Engine failure, what will I find?

Status
Not open for further replies.
155 PSI isn't "major engine damage" low compression.

It's a bit low, but the highest cylinders are only 175, so I wouldn't presume cylinder/piston damage just yet. 20 PSI is more variation than I would like to see, but it's only a bit outside of statistical variation that happens when measuring.

I think he needs to pull that head and see what's going on. With all that oil running through that cylinder, it could be a slight valve seal/seating problem as well.

I've got MB WIS running on a laptop at home. I'll see what MB considers to be failing compression numbers as well as how to replace the valve guide/seal and how to pull the head.
 
Last edited:
Sodium could be additive. It's the iron that worries me. But if it smokes a ton on start up and is using oil, it's leaking oil at rest. Given the smoking on start up, I think it's leaking out of valve guides while the engine is off. The iron could easily be a valve stem itself...
 
Originally Posted By: Astro14
155 PSI isn't "major engine damage" low compression.

It's a bit low, but the highest cylinders are only 175, so I wouldn't presume cylinder/piston damage just yet. 20 PSI is more variation than I would like to see, but it's only a bit outside of statistical variation that happens when measuring.



I would agree... IF these were all "dry" numbers. But the fact is, that cylinder is (very) wet and still lower than the others when they're dry.
 
Is the motor mechanically quiet? I would think there would be some engine noise associated with large cylinder/piston damage.
Thanks,
Andy
 
Originally Posted By: Astro14
That's a ton of oil on those intake valves. It's got to be pouring out of a valve guide to pool up there. It's not coming from the cylinder or it wouldn't be on the intake side of the valve. I think you've got a head problem: worn valve guide or valve seal.


+1 I think the lower compression on that cylinder may be from coked up and now stuck rings from continuously burning oil over a long period of time. If that's the case it can possibly be cleaned up with a solvent cleaner in the cylinder
If it was using 1L every 1500 it may well have been using it mostly on the one cylinder.

I strongly suspect a guide(s) came loose in the head or there is a crack in the head casting which IMO is far less likely as this is a very low stress area. Its going to be easy to see and check, dry the valve pockets and pour some oil over the valve spring area, if it runs into the pocket you have your answer.
Pop the heads (easier said than done on this one) and let a machine shop hot press oversize guides in.

Edit: There could be host of issues this is just a guess given that much oil is behind the valve, it may or may not have damage to the cylinder or piston/rings but IMO its best to try and find the root cause before ripping them apart.
 
Last edited:
Sorry for the delayed response all. I do not get email updates for some reason.

In response to all questions:

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
I would take up Mercedes on the premise that this engine was hand built by a highly skilled professionalno reason for this engine to crock out at less than 100k miles.


Good point, but I wont get anywhere with that. Completely agree

Originally Posted By: KGMtech
Check to see if one of the fuel injectors is leaking pressure.

Does the exhaust smell of unburnt fuel? do you smell gas in the oil?


All fuel injectors good, recently serviced. Oil doesnt smell of fuel. The exhaust scent is odd. Not quite a rich mixture, but doesn't smell oily either.

Originally Posted By: nicrfe1370
Alexander, in regards to the oil analysis report you showed us, which was from 3000 miles prior to this failure, iron was reading very high at 101. [If you haven't spent any time exploring the Used Oil Analysis section of this forum, you would learn a lot there.] The lab claimed that all numbers were within normal limits, but I don't believe that at all. Even with hard use and an extended oil change interval I would expect the number to be easily less than 30, and possibly less than 15. Aluminum was also what I would call notably elevated. In addition, I would say that the difference between the compression of the known bad cylinder and the best cylinders is a noteworthy difference. When the engine is torn down, I think you'll find that cylinder #1 is damaged, and probably all three rings are as well. In your original post, when you listed the cylinder numbers and their compressions, which cylinder numbers are in the same bank as #1? I think it might be possible that half of the motor is having a problem. I would definitely not drive the car or even run the motor until a reputable shop has given it their full diagnosis.

On the plus side, that picture of the intake ports you showed us is remarkable! It literally looks brand new, as though there were fewer than a thousand miles on the motor. How is this car able to keep the intakes so clean?


