Dyno day with my Sportwagen

TiGeo

$50 site donor 2024
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
Messages
7,840
Location
VA
Dyno day fun with the local VW FB group. One of the guys found a dyno in an unsuspecting place a bit out of town but the custom fab/muscle car guys were great – they were impressed with the power the smaller turbo cars put down. We were told that the Dynojet fwd dyno was typically a “heart breaker” and conservative and I’d say based on the other cars there/stated power numbers of those car this is accurate. About 80 degrees or so in the shop and about 550’ msl. We each got 2 runs. Coolest was a '71 Beatle that impressively put down about ~120whp on a built engine and lost some people some money betting. Biggest power I saw was a GTI with custom EQT tune and Vortex standard turbo in with various fueling/bolt-ons - about 380whp complete with big flames. FBO S3 put down 320whp on an EQT stage 2 93 tune (had an issue where it shifted when it wasn't supposed to do this is low) and the R put down 340 on an EQT stage 1 E30 tune with no hardware except an intake. The MK8 GTI with a JB4 piggyback tune did 270whp and 350wtq which shocked everyone – he was having some issues with the traction control/dyno mode/speed limiter. Finally, a big-block 454 ’65 Chevy did it and sounded/smelled amazing!

My IS38 FBO Unitronic GSW running E22? 293/292 which is in-line with the tuners stated crank numbers when you back out drivetrain loss and jives with recent drag racing-derived power figures calc’ing it just shy of 300 in hotter weather. I’ve calc’d anywhere from 290s-340s from ¼ trap speed and weight data in varying temps.

If you ever do this keep in mind these numbers are “what they are” and likely won’t match what the tuner or other folks that have dyno’d have done, it’s dyno-specific and really is there as a tool to show how tunes/mods are impacting the car. The one fellow with a high-powered GTI thought he would be over 400 and was a bit disappointed but he was the highest power car of the day while I was there. If you look at the numbers above relative to one another (which is the only way you can really use them), I’m about ~50 less than an EQT tuned R and ~100 less than the bigger power GTI which is pretty impressive for the 1.8 wagon and is about right/jives with what other similar cars online in terms of relative power numbers.

I logged it during one of the runs and the log looks perfect. No KR. Timing/boost/IAT/lamda/etc. values all where they should be.

If you dyno on a fwd dyno with the Haldex awd cars – do yourself a favor and unplug the Haldex unit. It’s under the backseat, left/driver side…remove the rubber grommet then remove the plastic cover (yank hard!) then remove the plug from it’s bracket and unclip/unplug it. You’ll get a bunch of codes you’ll need to clear. I also ran mine in dyno mode – key on/wait for dash lights to turn off/turn on hazards/push gas pedal 5x (think ‘80s Nintendo cheat codes). An S3 that didn’t do this had the r. wheel chirp at one point so high-pucker moment!

To bring in the oil/BITOG bit - this is with HPL Euro PCMO formula 5W40 that has about 4K miles on it and has honestly been beat the death - ~40 1/4+1/8 mile drag runs in the summer heat, 3x dyno pulls, and a trip to GA with tons of "full send" mountain hooning. Will be a good test of how bad ass HPL oil is!!!

Video of one of my dyno runs on my channel here:


20220723_100103.jpg
20220723_102649.jpg
Capture.JPG

294567691_1588458244905503_5098032023003154949_n.jpg
 
Last edited:
Nice numbers. A shop near me used to hold an annual street car dyno shootout with awards for power based on horsepower per cubic inch displacement with separate boost/nitrous and naturally aspirated classes. I had a 2007 Focus with a GT28RS that made 284/229 at 12 psi and run a best of 12.93 @ 105 mph. I miss that little car. It was a fun daily driver.

31135_1509564579920_2464167_n.jpg


894928_10200860574337497_1167261247_o (1).jpg


 
Last edited:
Nice Focus! I have a MK3/2013 with a tune (Tom's/Focus Power) and it's a lot of fun...son drives it now. ~300 wheel out of 1.8L is great for my wagon. My best 1/4 on the street using Dragy...ideal conditions (cold/sea level) is 12.1 @ 113.4.
 
There was a shop with a Dyno behind the radiator shop. We would always hear some rumbling big block from there. One day I heard what sounded like a sick swarm of bees so I investigated. It was a beat up civic with a turbo where the hood should go.

Thing put out 650hp to the wheels.
 
There was a shop with a Dyno behind the radiator shop. We would always hear some rumbling big block from there. One day I heard what sounded like a sick swarm of bees so I investigated. It was a beat up civic with a turbo where the hood should go.

Thing put out 650hp to the wheels.
Ha! The guys in the shop were talking about just that. They said it could barely move the rollers to start because it needed to be a bazillion RPM to make power with the giant Beijing Booster!
 
From what I recall back when I was more into the scene, the DynoJet was less conservative than the Mustang dynos. I was never on a Mustang dyno personally, just a DynoJet.

