EPA - Gestapo Powers
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Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: stephen9666
How is this thread not a violation of the forum's no politics rule?
I thought the same thing. Maybe bias for the OP?
One of our members presented a news article with a link for discussion as well and asked a question:
Are we being duped into War again?
At the time of posting, I felt that this article was along the same lines of discussion as the above referenced thread.
Originally Posted By: stephen9666
How is this thread not a violation of the forum's no politics rule?
I thought the same thing. Maybe bias for the OP?
One of our members presented a news article with a link for discussion as well and asked a question:
Are we being duped into War again?
At the time of posting, I felt that this article was along the same lines of discussion as the above referenced thread.
Yeah. Its police brutality. Kooksters mining gold (notorious for its enironmental hazards) with drug and prostitution in the area are not a hazard. Notice how the article says that State troopers deny the reports of drug running in the area, but the only person quoted is Lisa Murkowsky? Who are you going to believe? a cop or a US Senator? Here's a video of the police showing the proper deference those who spend time on the internet demand:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_y-gLm9Hrw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_y-gLm9Hrw
I have no facts in this case.
However, the use of overwhelming force in minor affairs is becoming quite common. Get used to it and plan accordingly. My suggestion is to avoid those situations whenever possible, by any means possible. Just walking away is often enough.
However, the use of overwhelming force in minor affairs is becoming quite common. Get used to it and plan accordingly. My suggestion is to avoid those situations whenever possible, by any means possible. Just walking away is often enough.
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: rshaw125
As if we need another reason to cut Washington's spending by a large amount. The EPA is long past due for a 50% budget cut.
Should be about twice that big a cut!
And IMO you are both far too generous. The agency is riddled with waste and blows money out like flatulence!
Originally Posted By: rshaw125
As if we need another reason to cut Washington's spending by a large amount. The EPA is long past due for a 50% budget cut.
Should be about twice that big a cut!
And IMO you are both far too generous. The agency is riddled with waste and blows money out like flatulence!
Yeah let's pick on the EPA as the root of all wasteful federal spending.
Lets conveniently ignore facts as we do in so many of these populist rants and never come close to educating each other on the realities and agreeing on real solutions.
Lets conveniently ignore facts as we do in so many of these populist rants and never come close to educating each other on the realities and agreeing on real solutions.
Of course not. The whole militarization in the US is ridiculous.
The problem is that there are so many anti govt nut jobs out there with unlimited access to firearms, anybody connected with government has the right to be fearful for their safety. That's why there are domestic drones.
Al Qaida didn't do this to us. We did.
The problem is that there are so many anti govt nut jobs out there with unlimited access to firearms, anybody connected with government has the right to be fearful for their safety. That's why there are domestic drones.
Al Qaida didn't do this to us. We did.
Dissarmed Oz were happy to introduce new paramilitary uniforms without those drivers...happy to close down a highway for 3 days, and hold 55,000 people up for 10-15 minutes to make 3 drug arrests, and nab 10 DUIs and a couple of unroadwrthy vehicles...
Papers please.
My last interaction was when my car was vandalised, and I was threatened with an unroadworthy ticket.
It's part of the plan. Yes, we did it to ourselves, but as per the agenda, we are (en masse) asking for increased controls, just like was predicted that we would.
Papers please.
My last interaction was when my car was vandalised, and I was threatened with an unroadworthy ticket.
It's part of the plan. Yes, we did it to ourselves, but as per the agenda, we are (en masse) asking for increased controls, just like was predicted that we would.
Originally Posted By: TrevorS
Of course not. The whole militarization in the US is ridiculous.
The problem is that there are so many anti govt nut jobs out there with unlimited access to firearms, anybody connected with government has the right to be fearful for their safety. That's why there are domestic drones.
Al Qaida didn't do this to us. We did.
I am sure were you to have a reasonable cross section of Americans you would find that about one tenth of one percent are actually "anti govt nut jobs", maybe even less. That is just another media creation, glad you've been drinking deeply. The leftist war on guns is completely unconstitutional and knows no limits thanks to the senseless glorification of gun violence by the media.
I thank God every day that our Founding Fathers knew about the dangers of Government as a whole and established simple rules to protect us.
Of course not. The whole militarization in the US is ridiculous.
The problem is that there are so many anti govt nut jobs out there with unlimited access to firearms, anybody connected with government has the right to be fearful for their safety. That's why there are domestic drones.
Al Qaida didn't do this to us. We did.
I am sure were you to have a reasonable cross section of Americans you would find that about one tenth of one percent are actually "anti govt nut jobs", maybe even less. That is just another media creation, glad you've been drinking deeply. The leftist war on guns is completely unconstitutional and knows no limits thanks to the senseless glorification of gun violence by the media.