I complete agree with your comments on the UOA. Not quite sure why they thought they where ok. That oil was Mobil 1, which I read has a high iron content on UOA. Even so, would expect it to be around 20 ppm! The oil also had very low mileage on it (2000 odd). I stopped driving the car as soon as it started smoking. Cylinders 1,2,3,4 are on the same bank. All the plugs on that side of the bank look rich, but not oily apart from no1. 5678 are all golden and good looking.


Originally Posted By: Astro14
That's a ton of oil on those intake valves. It's got to be pouring out of a valve guide to pool up there. It's not coming from the cylinder or it wouldn't be on the intake side of the valve. I think you've got a head problem: worn valve guide or valve seal.



I agree, but I'm not convinced its coming from valve guides or seals. There is oil sitting on top of all the valves, but no 1 is the worst. All other valves at the time of the pic, where slightly open so hard to compare.


Originally Posted By: Astro14
No. 1 cylinder compression is off by a bit, but not broken piston terrible. I'm pretty certain that this blower has its own oil supply. Something like 750ml, so it's not the blower making the engine smoke or foul the plugs - it would have run dry by now.

http://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/368922-diy-supercharger-oil-refilling.html

The OP mentioned consumption, and I think that consumption is through a valve guide/seal.

I'll check WIS later, but I think you're going to have to pull the head to repair this...and when it's off, you'll be able to take a look at the cylinder walls.

Hopefully, they're in good shape. The rings might be a bit coked up from all that oil burning, and a piston soak might help bring number 1 back up.


It is a tough one, would be easier if no 1 was down on compression a lot as it would be straight forward. The head is going to come off, but I'm putting a spare engine in it at the moment, as the car is planned for a European road trip soon.

I will then get the engine torn down and see what we find. My mechanic is so busy, he is not interested in getting the engine torn down as it will be hanging around his shop for a long time.

Originally Posted By: threeputtpar
Saw this car on justrolledintotheshop yesterday. Good luck with whatever it ends up being.


Thanks, will post a follow up once the head is off
smile.gif


Originally Posted By: Silverado12
A valve
seal won't cause it to use that much oil.


Its used approximately 1 Liter with idling and revving for approximately 40 minutes combined time whilst I was doing diagnosis.

Originally Posted By: AndyB
Is the motor mechanically quiet? I would think there would be some engine noise associated with large cylinder/piston damage.
Thanks,
Andy


Completely silent as always.
 
Also, something to note. The car was not driven for 4 months, then had 100 miles put on it. The day after was when this started.
 
Update (at last)

Unfortunately, I am none the wiser.

It also appears somebody has been into this engine before, the head gaskets have evidence of silicone sealant visible from the outside, as does the rear main seal retainer. So much for full service history.

Firstly, in progress shot, took me ages to get to this point because I'm [censored]. :



Plenums off:



Rocker covers off:



First indication of where the fault is...

The dark side is very sludgy crusty. Its like a layer of deposits over everything.




Head off and I was expecting to find carnage:





Not great but not horrific







And the head itself:




Soooo, no massive hole in piston, no massive gouged liners, but still this:



Best bet is still an oil control ring I think.

New engine is going in soon, its from an SL 55 so sumps/oil pumps etc need to be swapped. Suspect I may run into an issue there, but best leave that to later.
 
Originally Posted By: DriveHard
Originally Posted By: Astro14
That's a ton of oil on those intake valves. It's got to be pouring out of a valve guide to pool up there. It's not coming from the cylinder or it wouldn't be on the intake side of the valve. I think you've got a head problem: worn valve guide or valve seal.


This would be my vote and first area to attack if it were my car.


+2
 
I'm not so sure. A sudden massive failure of the valve stem seals and on all 8 cylinders? (all of them have oil on them)
 
Those cylinders look pretty good of cross hatch. I wonder if the motor was dusted? I replaced a while back that suffered that fate and the bores looked similar. Also had tons of oil in the intake tract too.
 
it would suck to find a pcv issue after tearing it down.1 looks the worst but others look oily to me.
this engine seems to be sucking oil in from the intake side.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom