 'Indian' or Native American in their family but studies show that most don't. It's usually 'European' in the family line. In my case, I have a dark skin tone, while my mom is somewhat lighter, and my grandmother is significantly lighter, and my great grandmother from appearance could have be taken as being mixed race in the visual sense.

The claim is that my great-great grandmother was half Indian, Cherokee to be exact. From the picture of her, she was clearly mixed with something and her hair was down her back in old age. This is not typical of person who's dna is mostly African in orgin. Personally, I'm somewhat skeptical of this and so far my research has given weight to my skepticism. The ethnic genetic test will prove me right or wrong and set the record of my great-great grandmother native American heritage being a family tale or not.

1st red flag: The claim of my great-great grandmother being half Cherokee does not match up with the geographic location of where the Cherokee tribes resided. She was born deep into Mississippi. The Cherokee territory was located in east Tennessee and went into the northern part of the USA. This is not even close to where she was born. The two tribes that resided in Mississippi where the Chickasaw an Choctaw Indians. The area where she was born was Choctaw territory. Also around the time she was born in 1911, Mississippi had a population of less than 1% Native American. If she is really half Native American shouldn't the correct tribe have been stated. Also with native Americans making up less than 1% of Mississippi's population in 1910(18,000 out of 1.8 million) what are the odds of this statistical happing? This would be highly unlikely and native americans in that area would more than likely have mixed with white people rather than black.

2nd red flag: There is no record of my great grandmothers parents or one that I can find so far. It's harder to trace back women thru the census records due to their surname changing when the got married. I have no idea what her maiden name was. Her parents are not mention on her obituary. From what I know this is a common practice to mention the parents on the obituary. Even though it is claimed that my great-great grandmother was half Cherokee, my grandma also stated that it was said that her mother was white. Also she mentioned that her mom stated that she had 'white' in her. The lack of identity seems plausible and would make sense, since something like that would be very taboo/dangerous for the time period. I did note that the census record noted my great-great grandmother as being black. But she's been dead for over 10 years and the rest of her siblings are dead so all I can rely on is second hand stories.

So right now, I'm on a cold trail with my great-great grandmother. When I get my DNA results it may be able point me a direction or give some answers outside of my current theories or confirm them. I plan I doing some more research to try to find something but more than likely it will be tedious and this is the first time I've done this research.

In my case my DNA should come back with at least a 3% or more native American or European ancestry based on my great-great grandmother being half something. I'm looking forward to it especially if it's European. It would be nice to see which sub-group that ancestry would be. Hopefully I have distant relatives that have took a dna test thru 23&me and may show up as a distant relative which may help me resolve who my great-great grandmothers parent's, specifically the mom, may be. Highly unlikely, but you never know.

In my case, and probably most black americans, we don't much about our family history outside of our great grandparents and ethnic dna research of late has sparked my interest in researching my family tree. Also I find it interesting that a large number of people of European descent can trace their family back a few hundred years in some cases. On the other hand most black americans can only tell you that they came from slaves but couldn't trace it back. I was recently able to trace back a part of my family tree thru great grandmothers paternal side to a male relative, born in 1835, and his wife (1848) that where more than likely slaves in Georgia (birthplace on census) and ended up in Mississippi after slavery or where sold their before slavery ended. Their last name pops up a lot on Kentucky and Arkansas records and their is even a family tree online with this surname but they are of European descent. Maybe if I get good enough at researching, I can figure out who the possible slave owners where. But I'm satisfied enough for now.



Now I'm in the waiting mode. My DNA sample was sent of around 3 weeks ago but has hasn't been marked a received yet and I'm trying to be patient. I do like the fact that you can also get an health assessment on your dna with 23&me. This has since been curtailed by the FDA as of now but I bought my kit 2 days before this went into effect so I'm safe. Also, I like that you can build your family tree with an account.

I enjoy history and different cultures. I think the diversity of America is one of the things people don't truly realize an appreciate. I enjoy not living in a homogenous society and appreciate that the US is a melting pot of people. I normal don't post on topics that are race related and this is my first time identifying my race online. But, I think the field of dna mapping and all of the things that can be derived from your dna is amazing and I would like to contribute to genetic research in whichever I can. I also think ethnic dna research is important. It gives some since of identity and for those who may not know, validates family history, or debunks it. It's pretty cool to know where your ancestors may have originated from or why certain odd features may seem to pop up in the family and etc.