I thank God every day that our Founding Fathers knew about the dangers of Government as a whole and established simple rules to protect us.
I was visited by the ATF or is it the BATFE over a paper work error. 4 vehicles, 9 armed to the teeth agents all for a paper work problem, no guns or explosives involved.
Overkill at its finest and a real chance of me getting killed. The only saving grace was the fact a local sheriff came with them and was civil and spoke to me like a citizen rather than a "perp".
Can you say overkill and extreme aggression when a civil question and answer solved the problem.
Smoky
Overkill at its finest and a real chance of me getting killed. The only saving grace was the fact a local sheriff came with them and was civil and spoke to me like a citizen rather than a "perp".
Can you say overkill and extreme aggression when a civil question and answer solved the problem.
Smoky
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: TrevorS
Of course not. The whole militarization in the US is ridiculous.
The problem is that there are so many anti govt nut jobs out there with unlimited access to firearms, anybody connected with government has the right to be fearful for their safety. That's why there are domestic drones.
Al Qaida didn't do this to us. We did.
I am sure were you to have a reasonable cross section of Americans you would find that about one tenth of one percent are actually "anti govt nut jobs", maybe even less. That is just another media creation, glad you've been drinking deeply. The leftist war on guns is completely unconstitutional and knows no limits thanks to the senseless glorification of gun violence by the media.
I thank God every day that our Founding Fathers knew about the dangers of Government as a whole and established simple rules to protect us.
the "freedom" to protect yourselves results in the deaths of tens of thousands of Americans every year, in reality you experience the equivalent of a Vietnam war every two years.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-19...es-by-2015.html
The larger tragedy is that the USA has exported the gun "freedom" to Mexico along with the USA's useless war on drugs resulting in tens of thousands of deaths in the border towns.
Unregulated sales AK and M16 platform rifles cross the border from the US to Mexico dealing death on a daily basis, many police departments are outgunned by the Cartels.
No thanks, while Canada has restrictive firearm laws our losses from guns is a mere percentage of yours, I would rather not have the freedom you enjoy.
Originally Posted By: TrevorS
Of course not. The whole militarization in the US is ridiculous.
The problem is that there are so many anti govt nut jobs out there with unlimited access to firearms, anybody connected with government has the right to be fearful for their safety. That's why there are domestic drones.
Al Qaida didn't do this to us. We did.
I am sure were you to have a reasonable cross section of Americans you would find that about one tenth of one percent are actually "anti govt nut jobs", maybe even less. That is just another media creation, glad you've been drinking deeply. The leftist war on guns is completely unconstitutional and knows no limits thanks to the senseless glorification of gun violence by the media.
I thank God every day that our Founding Fathers knew about the dangers of Government as a whole and established simple rules to protect us.
the "freedom" to protect yourselves results in the deaths of tens of thousands of Americans every year, in reality you experience the equivalent of a Vietnam war every two years.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-19...es-by-2015.html
The larger tragedy is that the USA has exported the gun "freedom" to Mexico along with the USA's useless war on drugs resulting in tens of thousands of deaths in the border towns.
Unregulated sales AK and M16 platform rifles cross the border from the US to Mexico dealing death on a daily basis, many police departments are outgunned by the Cartels.
No thanks, while Canada has restrictive firearm laws our losses from guns is a mere percentage of yours, I would rather not have the freedom you enjoy.
Originally Posted By: 2004tdigls
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: TrevorS
Of course not. The whole militarization in the US is ridiculous.
The problem is that there are so many anti govt nut jobs out there with unlimited access to firearms, anybody connected with government has the right to be fearful for their safety. That's why there are domestic drones.
Al Qaida didn't do this to us. We did.
I am sure were you to have a reasonable cross section of Americans you would find that about one tenth of one percent are actually "anti govt nut jobs", maybe even less. That is just another media creation, glad you've been drinking deeply. The leftist war on guns is completely unconstitutional and knows no limits thanks to the senseless glorification of gun violence by the media.
I thank God every day that our Founding Fathers knew about the dangers of Government as a whole and established simple rules to protect us.
the "freedom" to protect yourselves results in the deaths of tens of thousands of Americans every year, in reality you experience the equivalent of a Vietnam war every two years.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-19...es-by-2015.html
The larger tragedy is that the USA has exported the gun "freedom" to Mexico along with the USA's useless war on drugs resulting in tens of thousands of deaths in the border towns.
Unregulated sales AK and M16 platform rifles cross the border from the US to Mexico dealing death on a daily basis, many police departments are outgunned by the Cartels.
