Engine wear by idling

[KevinsDMAX]

Originally Posted By: DrDusty86
THE 5.9 CTD is an over glorified POS. It likes water pumps every 60-80k, the timing covers crack aka killer dowl pin up through 02, 53 blocks, rear main seals, the VP 44 junk.

For the record, I had a 98.5 24V CTD

The Duramax is better overall.


I think every truck has their own issues...the first gen had problems with leaky injectors, which caused fuel in the oil, and because of the location of the injectors the cost are extremely high. The LLY has issues with the headgaskets and overheating while close to GVW. The LBZ worked most of these out, but there are few with headgaskets (early models classified as LLY, but had all internals of the LBZ) and some get cracked pistons if too much hp is applied.

What I'm trying to say is that there really isn't a perfect motor.

That's my two cents.

 

[SteveSRT8]

If left alone the Dmax is one of the highest rated engines by the folks that tow - RV people.

That's why I bought mine. I have a 15k pound fifth wheel camper that we like to haul around the country. Since we WORK the engine and left it stock we have no problems of any kind to report.

I think it's lightly loaded around towners with aftermarket tunes that have a lot of issues!

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: k1rod
Is the DMAX that very robust? I am not disparaging as I am the owner of one. But in the 13 years I spent in the US ARMY, all of our work trucks had Cummins in them. They were bullitproof. I always thought I sacrificed the Cummins for the better chassis and Allison in my Silverado. Could I have been wrong? Is the DMAX as good as the Cummins?


The Duramax is no Cummins, but then the Cummins is massive overkill for a pickup truck in most cases, too. Not only that, the addition of emission controls to the Cummins resulted in it having some problems of its own- frequently related to EGR. And of course opinions are strongly divided on 12-valve or 24-valve, 5.9 or 6.7, common-rail or not, yadda yadda yadda. You can peel the onion all sorts of ways and about the only absolutely clear things to me are 1) the early intercooled 5.9 Rams got the best efficiency and that's never been duplicated, and 2) the power has only gone up since then, so #1 makes sense. As of 2013, I'd say that Dodge (Cummins), Ford, and GM (Duramax) all pretty well have their ducks in a row. Ford went through heck and back with the "little" (6.0 and 6.4) Navistars and personally I wouldn't touch one of them- yes, I'm sure operator negligence played a part, and yes I know you can "bulletproof" them with modifications- but you NEVER had to do that with the Cummins 5.9 OR the 7.3 Navistar, for that matter. Their current (6.7) in-house Ford diesel so far seems pretty solid.

As for D-max issues, I've heard of short-lived (and expensive to replace) injectors in some years. And frankly that Allison transmission is Allison in name only- its no better than the other two at the moment and had quite a spate of its own problems for a while. But yeah, the D-max is a tough bugger. The mere fact that you hear LESS babble about it (one way or the other) than the other two on the interweb speaks for the fact that its pretty much just getting the job done.

 

[mobilaltima]

Def go with an 06-07 LBZ. Especially if you plan to modify it. The 5.9 isnt an "over glorified POS" as you say. killer dowel pin was only on 94-98 12 valves,53 blocks, were 98-99, and VP44s die from inadequate fuel supply/pressure.(airdog or fass solves it) While the dmax is a proven design, I wouldnt go and say its better than a Cummins. medium duty engine>light duty engine. They all have their weaknesses and strong points. I give my 06 common rail [censored], but i built it to take what i throw at it. 12 valves, 7.3 strokers, theyre all excellent engines, even 6.0s once theyre studded and you delete the EGR.

 

[dnewton3]

Time for a station break ...

Let's set aside this banter about who's engine is best or sucks, shall we?


As for the idle wear issue, there are problems that genearlly affect diesels, however, many of those issues are not prevelant in newer, common-rail engines. The "wet-stacking" complaint of very cold temps resulting in incomplete combustion and therefore soot loading, are not an issue with "newer" engines. It can be an issue with older, IDI mechanically injected engines. Today's DI, micro-controlled, common-rail engines see very little in regard to this problem of uber-cold idling. My experience has been that once the engine is warm enough, it stays there. And the Dmax does have a "high-idle" feature that warms the engine and tranny, if engaged in the programming.

