Ebay problem

[Jimmy9190]

This is a "what would you do" type post. I am trying to decide what is the best way to proceed. To make a long story a little longer:

I sold a car stereo amplifier on Ebay. I live in Florida, not far from Orlando, the buyer lives in coastal Georgia, not far from Savannah. When the auction ended he paid for the amp right away via Pay Pal on Sunday Dec. 1st. I mailed the amp the next day from the post office close to where I work. That night when I got home I sent the buyer an Ebay message with the USPS tracking number to let him know I had shipped it. I did not mark it shipped on Ebay, nor did I put the tracking number on Ebay. I tried but it was complicated and did not seem to work right so I just let the buyer know directly.

This past Sunday Dec. 8th the buyer sent me a message on Ebay saying he never received the amp, when did I ship it? I wrote back to tell him when I had shipped it, gave him the tracking number again and suggested he contact the post office or maybe it was delivered to a neighbor's house instead. He wrote back the next day saying the post office had delivered it, left it on his porch at 1:30pm on Dec. 4th. Buyer says no neighbors have seen the amp. Buyer believes the amp was stolen off of his front porch and now wants a refund.

I had $50.00 of insurance on the amp, however the local post office tells me that only covers the amp if the post office loses the package and it never gets delivered. Since the Georgia post office has documentation it was delivered, the insurance will not pay anything. I called Ebay, they scolded me for not marking the amp shipped and not putting the tracking number on the sale. I told them I gave the tracking number to the buyer twice and sent him an Ebay message it had been shipped. They said I have no recourse but they *may* assist the buyer with a refund if he files an "item never received" claim with Ebay. I don't know if that refund would come straight from Ebay or if Ebay would take it out of my Paypal account, with or without my authorization. Ebay also said in the same breath that it may be best for the buyer and I to work it out between ourselves.

What would you guys suggest I do here? The buyer paid right away and in good faith, I mailed the amp in good faith, the post office delivered it, maybe not in the best manner but it was delivered to the buyer's house. The buyer's payment is in my Paypal account, I have not transferred it to my bank yet. I do not think the buyer is lying, he and I both have 100% positive feedback scores, but he has a lot more transactions than I do. I doubt he would lie and run the chance of ruining his good Ebay reputation.

I sent him another message tonight asking if he has filed a police report or if he can file a homeowners' or renters' insurance claim for the theft. I have not heard back yet. I do not want either one of us to lose out here but I also want to do the right thing.

What say you, BITOG community? Should I keep his payment and tell him it's his loss or give him a refund and chalk it up to a bad Ebay experience? The sale was not that much money, $59.00 and some change, and that included $14.95 for shipping.

 

[bubbatime]

If you have proof of delivery, USUALLY you (as the seller) will win a PayPal/eBay dispute. Only problem is, if he opens a claim, PayPal will immediately withdraw the funds from your account and hold them hostage. If eBay eventually decides in your favor, you will get your money back in about 30 days or so. The buyer can still leave you negative feedback.

Most power sellers will just offer the refund in these cases to preserve their seller ratings.

It's totally up to you how you proceed. I have been in your shoes and I killed them with kindness and it usually worked out in my favor. You might explain to the buyer that eBay policy is to side with the seller when the item has a confirmed delivery via tracking number and that you are willing to offer a partial refund, say 25%-50% out of good faith.

 

[theKman]

Offer to split the difference? Sounds like you're both reasonable individuals, that may be a reasonable solution. (although I think when it really comes down to it you have no liability here)

 

[umungus1122]

You should always ask if the buyer would like to have signature for delivery of the package, or if they'd like it held at the PO. USPS, UPS, or Fed-Ex, this avoids this situation, I've found. If the buyer declines the service, it's noted, and if the package is then stolen, it falls squarely on the buyers shoulders.

 

[Barkleymut]

Personally I would tell Ebay the reason you use them is so that they DO THEIR JOB. You have a confirmation, you are covered. Period.

 

[daves87rs]

Tough to say..though I might agree with giving a little bit back...

 

[Bandito440]

In the future, print postage right from ebay so the tracking number is imported. You get a discount this way too and can have the mail carrier pick it up to save you a trip.

In this case, you should still be able to input the tracking number and mark it as shipped. If he wants a refund, let him file the complaint.

 

[demarpaint]

In the future do everything from the Ebay site, and get a signature upon delivery. I'd give the person his/her money back to preserve my 100% satisfied customer status, and learn from it. Unfortunately there isn't much else you can do, unless you don't care about selling on Ebay anymore. You might start off by offering a % back and see how the customer takes it, you can always work up to a full refund for there.

 

[Olas]

IMO, it depends if you're more concerned about what is morally correct or preserving your feedback rating.

Morally, you held up your end of the deal, you did what you said youu would do, you acted honestly and did nothing wrong so you shouldn't have to give him anything - realistically once the item is on his porch its his responsibility!

However, if you want to be sure that you keep a 100% satisfaction rating on Ebay you'll probably have to take the hit and lose the money. I dont know about the US but in the UK its quite common for Ebay buyers to wait until they recieve the goods, then file a complaint with PayPal to get a refund AFTER they have recieved the goods. The only way around this is to stipulate collection only, or signature on delivery only.

HTH

 

[xfactor9]

It's absurd for the buyer to ask for a refund. If your car gets stolen while parked in front of your house, can you ask the dealership to refund your money?

Asking him to file a police report is the right thing to do. If he negs you, you can respond with your side of the story.

Incidentally this is why I'd never sell an expensive item online.

 

[dernp]

First off, no refund. Package wss delivered. Secondly, like above posters say, always get a sig.

I'm not a big EBAY fan for this very reason.

 

[eljefino]

On the flipside of this my wife mail ordered something that was "delivered" to a snowbank, neighbor's house... we don't know.

We paid by credit card, the vendor had a tracking number. We contested it with the credit card people, got our money back.

Not sure if the charge-back bit the vendor, or if the CC people ate it. I suspect the former.

Sorry to say, this stuff usually bites the seller if it comes down to it. I'm particularly annoyed the USPS insurance doesn't cover this: it should be/ is a federal crime to steal unopened mail off a stoop.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: xfactor9
It's absurd for the buyer to ask for a refund. If your car gets stolen while parked in front of your house, can you ask the dealership to refund your money?

Asking him to file a police report is the right thing to do. If he negs you, you can respond with your side of the story.

Incidentally this is why I'd never sell an expensive item online.


Exactly. The item was shipped and delivered and the OP has proof. The buyer needs to file a claim with his HO's insurance and call the Police. Has NOTHING to do with the OP unless he drove there and stole it himself. The OP should not have to give the guy 1 red cent. If E-Bay or PayPal refund the guy's money the OP should cancel both accounts and take them to court. Just ridiculous.

 

[apwillard1986]

The transaction was complete. The buyer fulfilled his obligation by paying for the item. You fulfilled your obligation by shipping the item that he purchased. The USPS fulfilled theirs by delivering it. It would be no different if he went to a shopping center and made a purchase at Store A, placed it in his car while he went into Store B, and then returned to find someone had stolen the item out of his car. He could not return to Store A demanding a refund. By bidding he agreed to your shipping terms. The fact that you didn’t update the shipping status thru eBay is a minor technicality considering the other proof you have that you did indeed fulfill your obligation.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: xfactor9
It's absurd for the buyer to ask for a refund. If your car gets stolen while parked in front of your house, can you ask the dealership to refund your money?

Asking him to file a police report is the right thing to do. If he negs you, you can respond with your side of the story.

Incidentally this is why I'd never sell an expensive item online.


Exactly. The item was shipped and delivered and the OP has proof. The buyer needs to file a claim with his HO's insurance and call the Police. Has NOTHING to do with the OP unless he drove there and stole it himself. The OP should not have to give the guy 1 red cent. If E-Bay or PayPal refund the guy's money the OP should cancel both accounts and take them to court. Just ridiculous.