We had two pretty popular shops in Toronto:
1. DaSilva Racing, which has a DynoJet. I posted a pic of my buddy's H/C/I Mustang running on that. Unfortunately, the valve springs were getting tired and we had some float, causing it to break-up at the top. This was the one we all used when we came up. Joe is a great guy and a very well known personality in the Mustang scene.

2. Steeda. which has a Mustang dyno. This is the unit a guy I know who worked there, who had a TT Termi, made ~850 to the tires on. Another good guy.

From what I recall, even from the Corral, that was the general consensus, that the Mustang dyno always was a bit low compared to the DynoJet.

Slight tangent:
It was always the engine dyno guys that got cranky with the results. Guy puts together a "potent" street setup with a pair of camel bumps and a single-pattern RV cam from the 70's, tops it with a Edelbrock dual plane and polished carb and when they get it back from the shop it's "400HP" according to their engine dyno sheet. Goes to the track and it's running the same times as a stock fox body. Put it on the rollers and it's like 220HP to the tires, lol.

Local guy is probably the only one I've ever heard of to "hot rod" a car and actually make it slower. He had an, IIRC, '88 Fox GT and put marine heads off a 351W on it and may have even put the marine cam in. Car ran high 15's after that, lol.
 
Realistically, a dyno is a tuning tool. It's no so much about how much power it makes, but how much the power moves with changes in tuning. I saw a heads and cam LT1 Camaro that "ran great" go on the dyno recently and showed 10.6 AFR at WOT. Not sure what his previous tuner was thinking. He opted to have it tuned there and after leaning it out to 12.8-13.0 AFR where it was happy, it picked up +37 hp and +35 tq.

On multiple occasions, I've seen where the dyno didn't reflect the real world. One in particular, the engine liked 13.0 AFR and 36° advance on the dyno. At the dragstrip, however, it ran the best ET closer to 12.5 AFR and 34° advance. Differences in VE% from the hood scoop / ram air, engine acceleration rate, load from aerodynamics on the top end, different ambient weather conditions, etc... all factors that you can't replicate on a dyno.
 
From what I recall back when I was more into the scene, the DynoJet was less conservative than the Mustang dynos. I was never on a Mustang dyno personally, just a DynoJet.

We had two pretty popular shops in Toronto:
1. DaSilva Racing, which has a DynoJet. I posted a pic of my buddy's H/C/I Mustang running on that. Unfortunately, the valve springs were getting tired and we had some float, causing it to break-up at the top. This was the one we all used when we came up. Joe is a great guy and a very well known personality in the Mustang scene.

2. Steeda. which has a Mustang dyno. This is the unit a guy I know who worked there, who had a TT Termi, made ~850 to the tires on. Another good guy.

From what I recall, even from the Corral, that was the general consensus, that the Mustang dyno always was a bit low compared to the DynoJet.

Slight tangent:
It was always the engine dyno guys that got cranky with the results. Guy puts together a "potent" street setup with a pair of camel bumps and a single-pattern RV cam from the 70's, tops it with a Edelbrock dual plane and polished carb and when they get it back from the shop it's "400HP" according to their engine dyno sheet. Goes to the track and it's running the same times as a stock fox body. Put it on the rollers and it's like 220HP to the tires, lol.

Local guy is probably the only one I've ever heard of to "hot rod" a car and actually make it slower. He had an, IIRC, '88 Fox GT and put marine heads off a 351W on it and may have even put the marine cam in. Car ran high 15's after that, lol.
The kids now get so bent up on dyno numbers....I call it "dyno sheet Pokemon"...like they all thrown them down to have a ***-swinging contest. I understand how it works...just a calibration tool and nothing to get worked up about. 1/4 trap and car weight tell you all you need to know.
 
Realistically, a dyno is a tuning tool. It's no so much about how much power it makes, but how much the power moves with changes in tuning. I saw a heads and cam LT1 Camaro that "ran great" go on the dyno recently and showed 10.6 AFR at WOT. Not sure what his previous tuner was thinking. He opted to have it tuned there and after leaning it out to 12.8-13.0 AFR where it was happy, it picked up +37 hp and +35 tq.

On multiple occasions, I've seen where the dyno didn't reflect the real world. One in particular, the engine liked 13.0 AFR and 36° advance on the dyno. At the dragstrip, however, it ran the best ET closer to 12.5 AFR and 34° advance. Differences in VE% from the hood scoop / ram air, engine acceleration rate, load from aerodynamics on the top end, different ambient weather conditions, etc... all factors that you can't replicate on a dyno.
100% but the kids now don't get this - my example you look at all the cars there and compare relative to one another and it's about dead-on, absolute numbers it spits out aren't as meaningful. My car....Unitronic (tuner) says 350/320 roughly....but AT THE CRANK so they calc it to show higher numbers...duh. I'd say for the Haldex awd maybe 15% or so loss to wheel hp and when you do that, it's close. The dyno results I got are v. close to 1/4 trap/car weight calcs I've done that are obviously not corrected so raw/what it made that day/those conditions. I've seen anywhere from 290s to 340s. Fun none the less but yeah, some folks just get all bent up over dyno stuff and it's funny...silly kids!
 
The kids now get so bent up on dyno numbers....I call it "dyno sheet Pokemon"...like they all thrown them down to have a ***-swinging contest. I understand how it works...just a calibration tool and nothing to get worked up about. 1/4 trap and car weight tell you all you need to know.
Always been that way, lol, ever since we started getting easy access to them. They are a great tuning tool, that's how, before my buddy and I co-bought a wideband setup, I discovered that I was running ~10:1 AF and leaving considerable power on the table (car made 270/300 at 10:1). I later leaned it out with a set of 24's and a better MAF setup. According to Joe, I should have picked up around 25HP to the tires. Car cut 106Mph on the limiter in 3rd (I broke the trans on its first pass) so I'd say he was right.
 
Always been that way, lol, ever since we started getting easy access to them. They are a great tuning tool, that's how, before my buddy and I co-bought a wideband setup, I discovered that I was running ~10:1 AF and leaving considerable power on the table (car made 270/300 at 10:1). I later leaned it out with a set of 24's and a better MAF setup. According to Joe, I should have picked up around 25HP to the tires. Car cut 106Mph on the limiter in 3rd (I broke the trans on its first pass) so I'd say he was right.
The issue to some degree with "the kids" is the high-powered fwd cars...they don't want to do 1/4 mile runs b/c of traction issues but they fail to realize that even with traction problems your trap is tpyically your trap/close enough and it would be a better way to see what you are making. I actually have a curve I developed with hp calc vs. DA so at this point if I can predict my power just based on temps. Blue and orange are just different turbos. So yesterday the DA was likely in the 2-3K range and low and behold....power at the wheels in the 290s....it's just math/science..hahahaha

Capture2.JPG
 
The air density has a huge affect on power and performance.

I have a heavy interest in NHRA Pro Stock which are naturally aspirated 500ci engines turning 10,500 rpm with >15:1 compression on Sunoco SR18 fuel in a 2,350 lb tube chassis car. They're racing in Sonoma this weekend with the DA in the 1300-1700 ft range throughout the day yesterday. The #1 qualifier (Erica Enders) ran 6.506 @ 210.97 mph. The #16 qualifier (Fernando Cuadra Jr) ran 6.585 @ 210.24 mph. Just .079 seconds separating #1 and #16.

Now take a look back to last week at Bandimere. That track is 1.1 miles above sea level. The air density was in the 8000-9000 ft range. The engines were down 20-23% on power. The #1 qualifier ran 6.934 @ 196.82 mph and #16 qualifier went 6.996 @ 195.87 mph.

When air density drops, dynamic cylinder pressure drops, and exhaust gas temperatures increase. The headers want to be smaller diameter with longer collectors. The fuel's boiling point is lower affecting how the fuel vaporizes. The lower cylinder pressure means the ideal AFR and spark advance changes. You have to rethink your entire racing program when you go a mile high.

Because of all this, correction factors on a dyno aren't going to be 100% accurate because you ideally wouldn't build or tune the engine the same in different air.
 
interesting for sure + never heard of EQT, duh california! as noted an engine is just an air pump, more air + fueling with other proper adjustments = more go until it goes boom!! drivetrain is a limiting factor as well as $$$$! saying goes how fast do you want to + how much $$$$ you are willing to spend. i was pleasantly surprised of all the goodies available for my new in 2001 jetta 1.8T + of course the torque steering FWD was worse as i increased power, BUT a Quaife cured that + allowed great winter traction in pa with 4 snow tyres during my 200 thou life cycle + to think i almost bought a new 2001 tin can WRX i tested but one test in a solid VW opened my eyes!! the subie prolly would have rusted out while my fully galvanized jetta body was great for 10 years until trading at 200 thou for the 2001 TT 225Q roadster still enjoy!!
 
The air density has a huge affect on power and performance.

I have a heavy interest in NHRA Pro Stock which are naturally aspirated 500ci engines turning 10,500 rpm with >15:1 compression on Sunoco SR18 fuel in a 2,350 lb tube chassis car. They're racing in Sonoma this weekend with the DA in the 1300-1700 ft range throughout the day yesterday. The #1 qualifier (Erica Enders) ran 6.506 @ 210.97 mph. The #16 qualifier (Fernando Cuadra Jr) ran 6.585 @ 210.24 mph. Just .079 seconds separating #1 and #16.

Now take a look back to last week at Bandimere. That track is 1.1 miles above sea level. The air density was in the 8000-9000 ft range. The engines were down 20-23% on power. The #1 qualifier ran 6.934 @ 196.82 mph and #16 qualifier went 6.996 @ 195.87 mph.

When air density drops, dynamic cylinder pressure drops, and exhaust gas temperatures increase. The headers want to be smaller diameter with longer collectors. The fuel's boiling point is lower affecting how the fuel vaporizes. The lower cylinder pressure means the ideal AFR and spark advance changes. You have to rethink your entire racing program when you go a mile high.

Because of all this, correction factors on a dyno aren't going to be 100% accurate because you ideally wouldn't build or tune the engine the same in different air.
At least with forced induction the elevation isn't as much of an issue.
 
Back
Top