The LBZ he intends to purchase is one of the best wearing diesel engines ever made. Period. I have over 600 UOAs from Dmax engines, and more than 10,000 UOAs total, many of which are diesels in all kinds of various forms (trucks, semis, tractors, gen-sets, water pumpts, etc ...). I have the data to back up my statements. If you haven't read my "normalcy" article, now would be the time to do so!

Let's not overthink this issue. If the pipeline company did a good job on maintenance and the OCIs, then there is every reason to think his potential purchase is in fine shape. The Dmax holds a nice oil pressure even at idle, and it really could not care less what brand/grade is in the crankcase as long as it's properly spec'd. It is the tribochemical boundary layer that is the greatest player in wear reduction; as long as that is in good shape, idling isn't an issue whatsoever, especially in a newer diesel engine.


I now return you to your regulary scheduled rhetoric ...

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Time for a station break ...

Let's set aside this banter about who's engine is best or sucks, shall we?


I love honest comparative engineering discussions. The rule is that the first person to use terms like "sucks" or "POS" loses the debate.

By the way, does the D-max engine management software include and equivalent of the Cummins "3-cylinder idle" to keep temperatures up or speed warm-up? I've also read that GE locomotive engines have been cutting cylinders at idle (and thus running the remaining cylinders at a higher power density) for improved emissions at idle for many years now. The unused cylinders switch every few minutes to keep all the holes equally warm.

 

[SteveSRT8]

All my engines suck. If they don't they won't run!

 

[Bambam]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
All my engines suck. If they don't they won't run!

 

[dnewton3]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Time for a station break ...

Let's set aside this banter about who's engine is best or sucks, shall we?


I love honest comparative engineering discussions. The rule is that the first person to use terms like "sucks" or "POS" loses the debate.

By the way, does the D-max engine management software include and equivalent of the Cummins "3-cylinder idle" to keep temperatures up or speed warm-up? I've also read that GE locomotive engines have been cutting cylinders at idle (and thus running the remaining cylinders at a higher power density) for improved emissions at idle for many years now. The unused cylinders switch every few minutes to keep all the holes equally warm.


I, too, being a statistical process quality control engineer, love detailed engineering discussions based upon merit. We don't always get that here, unfortunately. Nothing wrong with opinions, but when they are not backed up with data, they lack credibility. Nothing wrong with making a claim, when one can provide reliable information to support it (excluding sales hype and marketing mythology, etc).

As for the Dmax ...
The Dmax has a "high idle" feature that can be turned on/off selectively by driver choice, so that the engine and tranny work together (actually they work against each other, technically) to place a load on both. That warms the engine via fuel loading and the tranny via fluid resistance loading in the tc. It allows the engine oil to first stabilize for 15-30 seconds after a very cold start, then it bumps up the idle to about 1200 rpm or so. Stays there until is sees a predetermined temp in the coolant and/or tranny fluid (not sure what those setpoints are specifically).

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Time for a station break ...

Let's set aside this banter about who's engine is best or sucks, shall we?


I love honest comparative engineering discussions. The rule is that the first person to use terms like "sucks" or "POS" loses the debate.

By the way, does the D-max engine management software include and equivalent of the Cummins "3-cylinder idle" to keep temperatures up or speed warm-up? I've also read that GE locomotive engines have been cutting cylinders at idle (and thus running the remaining cylinders at a higher power density) for improved emissions at idle for many years now. The unused cylinders switch every few minutes to keep all the holes equally warm.


I, too, being a statistical process quality control engineer, love detailed engineering discussions based upon merit. We don't always get that here, unfortunately. Nothing wrong with opinions, but when they are not backed up with data, they lack credibility. Nothing wrong with making a claim, when one can provide reliable information to support it (excluding sales hype and marketing mythology, etc).

