Engine rebuild?

[sifan]

I bought a '95 Toyota Tercel with 278K miles on the original engine for $550. It comes with 4-speed manual and no AC/PS. It is a light and no frill car. I like the simplicity of this car (less things to break and light weight for better gas mileage). It is on a 2nd clutch installed about 1 and half years. The first clutch lasted 200K miles according to the seller (also the original owner). The engine/transmission still runs very strong and gives 40+ MPG combining city and highway driving which were the main reasons of my purchase. It cost me about $1000 in repair (fixing the exhaust leak, replacing the windshield, installing the driver's side mirror, and replacing the two front rotors) to have it pass the strict Maryland safty inspection plus $600 in timing belt/water pump replacement. So far, I have invested about $2200 on this car.

Now here is the bad part of the engine. The check engine light is on, and it is leaking oil from the valve cover and near the timing belt area. I do not know if the main seal is leaking or not. Currently I do not see any oil drops on the pavement. The mechanic, who replaced the timing belt/water pump while the car was on inspection, did not replace the gaskets for the oil pump and other parts of engine near the timing belt. He probably thought that this was such a high mileage car and tried to save me money by not changing those gaskets.

I brought the car to another mechanic for a 2nd opinion. He said the gaskets should be replaced along with the timing belt. Now it would cost me the labor to replace the gaskets and redo the timing belt. He also suggested to keep driving without spending any more money on the engine for now since there was no oil drops on the pavement. Besides, replacing the rear main seal required removing the entire engine. When I asked him how much rebuilding the engine would cost, he said about $2000. In his opinion, the Tercel engine was an oil burner, and not worth of rebuilding.

My questions are:

1) Should I spend $2000 in rebuilding the engine now to offset the cost of fixing the oil leak (replacing all the seals and gaskets) and of finding the cause of check engine light on?

2) Should I have the oil leak fixed now and keep driving until the need for engine overhaul? The engine is still very strong and gives good gas mileage.

3) Since this engine has such a high mileage, it is surely not a lemon from the start. I wonder if the engine will still give the same longivity after being rebuilt?

4) What is involved in the engine reguild process? What engine parts get to be replaced? What separate a good engine rebuild from a bad one?

5) Can anyone suggest a good engine rebuilder in the Washington, D.C. metro area?

I really want to keep this car.

Thanks,

Simon

 

[chet2]

just keep adding oil or buy a crate rebuilt engine...i saw a cavalier engine for only 1200$...the tercel must have a similar price, with instalation plus s and h...i wouldnt spend 2k on that engine

 

[ac_tc]

I´d follow the second mecanic.
try a sealsweller.
Why is your check engine light on?
This little gizmo may force you into a rebuild. ie high HC

 

[Steelhead]

any oil burning. i wouldn't worry unless more than a qt. per 500 miles

change the PCV valve and make sure the tube is not plugged
check the crankcase blowby pressure

switch to Valvoline Maxlife or another HM oil
add a bottle of this each oil change
http://www.gunk.com/prodinfo/M1616.pdf

try a thicker oil 10w40 HM

may get you another 100k>200k miles on the engine

take it to an auto parts store and have codes read for the CEL

got some extra maintenance cash, buy a couple bottles of Auto-RX and clean the engine internals, especially good for the ring packs

 

[MrCritical]

Do not put another 2 grand in this car, under any circumstances.

Do find the cause of the CEL.

 

[addyguy]

Don't put another $2k into this car....you're $550 'great car' will become a $5k toilet to flush money down....worst case scenario, put cheap 20W-50 oil into it, and see how it goes.

My dad had a 1989 Tercel w/ the same 1.5/4-speed combo. Without an overdrive gear, that engine just SCREAMS at highway speeds...no tach on his, but I'd guess over 3500rpm @60mph. At those engine speeds, it'll shear a cheap 20W-50 down to a 30-weight in no time, so FE/drivability won't 'suffer' from heavier oil...

 

[mechtech2]

Valve cover gaskets are pretty cheap. Or you could clean yours and the valve cover really well [dry] and use a premium silicone RTV sealer lightly smeared on it. This is an easy job for anyone.

Your cam seals may be leaking, as well as the front crank seal.
A bit involved for an amateur. $20 for seals, and several hundred for labor. Might as well do the timing belt while it is out.

 

[onion]

An engine rebuild likely won't take care of the check engine light. That's something that'll have to be diagnosed/repaired separately in any case.

