Eneos Sustina 0w50 -- VOA

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Originally Posted By: dparm
Yeah, this aggravates me because that means I watered a 3.85 down with the 2.7...giving me an HTHS right at 3.5. Also means the VI is around 185 in my blend. Had I know the specs were this far off, I'd have just put RL 0w40 or 300V 0w40 in.

I intend to pursue this with Eneos.


Heck, you could just have used M1 0w40........
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I've sent a few of the US lubrication managers at Eneos the following email, and gave them a copy of the Blackstone report.



Hi Sarah,

I recently purchased a case of Sustina 0w50 after reading the technical datasheet. I was curious to better understand the specific additives so I submitted an unused portion of my bottle for analysis to Blackstone Laboratories.

I was concerned when Blackstone returned a report showing that this oil was considerably lighter (approximately 10%) than the numbers given on the technical datasheet. I have attached the Blackstone report to this email. The oil came back as a 0w40, meaning that the kinematic viscosity and viscosity index specifications published are incorrect.

This has me concerned because I placed this oil into service under the impression that it was indeed a 0w50, not a 0w40.

Can you please explain why the datasheet does not match the actual oil found in the bottle? If necessary I can submit the bottle ID information.

Please feel free to reply to this email or call me directly at XXX-XXX-XXXX if you can speak to this any further. Thanks for your time, and I look forward to your reply.


Regards,
Dan Parmelee
 
Also, I informed the reseller I got it through and they told me this:


If it does in fact prove to be off, then we will drop the line completely and will recommend that customers stay away from this oil completely.
 
Eneos replied to my email very quickly and asked for lot/ID information from my bottle. We'll see where this goes, but I'm glad to see they responded so quickly.
 
dparm;

See my latest post in the "Sustina HTHSVs & TBNs" thread in the PCMO forum.

New info and contact person/number.

Maybe he can help quicker, as he seemed quite concerned about all of these discrepancies with the Sustina products.

But yes, IF this cannot be resolved, I will go to 300V, Millers Nanotech, or back to a Red Line mix in the summer, and forget all about this stuff, despite the PMA VIIs.
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^^^ That TBN is actually 1.2 higher than Dave at Red Line claims for their oils!
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I wonder just how good a blend of this, and the Sustina 0W-20 would be, considering that we have established that the 0W-20 DOES at least meet the stated specs (especially the VI, and HTHSV) claimed by Nippon Oil techs.??
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Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
dailydriver, I can't see any issues. It's no different than what you're running now with RL 0W-30 except RL 0W-40 simply contains more VIIs.


Yes, true, but I was inferring the MUCH higher VI which would result from that mix being even better yet, as long as the resultant HTHSV was applicable.
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BTW; to get the actual VI of a given blend, have you (and everyone else on here) been just adding the two together and dividing by two, or is there a formula to use (like a Widman's calculator used for the other blended specs)???
 
I don't know why folks that are concerned about the exact spec of an engine oil buy cheap non major brand oil. You often get what you pay for and because I am fussy about the oil quality I only use Liqui Moly, Castrol, Mobil or Shell oils, although if I was in the US I might look at Valvoline and a few of the other major brands.
 
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

BTW; to get the actual VI of a given blend, have you (and everyone else on here) been just adding the two together and dividing by two, or is there a formula to use (like a Widman's calculator used for the other blended specs)???

You're going to be pretty close just averaging the VIs.
But using a viscosity calcultor to determine the respective KV40 and KV100 values of the mix and then calculate the VI separately will give you the most accurate figure.
 
Originally Posted By: skyship
I don't know why folks that are concerned about the exact spec of an engine oil buy cheap non major brand oil.


I don't think that I would call the oils we are discussing exactly "cheap", at $11.00-~$20.00 USD/quart.
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Do you consider Millers Nanodrive Racing Oils, being NOT from a 'major brand', cheap at almost $25.00 USD/qt.??!!
 
Originally Posted By: skyship
I don't know why folks that are concerned about the exact spec of an engine oil buy cheap non major brand oil. You often get what you pay for and because I am fussy about the oil quality I only use Liqui Moly, Castrol, Mobil or Shell oils, although if I was in the US I might look at Valvoline and a few of the other major brands.

As dailydriver pointed out, Sustina is anything but cheap.
You may not be familiar with the brand but it is the top line of Nippon Oil, the largest oil company of Japan. Nippon Oil is an OEM supplier and produces some of the most technically advanced oils available.
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: skyship
I don't know why folks that are concerned about the exact spec of an engine oil buy cheap non major brand oil. You often get what you pay for and because I am fussy about the oil quality I only use Liqui Moly, Castrol, Mobil or Shell oils, although if I was in the US I might look at Valvoline and a few of the other major brands.

As dailydriver pointed out, Sustina is anything but cheap.
You may not be familiar with the brand but it is the top line of Nippon Oil, the largest oil company of Japan. Nippon Oil is an OEM supplier and produces some of the most technically advanced oils available.


What manufacturer certifications/approvals does this oil have? I don't see any mention of high performance certs and approvals on the website
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I mean quite frankly, I'm not overly impressed by an oil that VOA's as a completely different product than what is advertised and while this oil may be "one of the most technologically advanced oils available", carries no OEM certs or approvals, let alone those of the kind that warrant the use of this product in demanding high performance applications....

It's flash point is 228C, pour point is -45C, both of which don't seem all that impressive given that SM M1 0w40 is 236C/-54C and is certified out the wazoo and likely has a far lower NOACK.......
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Originally Posted By: dailydriver
That TBN is A LOT lower than the 11.2 quoted to me by Sarah Park from their tech dept.

I wonder who to believe??
(The calcium is decent, so maybe Blackstone? {is this who you used??} got it wrong?)

The moly is slightly higher than what I expected, and the boron is slightly lower than I was hoping for.
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But if it is as shear stable as we suspect, and with that high VI, it is still great stuff, and fully blendable with their 0W-20 to get a perfect weight, VERY high VI brew.
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With Blackstones comments on this as well as others in the past, a re-check is appropriate. "Thanks Dan for sending us this virgin sample, it appears to be servicable" (Paraphrased) he he...
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
What manufacturer certifications/approvals does this oil have? I don't see any mention of high performance certs and approvals on the website


True, but I don't think they're particularly interested in obtaining any European specifications. I doubt they meet the Ford specification, either. I wonder if they could get the GT-R specification? That's a small niche market, but it would be something, especially for a Japanese oil.
 
Originally Posted By: dparm
Eneos replied to my email very quickly and asked for lot/ID information from my bottle. We'll see where this goes, but I'm glad to see they responded so quickly.


What ever happen here
 
I believe Nippon Oil never got back to Dan.
I sent a copy of the VOA to the Canadian ENEOS importer whom I know and and they never got back to me either.

My conclusion is that this oil is really a 0W-40 with a VI of about 178. It's probably a bit heavier than M1 0W-40 but certainly not worth the premium price.
 
That's correct, they never got back to me. I sent several follow-ups, even CCing the managers, and didn't get a peep. I told the reseller this (AMS, who is an extremely reputable GT-R tuner...just Google them) -- they said they'd let all their sales guys know.

My car started complaining that it needed the 35k service, so I drained this at only 2300 miles on the clock. I plan to send it in for a UOA just for grins.
 
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