No thanks, while Canada has restrictive firearm laws our losses from guns is a mere percentage of yours, I would rather not have the freedom you enjoy.
The vast majority of those deaths are of people who voluntarily lead a criminal lifestyle. Your low crime in Canada is mostly due to demographic factors.
Canada restricts immigration very rigorously, even to the point where Canadians want to bar entry of British Commonwealth people who are deemed too old, not of the "right" ethnic group, or not economically productive. Your southern neighbor does not do that.
No one is perfect.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: TrevorS
Of course not. The whole militarization in the US is ridiculous.
The problem is that there are so many anti govt nut jobs out there with unlimited access to firearms, anybody connected with government has the right to be fearful for their safety. That's why there are domestic drones.
Al Qaida didn't do this to us. We did.
I am sure were you to have a reasonable cross section of Americans you would find that about one tenth of one percent are actually "anti govt nut jobs", maybe even less. That is just another media creation, glad you've been drinking deeply. The leftist war on guns is completely unconstitutional and knows no limits thanks to the senseless glorification of gun violence by the media.
I thank God every day that our Founding Fathers knew about the dangers of Government as a whole and established simple rules to protect us.
the "freedom" to protect yourselves results in the deaths of tens of thousands of Americans every year, in reality you experience the equivalent of a Vietnam war every two years.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-19...es-by-2015.html
The larger tragedy is that the USA has exported the gun "freedom" to Mexico along with the USA's useless war on drugs resulting in tens of thousands of deaths in the border towns.
Unregulated sales AK and M16 platform rifles cross the border from the US to Mexico dealing death on a daily basis, many police departments are outgunned by the Cartels.
No thanks, while Canada has restrictive firearm laws our losses from guns is a mere percentage of yours, I would rather not have the freedom you enjoy.
The vast majority of those deaths are of people who voluntarily lead a criminal lifestyle. Your low crime in Canada is mostly due to demographic factors.
Canada restricts immigration very rigorously, even to the point where Canadians want to bar entry of British Commonwealth people who are deemed too old, not of the "right" ethnic group, or not economically productive. Your southern neighbor does not do that.
No one is perfect.
Originally Posted By: TrevorS
.....
The problem is that there are so many anti govt nut jobs out there with unlimited access to firearms, anybody connected with government has the right to be fearful for their safety. .....
"anti govt nut jobs" do not just spring up out of thin air, they are made. And the making of "anti govt nut jobs" out of ordinary people is a long process.
How many did they make the day they used a heavily armed swat team to sample mine water? How many have they made when citizens read about it?
It's called reaping what you sow.
.....
The problem is that there are so many anti govt nut jobs out there with unlimited access to firearms, anybody connected with government has the right to be fearful for their safety. .....
"anti govt nut jobs" do not just spring up out of thin air, they are made. And the making of "anti govt nut jobs" out of ordinary people is a long process.
How many did they make the day they used a heavily armed swat team to sample mine water? How many have they made when citizens read about it?
It's called reaping what you sow.
Originally Posted By: dishdude
This is scary - the police are practically bringing out the SWAT team to serve warrants on parking tickets. We really are turning into a police state and it's proof the terrorists won on 9/11 - they changed our way of life.
I would say it's been going on since McVeigh blew up the fed bldg in OKC.
I'm in and out of govt bldgs a lot and it was shortly after that tragedy that the feds really hunkered down, started putting fences and cameras around their buildings, came up with the crazy, paranoid, rules about no cameras or cameraphones in courthouses, no radios, etc., and just really began to treat joe public as an enemy.
This is scary - the police are practically bringing out the SWAT team to serve warrants on parking tickets. We really are turning into a police state and it's proof the terrorists won on 9/11 - they changed our way of life.
I would say it's been going on since McVeigh blew up the fed bldg in OKC.
I'm in and out of govt bldgs a lot and it was shortly after that tragedy that the feds really hunkered down, started putting fences and cameras around their buildings, came up with the crazy, paranoid, rules about no cameras or cameraphones in courthouses, no radios, etc., and just really began to treat joe public as an enemy.
I can kind of see why they bring 4-5 guys with guns, it is intimidating and they will have a much much smaller chance of a problem doing their inspection. Are a couple of guys going to try something when faced with poor odds?, not likely.
Send one pencil pusher 120 miles into the bush alone with their EPA hard hat on and probably some percentage of folks would tell them to get lost or threaten them, etc...
I guess the EPA is trying to have its employees exposed to as little risk as possible, but probably 2 or 3 guys would've done the job.
Send one pencil pusher 120 miles into the bush alone with their EPA hard hat on and probably some percentage of folks would tell them to get lost or threaten them, etc...