If the engine runs reasonably well and doesn't use much oil, then you'll benefit little from an engine rebuild. An engine rebuild generally involves replacing/reconditioning the basic mechanical parts of the engine (pistons, rings, bearings, valves, gaskets, etc.), but will NOT include any work on the ignition system, fuel system, electronics, etc. (i.e., an engine rebuild won't fix your check engine light).

IMO, even if the engine DID need to be rebuilt (and it doesn't sound like that's the case), you'd be nuts to put that kind of money into a car with that many years and miles on it.

If that was my own car, I'd have the codes checked, and see what'll be involved in fixing them. I'd catch up on any maintenance. And that's all. You're talking about a 13-year-old car with 278k miles. If the engine runs ok and you're not leaving puddles on the ground... you can't ask for much more.

I agree with previous posters that some brand of stopleak in the oil might be worth a try. And the valve cover gasket is a cheap fix- might be worthwhile if it's a bad leak.

And considering the amount of mileage/wear on that engine, I'd probably be running a heavier oil. I'm partial to 15w40 (I run it in my '01 Lumina with 177k miles), but 10w40 or 20w50 would work fine, too.

 

[artificialist]

An engine that has poor ring seal will generate less manifold vacuum. That causes the MAP sensor reading will then be higher than normal at idle, and that will cause the PCM to turn on the check engine light. In other cases, the low manifold vacuum reading will cause extra fuel to be injected, so the PCM will detect rich running from the O2S. If the fuel trim value is very high, the Check Engine Light will be turned on.

 

[eljefino]

As a 95 it'll be OBD-I so your CEL is probably something simple and yet serious. I'd get on a toyota forum and research how to check that out, it could be something simple like hooking up an analog voltmeter to a couple pins somewhere.

If you're leaking oil from a cam seal or something behind the timing belt it was ludicrously incompetent of the mechanic who did the belt to ignore that leak. Oil leaking from the timing belt cover (it is not oil tight) is likely getting on the belt, shortening its life. How much, who knows?

I would keep driving this car, changing the oil occasionally, and that's it. Watch the junkyards for a 150k mile engine for $400 and have them put it in if you ever need another one.

 

[sifan]

Thanks to all.

I took my Tercel to a third mechanic this morning. It turned out the CEL is EGR related. I also have him to replace all the seals and O-rings around the timing belt areas and the valve cover plus steam cleaning the engine. The oil burning smell is becoming unbearable inside the car. The rear main bearing seal is leaking slightly and no need to concern for now

He did mention that due to high mileage the piston rings might be worn such that the gas would leak down into the crank case and create excess pressure to push the oil through the seals even with brand new seals. Therefore, even with new seals the oil leak can not be 100% preventable but at least manageable. He also suggested to keep adding oil (which is cheap) and keep driving until it dies.

By the way Toyota put ODBII into Tercel starting from 1995.

 

[MrCritical]

He sounds like he's on the ball, especially about the oil leaks.

 

[PT1]

That engine is screaming for Maxlife and a new PCV valve

 

[sifan]

Got the car back last night. Almost all oil leak was taken care of (except the rear main bearing seal). Engine was steam cleaned. PCV valve was replaced. Throttle body and EGR tube were cleaned. CEL was not on. Oil was kind of dirty (which was changed 220 miles ago). I did not feel any change in engine performance. The mechanic told me not to worry about the gas leak down into the crank case because the engine was not worn out as he previously thought.

When I drove to work this morning, the CEL came on again without any noticeable degradation on engine performance. My original $550 car now worths $3300. I wish my retirement funds could appreciate this fast.

 

[Gary Allan]

It's probably still EGR related. Next time you have the clutch done ..the rear main is right there (assumed one piece).

The thing is a shell behind the engine bay. Your biggest worries are getting it crashed and totaled. You'll spend more in one year worth of payments for any car than you've put into this over your ownership.

Finding a "good beater" is a [censored] shoot.

 

[sifan]

No, this time it is O2 sensor and catalytic converter related. It looks like I will have to go through replacing all the emission related parts in order to stop the CEL from coming off. The previous owner did not upkeep the maintenance on the car. I brought the car back to the garage to have plugs/wires/fuel filter replaced besides an O2 sensor and a catalytic converter. My car just appreciates another $1500.

I hope my clutch will last another 200K miles, and same for the engine. By the time for the next clutch replacement it would be time to install a re-manufactured engine.

 

[Steelhead]

change the transmission oil and rear end lube
she's a keeper.
clutchs seldom last longer than 150k especially with intown driving on hills