EGR delete?

[Falcon_LS]

I realize this is an illegal emissions modification in many places, but there's no such thing as emissions testing here and my tuner was suggesting an EGR delete to go with my custom tune on the Mercury - which also has a catalytic converter delete feature from the factory.

Apart from possibly keeping the intake cleaner, I'm just wondering what the potential "benefits" are. Can't decided whether to go with his recommendation or not. Thanks!

 

[SteveSRT8]

Removing EGR can increase gas mileage, throttle response, and add a very small amount of power. This is all very dependent on programming.

 

[Falcon_LS]

Thanks, Steve.

Would it still work as well if the EGR is disabled from the PCM and a block off plate is used?

 

[Falcon_LS]

Also, something that just came to mind. Considering we use high sulfur gas, would canceling the EGR (and the reduction of sulfuric emissions back into the engine) help with TBN retention?

 

[HerrStig]

Here we can't disable without getting a Check Engine Light. I've disabled the system for test purposes and found no change, BUT it is a green weenie device serving no useful porpose other than emission control. I am sure the ECU can adjust the fuel trim to deal with the LACK of exhaust being fed into the intake. (What a dumb thing to do)

 

[2004tdigls]

Originally Posted By: Falcon_LS
I realize this is an illegal emissions modification in many places, but there's no such thing as emissions testing here and my tuner was suggesting an EGR delete to go with my custom tune on the Mercury - which also has a catalytic converter delete feature from the factory.

Apart from possibly keeping the intake cleaner, I'm just wondering what the potential "benefits" are. Can't decided whether to go with his recommendation or not. Thanks!

from wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egr#EGR_in_spark-ignited_engines

 

[Smoky14]

EGR can reduce detonation at cruise speeds, by dropping cyl temps thus NOX. If it doesn't ping shouldn't hurt anything.

YMMV

 

[SteveSRT8]

Ludicrous assertions in the WIKI piece. I could attack that all day long on several points.

Just as noted above, it's a 'greenie weenie' add on that is not even used on many engines today.

You don't need a Phd to imagine what dumping exhaust into the intake can do for you!

 

[HerrStig]

There are places in the US where this stuff is not required. Florida has clean air as do some states in the upper midwest, so they applied for and received EXEMPTIONS from clean air act requirements. In those states the drill is to retain only that part of the injection system which is needed for proper mixture to provide good power and fuel economy. It will by MY pleasure to move to Florida and toss a few parts overboard. I am inclined to keep my vehicles in good tune, and will continue to do so.

 

[spackard]

My car throws a MIL if the exhaust passages clog up.
Specifically, one of two knock sensors start piping up. The MIL throws about 5 minutes after a cold start/drive off.

Now, if the engine's a'knockin' it's not just a 'greenie weenie' anymore, it's a device that's been accounted for in the PCM/ECU.

 

[Hootbro]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Ludicrous assertions in the WIKI piece. I could attack that all day long on several points.
..............


Any idiot can write and/or edit a WIKI article. I just wish people would stop referencing WIKI because it can be a pig in a poke when accurate info is needed.

 

[HerrStig]

"Wiki's" are useful but are contributed unpaid writers. Sometimes they have an axe to grind. It least the Wiki is a starting point for further search. To their credit, the Wiki folks do permit updates and corrections.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: spackard
My car throws a MIL if the exhaust passages clog up.
Specifically, one of two knock sensors start piping up. The MIL throws about 5 minutes after a cold start/drive off.

Now, if the engine's a'knockin' it's not just a 'greenie weenie' anymore, it's a device that's been accounted for in the PCM/ECU.


Are you being "done" by the extra restrictive CARB regulations? Ans others have mentioned, many modern engines get by WITHOUT exhaust gas recirculation. How do they do it? Better ECM control to begin with rather than cleaning up the mess after combustion. It's interesting that EGR LOWERS combustion temps, while newer engines are running, overall, at higher temps to improve efficiency.

 

[HerrStig]

There's an interesting post on a BMW bike site where a guy in Turkey (where they have NO emission control requirement for bikes) is fitting injection to an 80's Bing carbed aircooled BMW (an "airhead" for those who don't follow this). He has it running, but so far he needs a laptop to control it. Otherwise he uses off the shelf Bosch injection parts. It will be interesting to see what, if any performance gains will result. Just getting the Bings off would be an improvement in terms of PIMA mantainence issues. There are some seals "issues" with cornfed gas.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Actually, many engines can achieve 'fake egr' with valve timing.

The engine in my car is VERY old school, nuttin' fancy at all. No EGR. Simply because the cam is fairly radical for a factory motor, gets a bit of 'egr' simply due to overlap specs.

 

[mechtech2]

Since you are getting a tune, you can dump the EGR. It's a part throttle ignition timing thing. Addressed properly, you should benefit from it.

Early EGR systems puked exhaust into the intake at cruising/part throttle. This lowered peak temperatures, and reduced NOX. Most cars would run better at part throttle with them disconnected - but some would spark knock lightly when giving the gas moderately.
Modern systems are better - way better. But they can't be disconnected without an engine light going on.

 

[Falcon_LS]

Thanks very much for everyone's input, muchly appreciated.

I decided to go ahead with this, and am looking to buy an EGR block off plate and a cap to block the exhaust tube connecting to the EGR valve. I can't ditch the exhaust tube, so I'm just going to cover up the end that connects to the EGR.

For anyone familiar with the Ford 4.6, would these parts fit:

EGR block off plate

EGR header cap

Thanks!

 

[spasm3]

If you delete the egr, i might go 2 heat ranges cooler on the plugs. The egt will be a bit higher. If it spark rattles or knocks try cooler plugs.

 

[bdcardinal]

Originally Posted By: Falcon_LS
Thanks very much for everyone's input, muchly appreciated.

I decided to go ahead with this, and am looking to buy an EGR block off plate and a cap to block the exhaust tube connecting to the EGR valve. I can't ditch the exhaust tube, so I'm just going to cover up the end that connects to the EGR.

For anyone familiar with the Ford 4.6, would these parts fit:

EGR block off plate

EGR header cap

Thanks!

Those look like they should work. It looks like the cap will actually take the place of the 9D477 on the 5E212 pipe, BTW I am making sure you still know your basic numbers.

 

[Falcon_LS]

Originally Posted By: spasm3
If you delete the egr, i might go 2 heat ranges cooler on the plugs. The egt will be a bit higher. If it spark rattles or knocks try cooler plugs.


Thanks! I've got one range colder plugs on at the moment, which the tuner said would be sufficient. Usually two heat ranges colder is for forced induction, so I'll see if there's any knock/detonation/pinging before switching over.

Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Those look like they should work. It looks like the cap will actually take the place of the 9D477 on the 5E212 pipe, BTW I am making sure you still know your basic numbers.


I have a 9D477, but I don't have a 5E212 (which I had to look up by the way).