As for the Dmax ...
The Dmax has a "high idle" feature that can be turned on/off selectively by driver choice, so that the engine and tranny work together (actually they work against each other, technically) to place a load on both. That warms the engine via fuel loading and the tranny via fluid resistance loading in the tc. It allows the engine oil to first stabilize for 15-30 seconds after a very cold start, then it bumps up the idle to about 1200 rpm or so. Stays there until is sees a predetermined temp in the coolant and/or tranny fluid (not sure what those setpoints are specifically).


We get rational debate more OFTEN here than other boards, but people are people. ;-) And if you have been badly burned in the wallet, you do carry a grudge I suppose.

I guess the high idle pretty much does the same thing. The half-cylinders for idle method just lets each cylinder being used work harder, but the downside is that the other cylinders aren't being warmed until its "their turn" to be the active cylinders.

 

[KevinsDMAX]

Thanks for all the advise. One thing to mention is that the Duramax high idle doesn't do much in the interior of AK, but I guess when it's -40 F and colder there isn't much you can do to get them warmed up.

I have been in my buddies 6.7 Powerstroke and he has the rapid heater, and that thing works!

 

[m37charlie]

Originally Posted By: KevinsDMAX
Thanks for all the advise. One thing to mention is that the Duramax high idle doesn't do much in the interior of AK, but I guess when it's -40 F and colder there isn't much you can do to get them warmed up.



Get a Webasto 9kw heater to preheat engine and cab and to rapidly warm up and keep warm.
Factory option on my Unimog with 6.4L diesel, works very well.

Charlie

 

[jimmy87]

Originally Posted By: k1rod
Is the DMAX that very robust? I am not disparaging as I am the owner of one. But in the 13 years I spent in the US ARMY, all of our work trucks had Cummins in them. They were bullitproof. I always thought I sacrificed the Cummins for the better chassis and Allison in my Silverado. Could I have been wrong? Is the DMAX as good as the Cummins?


I by no means am questioning your service, THANK YOU! You must have spent alot of time down range, the only trucks that I can think of that have cummins are the mraps down range, rg 33/31 and caimans. There aren't very many mraps here in the states, they are all down range, most of the vehicles I deal with have CAT engines in them you know the legacy vehicles with the exception of the humvees, those have GM 6.5s and 6.2s, heck even the strykers have CAT engines. Since I've been back i haven't seen a cummins in any military vehicle, but I do realize that many do come equipped with cummins engines.

 

[bbslider001]

Originally Posted By: DrDusty86
THE 5.9 CTD is an over glorified POS. It likes water pumps every 60-80k, the timing covers crack aka killer dowl pin up through 02, 53 blocks, rear main seals, the VP 44 junk.

For the record, I had a 98.5 24V CTD

The Duramax is better overall.


Absolute [censored]. Sounds you had some bad luck with a year that was not so great. There are many, many, many that run well over 500k including the three I have witnessed and the two I have actually owned. Try not using a blanket statement with 1/3 truth. All of the bg 3 diesels have had their issues. I have also owned a Dmax and idled it excessively, as was the nature of my job. Keep the oil clean, the fuel filter changed, and problems will be minimal if any at all.

To say a Cummins is junk is just uneducated. The Dmax had many of its problems with injectors, OH, EGR, DPFs, etc...but they are still very good motors.

 

[bbslider001]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
If left alone the Dmax is one of the highest rated engines by the folks that tow - RV people.

That's why I bought mine. I have a 15k pound fifth wheel camper that we like to haul around the country. Since we WORK the engine and left it stock we have no problems of any kind to report.

I think it's lightly loaded around towners with aftermarket tunes that have a lot of issues!


This is so true and should be heeded by those that tune the heck out of their engines and expect longevity.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: cowhorse01
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
If left alone the Dmax is one of the highest rated engines by the folks that tow - RV people.

That's why I bought mine. I have a 15k pound fifth wheel camper that we like to haul around the country. Since we WORK the engine and left it stock we have no problems of any kind to report.

I think it's lightly loaded around towners with aftermarket tunes that have a lot of issues!


This is so true and should be heeded by those that tune the heck out of their engines and expect longevity.


See, a guy who tows knows! Seriously though, no one sweats it like the factory for longevity. Pumping one up is big fun and lord knows the gains are huge. But you always pay somehow for all that extra scoot!