I guess the EPA is trying to have its employees exposed to as little risk as possible, but probably 2 or 3 guys would've done the job.
My wife does water quality monitoring and it is intimidating on her end. She is of course, unarmed.
Part of what she does, she's allowed on the property due to a consent decree that the landowner is sometimes unware of.
Sometimes, she wades in via a "naviagable waterway" and there legally. Or on a conservation easement. Again, unaware. I bet the miners have to sign something as part of their claim letting the gummint in.
Sometimes she's photographing private property in the line of her duties. This makes people bristle. Sometimes she photographs stuff that may or may not be pollution... to be judged later. Stuff like manure runoff or just plain erosion. I can see a landowner thinking, OMG, she's going to turn me in. (And it would be uncomfortable to run across, say, a MJ grow.) Even if it's just for research purposes or for something to compare to in ten years, or for something to go into an unread report, the landowner doesn't understand her motives. She'll tell 'em: Education is a big part of her job, but they either don't ask or ask in an aggressive fashion. They may have gotten a flyer in the mail saying someone would be by a month prior, etc.
Anyway, those EPA guys should dress in khakis and polos with temperature appropriate outerwear. Maybe give two of them sidearms "for bears".
Part of what she does, she's allowed on the property due to a consent decree that the landowner is sometimes unware of.
Sometimes, she wades in via a "naviagable waterway" and there legally. Or on a conservation easement. Again, unaware. I bet the miners have to sign something as part of their claim letting the gummint in.
Sometimes she's photographing private property in the line of her duties. This makes people bristle. Sometimes she photographs stuff that may or may not be pollution... to be judged later. Stuff like manure runoff or just plain erosion. I can see a landowner thinking, OMG, she's going to turn me in. (And it would be uncomfortable to run across, say, a MJ grow.) Even if it's just for research purposes or for something to compare to in ten years, or for something to go into an unread report, the landowner doesn't understand her motives. She'll tell 'em: Education is a big part of her job, but they either don't ask or ask in an aggressive fashion. They may have gotten a flyer in the mail saying someone would be by a month prior, etc.
Anyway, those EPA guys should dress in khakis and polos with temperature appropriate outerwear. Maybe give two of them sidearms "for bears".
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
The fact that they have to send a swat team of 8 to check mine water...
I don't think there's ANYTHING the EPA would have in their area of operations that would require a gun be worn by one of their employees.
It's the Us vs Them mentality. Problem is, Them is Us.
The fact that they have to send a swat team of 8 to check mine water...
I don't think there's ANYTHING the EPA would have in their area of operations that would require a gun be worn by one of their employees.
It's the Us vs Them mentality. Problem is, Them is Us.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
I am sure were you to have a reasonable cross section of Americans you would find that about one tenth of one percent are actually "anti govt nut jobs", maybe even less. That is just another media creation, glad you've been drinking deeply. The leftist war on guns is completely unconstitutional and knows no limits thanks to the senseless glorification of gun violence by the media.
I thank God every day that our Founding Fathers knew about the dangers of Government as a whole and established simple rules to protect us.
Why accuse me of drinking deeply? I was being facetious!
I guess you don't see any cultural issues at play here? Seems to me that everyone wants their freedom and rights without truly respecting others. Authority figures are still citizens. Why do they disrespect their fellow citizens so much? Labeling them as government is too convenient. Fact is that there is a cultural issue where everybody wants power and get it whichever way they want. Whether it is dressing it up as freedom or rights, gun rights, or joining some sort or law enforcement or unofficial border patrol. It's rampant self interest and "pursuit of happiness" at the cause of disrespect for others while turning a blind eye to a whole system that clearly does not operate as the founding fathers intended.
I am sure were you to have a reasonable cross section of Americans you would find that about one tenth of one percent are actually "anti govt nut jobs", maybe even less. That is just another media creation, glad you've been drinking deeply. The leftist war on guns is completely unconstitutional and knows no limits thanks to the senseless glorification of gun violence by the media.
I thank God every day that our Founding Fathers knew about the dangers of Government as a whole and established simple rules to protect us.
Why accuse me of drinking deeply? I was being facetious!
I guess you don't see any cultural issues at play here? Seems to me that everyone wants their freedom and rights without truly respecting others. Authority figures are still citizens. Why do they disrespect their fellow citizens so much? Labeling them as government is too convenient. Fact is that there is a cultural issue where everybody wants power and get it whichever way they want. Whether it is dressing it up as freedom or rights, gun rights, or joining some sort or law enforcement or unofficial border patrol. It's rampant self interest and "pursuit of happiness" at the cause of disrespect for others while turning a blind eye to a whole system that clearly does not operate as the founding fathers intended.
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