It is ridiculous, however if the buyer decides to trash Jimmy on EBay and destroy his rep there isn't much he can do about it. That's the reason myself and a few others suggested eating it. In reality if Jimmy doesn't care and/or can open an account under another name on continue to do business on Ebay, then let PayPal and Ebay sort it out and stand firm.

 

[Turk]

Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: xfactor9
It's absurd for the buyer to ask for a refund. If your car gets stolen while parked in front of your house, can you ask the dealership to refund your money?

Asking him to file a police report is the right thing to do. If he negs you, you can respond with your side of the story.

Incidentally this is why I'd never sell an expensive item online.


Exactly. The item was shipped and delivered and the OP has proof. The buyer needs to file a claim with his HO's insurance and call the Police. Has NOTHING to do with the OP unless he drove there and stole it himself. The OP should not have to give the guy 1 red cent. If E-Bay or PayPal refund the guy's money the OP should cancel both accounts and take them to court. Just ridiculous.


+3.

C'mon. Personal responsibility.

Or, isn't there any anymore???

Uh.

 

[Jimmy9190]

The for all your replies on this. I have not yet heard back from the buyer. Maybe he will file a police report or file his own insurance claim. I will leave the payment in my PayPal account for the time being. I want to wait and see what he does but I will probably have to give him a refund because ebay will probably refund him by taking the money out of my PayPal account anyway. I have one more item to sell on ebay and I will not be using eBay to sell anything else. I want to keep my good rating on ebay though because I may need to buy car parts myself on ebay some time in the future. I am glad this was not a high dollar sale but it will be a lesson learned. I will never know for sure whether the buyer is lying or ripping me off. Either way I get the short end of the stick..

 

[Turk]

Originally Posted By: Jimmy9190
The for all your replies on this. I have not yet heard back from the buyer. Maybe he will file a police report or file his own insurance claim. I will leave the payment in my PayPal account for the time being. I want to wait and see what he does but I will probably have to give him a refund because ebay will probably refund him by taking the money out of my PayPal account anyway. I have one more item to sell on ebay and I will not be using eBay to sell anything else. I want to keep my good rating on ebay though because I may need to buy car parts myself on ebay some time in the future. I am glad this was not a high dollar sale but it will be a lesson learned. I will never know for sure whether the buyer is lying or ripping me off. Either way I get the short end of the stick..



...... but it was "delivered" & there's "proof"!

 

[99Saturn]

I'd be curious to know if the buyer gets back to you since you said file a report and contact insurance. In my experience, when a buyer comes back with a complaint, asking them to do some work proves to the buyer it is not going to be easy for them to rip you off and they may just drop it. I had a situation where I sold something like new, and the buyer told me the packaging was damaged. They sent me a pretty scathing email the first time. I rolled the dice and told them to ship it back, I'd pay the postage both ways, suddenly it was too much work, maybe it was true or maybe they just decided to get some cash back.

I'd research ebay for what rules and status you need to maintain but personally, I wouldn't offer any refund, at least not right away. I believe you can have 3 cases opened against you before ebay takes any serious action, and if the buyer opens a case, you can always just offer a refund then without too much harm to yourself really.

I'd also thought that sellers have the right to request ebay to review and retract feedback - I've never done this but it would seem to me if bad feedback was left this would be a good case to bring that up. I know ebay tends to lean to the buyer, at least from much of others experience that i have read, but my experience is they have always been fair. I've never had something get to a case if I have a tracking number that shows delivered. I think you have a good leg to stand on.

One other thing is if you are going to request signature, make sure you call that out in the listing. In my experience, buyers get annoyed about some strange stuff - I don't know the procedure if someone isn't home, but I would personally be pretty annoyed if I had to go sign at the post office, less annoyed if I had to wait an extra day if I had to leave a signature at the door, but still annoyed, especially if I wasn't expecting it.

 

[Jimmy9190]

Thanks again. I want to see what he does on this. I am only speculating but I bet if he does nothing he may be lying. I won't starve to death waiting out this ebay deal. The ball is in his court for now.