Ester-based oils? Interesting tech - READ!

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Originally Posted By: TDIMeister
OK, presentation, not paper. Whatevs.


Point is, the main body of study is just beginning. But really thanks for posting the link. It really looks like it will be comprehensive and great. You can already start to see the complexity - never such a simple decisions as this oil will be better than that. Cracks me up always - just seeing the silly conclusions here - stuff like "Redline = Esters, it's the best", when Redline contains 10-20% and some formulations 30-40% PAO.
 
Very interesting. I've never seen research on this before so I think they are breaking new ground. I would not have guessed that PAO has the highest cetane number of the set: mineral, alkylated naphthalene, vegetable oil, and the esters they tested. That must mean that flashpoint and cetane number are NOT related such that as one increases, the other does too. I wonder if oil's cetane number affects oil consumption. Oddly, I've fairly often heard of higher oil consumption when typical synthetics are used vs. mineral oils.

Someone here who can monitor timing and knock should do some testing like this. Doing it indoors on a dyno is highly preferred for consistency of conditions.
 
Originally Posted By: TDIMeister
The paper is out.

Comments? Discussion?


Thanks for sharing. Nice presentation.
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Cracks me up always - just seeing the silly conclusions here - stuff like "Redline = Esters, it's the best", when Redline contains 10-20% and some formulations 30-40% PAO.


I also get a laugh when I look at the 4-Ball Wear Test that Amsoil shows on it's website.

I always wondered if Amsoil has a Video of this test.

According to the 4-Ball Wear Test, Amsoil is better than Redline.
 
Originally Posted By: Bayman
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Cracks me up always - just seeing the silly conclusions here - stuff like "Redline = Esters, it's the best", when Redline contains 10-20% and some formulations 30-40% PAO.


I also get a laugh when I look at the 4-Ball Wear Test that Amsoil shows on it's website.

I always wondered if Amsoil has a Video of this test.

According to the 4-Ball Wear Test, Amsoil is better than Redline.


crackmeup2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: buster
Originally Posted By: Bayman
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Cracks me up always - just seeing the silly conclusions here - stuff like "Redline = Esters, it's the best", when Redline contains 10-20% and some formulations 30-40% PAO.


I also get a laugh when I look at the 4-Ball Wear Test that Amsoil shows on it's website.

I always wondered if Amsoil has a Video of this test.

According to the 4-Ball Wear Test, Amsoil is better than Redline.


crackmeup2.gif



crackmeup2.gif
thumbsup2.gif
Gary Allan once said, run a test until you get the results you want, or use a test your product excels at, then use that to sell it. I can see before the "papers" were out the defense was planning a strategy, and offense has their attack strategy in place. That's if either side didn't like what the "papers" said. I'm with offense on this one. LOL
 
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Originally Posted By: boxcartommie22
x2 buster....really scientic info...lol


Thanks Buster, I like how they have the EASTERN REGIONAL SALES MANAGER for Amsoil doing the Test.

They are picking on Mobil 1, doesn't Amsoil buy BASE STOCKS from Mobil, or shall I say Exxon-Mobil.

This test does not mean anything, wonder how used Amsoil Motor Oil would do in this test. I have a hunch that if an INDEPENDENT LAB did this same test that the outcome would be different.
 
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I think Amsoil's numbers are trustworthy. I think they make very good oils. There is much more to an oil than just base oils as you know.
 
Originally Posted By: buster
I think Amsoil's numbers are trustworthy. I think they make very good oils. There is much more to an oil than just base oils as you know.


I was on the Royal Purple Website and they had a Video like the Amsoil one and of course Royal Purple Motor Oil came out on top.
 
lol yeah I don't pay much attention to those tests. That doesn't disqualify them in my book from being a good oil though, but it is tacky marketing.
 
Originally Posted By: Bayman
What would be a good test for Motor Oil's.


There are many tests. TEOST, SEQ IIIG, IVA etc.
 
i agree with you all...what confirmed it for me is when i worked at the mile hi nationals and saw and spoke with engineers they mostly used red line ,lubeatech in there dragsters and own vehicles because of all the tests they did found red line was the best for protection and increased hp ,nitro along with motul and some torco,kendal,amalie....not saying amsoil is a bad oil by any means but there are alot better!! and most of all my use in all my vehicles...
 
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Originally Posted By: Bayman
Originally Posted By: boxcartommie22
x2 buster....really scientic info...lol


Thanks Buster, I like how they have the EASTERN REGIONAL SALES MANAGER for Amsoil doing the Test.

They are picking on Mobil 1, doesn't Amsoil buy BASE STOCKS from Mobil, or shall I say Exxon-Mobil.

This test does not mean anything, wonder how used Amsoil Motor Oil would do in this test. I have a hunch that if an INDEPENDENT LAB did this same test that the outcome would be different.


The video was not an attack on Mobil1.

It was a direct response to Royal Purple's video.

Amsoil was making fun of the test, that is the point. Anyone home, guys?

33.gif
 
Originally Posted By: JAG
I would not have guessed that PAO has the highest cetane number of the set: mineral, alkylated naphthalene, vegetable oil, and the esters they tested. That must mean that flashpoint and cetane number are NOT related such that as one increases, the other does too. I wonder if oil's cetane number affects oil consumption. Oddly, I've fairly often heard of higher oil consumption when typical synthetics are used vs. mineral oils.


It does make total sense that PAO has a high CN. PAO is basically an alkane with a double bond (alkene) at the first C=C bond and from there C-C chains with some (many or few) side branches. It depends on the PAO we are talking about. Depending on the side branching - most are very chemically (solvent resistant), most have good cold flow, and most are very oxidatively stable. However, without side branching, the lighter PAO's will behave very much as a diesel fuel does - ignite under compression - and do it quickly. So to extrapolate and say from this study, RAW material PA0 X has a high CN, therefore XYZ formulated PAO motor oil must have a high CN or to assume CN is related to, say flashpoint or consumption would be incorrect.
 
Originally Posted By: Bayman
Originally Posted By: buster
I think Amsoil's numbers are trustworthy. I think they make very good oils. There is much more to an oil than just base oils as you know.


I was on the Royal Purple Website and they had a Video like the Amsoil one and of course Royal Purple Motor Oil came out on top.


Pick a test you pass with a high score and use it. Why do you think Amsoil, RP, and others hand pick tests? No company is going to use a test they flunk, or do average on.
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
It does make total sense that PAO has a high CN. PAO is basically an alkane with a double bond (alkene) at the first C=C bond and from there C-C chains with some (many or few) side branches. It depends on the PAO we are talking about. Depending on the side branching - most are very chemically (solvent resistant), most have good cold flow, and most are very oxidatively stable. However, without side branching, the lighter PAO's will behave very much as a diesel fuel does - ignite under compression - and do it quickly. So to extrapolate and say from this study, RAW material PA0 X has a high CN, therefore XYZ formulated PAO motor oil must have a high CN or to assume CN is related to, say flashpoint or consumption would be incorrect.

Thanks Pablo. Is it true that esters with less side branching have a higher CN than similar molecular weight esters with more side branching?
 
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