For me It will be cool to know for personal satisfaction what I'm mixed with even if it's not dominate. I will still be seen and identified as a black person but I'll know a little more about my 'colorful' past.


I'm part Cherokee and it came up as Asian or East Asian on my DNA test.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Blaze
I'm part Cherokee and it came up as Asian or East Asian on my DNA test.



Ive combined some interesting stuff here for convenience. Citation is all from Wiki.

Haplogroups in Europe:

From the general wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genealogical_DNA_test

Amerindian Haplogroups:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_history_of_indigenous_peoples_of_the_Americas

Q:

R:

C(P39/M217):

Not as much info on African groups, but it is discussed on the wiki I linked in the European part above.

 

[Papa Bear]

Originally Posted By: Bandito440
Does Blackstone do this?

 

[PandaBear]

It would be fun to know if they have a bigger database. My family came from a port city in South Eastern China across from Taiwan, and people from that city dominate the Chinese ethnic group across the entire Southern and Eastern Asia, and bring some of the mixed genes back to that city. I'd like to know if I have some Vietnamese, Japanese, Pacific Islander, Indonesian in me.

But still, that doesn't change who I am today and who my family is.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear


But still, that doesn't change who I am today and who my family is.


Absolutely. Its more of an interesting exercise when reading history of what groups conquered other groups, where people migrated, etc. Even in the "old world", there were places where people were "pioneers" and settled.

 

[DC44]

As promised, here are my ancestral DNA results from 23&me. Overall I fall into the average DNA ancestry mixture of about 80/20 african/other for Black Americans. It also proved and disproved what I thought about the indian ancestry being in the family and left more questions. The most interesting thing was the southeast asian mixture. Native American also comes of as Asian also but southeast Asia is a pretty distinctive area and pretty monogamous population. Very intriguing. Also since my paternal haplogroup is not a widespread group among the african paternal haplogroups I was able to to get a good estimate within 2-3 countries were my ancestors more than likely originated from during the slave trade.

I'm listing the graphs from the most optimistic to the least optimistic. The second shot is the standard ancestry % report. The standard one what I'm referencing since it errs somewhat on the side of caution.

Speculative/optimistic ancestry composition.



Here is the standard ancestry estimate. The southeastern asian trace is a surprise. High enough percentage that it's not noise.




Here's the conservative estimate. The European ancestry is a significant by any estimate. Still a slight trace of asian DNA.



Y chromosome haplogroups worldwide. This a partial map. I put a yellow star around my paternal haplogroup. Here is the link if anyone is interested. Here's the link if anyone is interested in the different current defined male ancestral haplogroups. World Haplogroups

 

[Pablo]

Fascinating.

DC44, it's possible that your great-great grandmother could have been part (1/4 or 1/2) Asian.

 

[97tbird]

where do you order this type of test?
Very interesting, I must say.

 

[DC44]

Pablo, I wonder if she could have be partially asian myself. Me being at a .7% southeastern admixture level,calculating the math, would put her at 1/4 asian with one of her parents being 1/2 asian. The migratory pattern does not seem to fit though. I would not think that many asian people would have been in Mississippi around the late 1800's and early 1900's unless she is really not from Mississippi. I will have to do more research on this component of the analysis.

97tbird, the company is called 23&me, which they also offered a health interpretation along with the test but now the just give you raw data due to the FDA telling the to stop offering it. Seems to be big healthcare strings in the background lobbying for that ruling due to the affordability of the test. That's another tinfoil topic though.

Also another feature that is pretty cool is the ancestry relative finder. I'm related to about 700 people in the 23&me data base, mostly distant. One thing I did find out was that my grandmother's 1/2 brothers and sister more than likely to the test but I only could identify one by name.They are my closest relative matches. I'm very curious about this since the are in their late 60's to early 70's at this point. Maybe they're trying to solve some mysteries or get some understanding. A few people outside of them and my closest relative match is of European descent.They're are estimated to be a 3rd to 5th cousin. Pretty interesting, and I've contacted them which the site lets you do if they don't set there profile to private. They've been pretty helpful but its still a longshot because it seems that more mysteries are created but it cool at the same time.

23&me Website