LOL, yes it is.
Ester/PAO mix cleans engines!
- Thread starter TallPaul
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It seems like people like to make this complicated with their own brews.
It has been said many times before that Ester base stocks will clean. The problem is that in cleaning the engine you are useing up the oil long before the OCI is complete. You also have the problem of how long it will take to clean up an engine this way. Then you have to realize that PAO and PAO+GII,GIII do little to know cleaning. This is why only oils like Redline,Synergen,Fuchs Titan, a few of the Motul oil etc.... clean at all because these oils have higher then normal ester content.
Rember an oil can lubricate well or it can clean but it has a tough time trying to do both. You are effectively wasteing your money on the oil if it is used up too soon in the OCI. Their are much more cost effective ways to clean an engine.
If you compare the cost of wasteing oils like Redline,Fuchs Titan,Motul etc..... to useing things like Auto-RX or Lube Control and a cheaper OTC oil either dino or synthetic you can see what I am saying. Then once your engine is clean go over to an oil with a high ester content to keep it functionaly clean for the rest of it's life cycle!!
Rember an oil can lubricate well or it can clean but it has a tough time trying to do both. You are effectively wasteing your money on the oil if it is used up too soon in the OCI. Their are much more cost effective ways to clean an engine.
If you compare the cost of wasteing oils like Redline,Fuchs Titan,Motul etc..... to useing things like Auto-RX or Lube Control and a cheaper OTC oil either dino or synthetic you can see what I am saying. Then once your engine is clean go over to an oil with a high ester content to keep it functionaly clean for the rest of it's life cycle!!
How will you both use up the 4-5 quarts oil quicker and not clean as well? If it's not cleaning well, why would it be dirty?
I think most of us agree that the latest M1 formulas are a high percentage PAO, and that there's also Boron in the VOA of these oils. IIRC, Boron usually indicates some esters. So M1 is evilness in a bottle? My money is on this: mixing is ok if you're willing to experiment, as many of us are, but unless you're the engineer who designed both formulas, then you can't know what you'll end up with. Not saying that's bad, just that it's unknown.
Dave
Dave
"I strong feel its best to stick with 1 brand of synthetic oil."
One of the biggest advantages is that you can compare UOAs over time and get a reading on wear and developing issues.
When you change oils all the time every UOA is a new world.
The other problem that can show up is high oil consumption. Switching from one brand or one formula to another can - for reasons that are not 100% clear - increase oil consumption temporarily.
Once your engine "seats" on a given formula, you shouldn't have that problem.
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One of the biggest advantages is that you can compare UOAs over time and get a reading on wear and developing issues.
When you change oils all the time every UOA is a new world.
The other problem that can show up is high oil consumption. Switching from one brand or one formula to another can - for reasons that are not 100% clear - increase oil consumption temporarily.
Once your engine "seats" on a given formula, you shouldn't have that problem.
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Most people here, I'd bet, don't do UOAs and... Most people don't stick with one brand, especially on BITOG where this month it's M1 ep, next month it's GC, after that it's Havoline, and so on and on and on. SO establishing trends is pointless. I UOA from 1 oil one time is pointless as well.
While I can see one oil being more prone to burning off than another in a given engine, I can't see any validity to oil seating in a particular engine.
While I can see one oil being more prone to burning off than another in a given engine, I can't see any validity to oil seating in a particular engine.
"So, what happens when you change brands of oil. Don't you leave a significant volume of the previous oil in your sump when you drain? Esters and PAOs are mixed all the time."
No, you're all confused on how the world works. Mixing oil is evil, everyone knows that, so not mixing oil is good. When you change your oil, and don't descend into the evil pit of mixing, the oil change fairy magically removes all former traces of the other oil.
Isn't science wonderful :^)
No, you're all confused on how the world works. Mixing oil is evil, everyone knows that, so not mixing oil is good. When you change your oil, and don't descend into the evil pit of mixing, the oil change fairy magically removes all former traces of the other oil.
Isn't science wonderful :^)
Posted by bkrell:
For the second quote, it may appear pointless but over time those of us in the know can help teach th newbies the proper way to preform and use UOAs, such as using and testing the same brand of oil for a few OCIs before changing to another brand of oil.
Bill
I have read discussions on this forum about the subject of oils clashing when changing from one type of oil to another in the UOAs area.
For the second quote, it may appear pointless but over time those of us in the know can help teach th newbies the proper way to preform and use UOAs, such as using and testing the same brand of oil for a few OCIs before changing to another brand of oil.
Bill
I've read discussions about the turbonator but that doesn't mean it works.
And if there is great instruction that goes on in the UOA section, it doesn't seem to trickle out here into the other forums.
j/k
And if there is great instruction that goes on in the UOA section, it doesn't seem to trickle out here into the other forums.
I disagree. If the one UOA from one point in time shows a problem (say antifreeze contamination), then its point is more relevant than trended UOAs showing no problems.
But if an ester oil is being used or some other oil that has a cleaning effect, one must realize that if will affect the UOA results. In this case, trending should show that. I have heard regarding Redline (ester based) that the first UOA is usually not very good. Apparently it is getting a lot of wear metals from previous OCIs that hid in the deposits and so those previous OCIs may have under represented the wear situation.
No, I absolutely agree in that case of coolant contamination. But yes, as you see, there are many t hings that can affect 1 solitary UOA.
So what happens if I really try to screw things up and use 1 quart of Redline mixed w/ a conventional HDEO????
So what happens if I really try to screw things up and use 1 quart of Redline mixed w/ a conventional HDEO????
"I can't see any validity to oil seating in a particular engine."
It's just the way it works. The term "seating" is commonly used, but it is a fact that for reason or reasons unknown switching from "A" to "B" can cause a period of increased oil consumption.
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It's just the way it works. The term "seating" is commonly used, but it is a fact that for reason or reasons unknown switching from "A" to "B" can cause a period of increased oil consumption.
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Eh, maybe I'm nutty. I guess I've just been fortunate to never have a car that consumed oil.
As for going to M1 EP what were you coming from? Surely not regular M1.
As for going to M1 EP what were you coming from? Surely not regular M1.
I hink most or many synths have a combo of them. Redline and Motul for sure have a lot. I've also heard that the new Penzoil Platinum does.
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