Durability Toyota 0w-20 oil

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM


Secondly, Ford does not recommend a heavier oil grade for the Mustang GT even for track use. If the nanny systems are kicking in too frequently, they recommend instead installing the optional factory oil cooler.

You really think that a good example? Ford specs 5w-50 in that very same engine.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM


Secondly, Ford does not recommend a heavier oil grade for the Mustang GT even for track use. If the nanny systems are kicking in too frequently, they recommend instead installing the optional factory oil cooler.

You really think that a good example? Ford specs 5w-50 in that very same engine.

No it's not the very same engine.
The Boss version has more power and is more of a dedicated track car and therefore the oil temp's will be allowed to rise much higher necessitating a heavier oil grade.

The following is the 2012 Mustang GT UOA link not correctly shown above:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/2012-mustang-5-0-9500mi-track-autox-m1-0w20.195647/

 

[hatt]

Track pack GT is not a Boss.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: hatt
Track pack GT is not a Boss.

That further emphasis' my point.
If a heavier oil grade is specified for a track spec'd car higher oil temp's will be allowed.
In the case of the regular GT for which the 5W-20 grade is specified their is no lubrication advantage to running anything heavier and this applies to most modern vehicles.
That said I can see situations where running a heavier grade may be more suitable, or rather the advantages of a light 0W/5W-20 are largely mitigated.
These would include the aforementioned possible reduction in oil consumption during high speed driving or other extreme use.
Operating in a hot climate particularly with few "cold" starts.

 

[hatt]

The thing I see emphasized is that Ford believes at some point 5w-20 is inadequate. And this is an oil enthusiast forum. Not everyone asks "hey guys, what's the least I can get by with?"

 

[Hermann]

Originally Posted By: jeffroski
Thank you so much for all the input. I will go and test the oil at 5k miles and post the results. If they look good and the oil can go longer I will do that, otherwise I will change it at 5k. Peace of mind is what I'm looking for and I have some sound advice to use. BTW I usually do most of my own oil changes, and will be using the TGMO oil or Mobil 1 with the Toyota filter.


If peace of mind is truly what you are looking for, go to the auto parts store and spend $30 for a systhetic oil change special with a decent filter, and change the oil every 5K.

Living where you do, Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w30 would be my choice, it would offer 0W for cold starts, and 30W for your hot climate if that truly worries you. But in reality, if you put in any GF5/SN oil every 5K, your engine will never know the difference.

 

[demarpaint]

Why not run Mobil 1 0W20 and call it a day. The Mobil 1 product is more robust/thicker than the Toyota labeled 0W20 [if that concerns you], is easy to get, and has a great track record here on Bitog.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: hatt
The thing I see emphasized is that Ford believes at some point 5w-20 is inadequate. And this is an oil enthusiast forum. Not everyone asks "hey guys, what's the least I can get by with?"

Again you're missing the point entirely.
There is nothing "inadequate" in the 5W-20 grade and if you're not seeing oil temp's greater than 235F there is zero lubrication benefit in running anything heavier, in fact it will be counter-productive.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
The Mobil 1 product is more robust than the Toyota labeled 0W20,

Maybe, maybe not.
Mobil 1 0W-20 starts out heavier than TGMO but it does tend to shear more so who knows.

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Why not run Mobil 1 0W20 and call it a day. The Mobil 1 product is more robust/thicker than the Toyota labeled 0W20 [if that concerns you], is easy to get, and has a great track record here on Bitog.


Umm...because I don't recall the OP being all that concerned about it (nor should he be). Besides, the Toyota oil seems more shear-stable than Mobil 1 0W20.

All of the hand-wringing is simply the typical BITOG stuff which accompanies any talk of Toyota's 0W20. Also, I actually looked at the 2011 4Runner owner's manual online, just for laughs. I didn't see the "warnings" about the oil not being suitable. There's zero mention of other any other viscosity in the OM that I saw.

I'm not sure what Ford's track cars have to do with the OP's 4runner, but I've driven my own car in some very high temps while monitoring oil temps. Oil temperatures at highway speeds of 70-80mph seem to be pretty low, barely to 90C at the sending unit. This is in 100+ degree ambient temps. His usage pattern seems really easy on oil, and the grade seems suitable. If it were my car I'd probably run it to 7.5K and pull a sample, just to make sure.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
The Mobil 1 product is more robust than the Toyota labeled 0W20,

Maybe, maybe not.
Mobil 1 0W-20 starts out heavier than TGMO but it does tend to shear more so who knows.


Sorry I'm not buying into it. A safer statement is more than likely they both might shear a little. In which case the Mobil 1 offers a bit more of a cushion if things get ugly.

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: hatt
The thing I see emphasized is that Ford believes at some point 5w-20 is inadequate. And this is an oil enthusiast forum. Not everyone asks "hey guys, what's the least I can get by with?"

Again you're missing the point entirely.
There is nothing "inadequate" in the 5W-20 grade and if you're not seeing oil temp's greater than 235F there is zero lubrication benefit in running anything heavier, in fact it will be counter-productive.

So Ford is specing the wrong oil in the TP car? It has an oil cooler and upgraded rad. If the GT doesn't see those temps on the track the TP sure isn't. TP isn't a race car. It's a GT with a couple options, none of which being a more powerful engine.

 

[CATERHAM]

As` far as shear is concerned TGMO 0W-20 is proving to be more shear stable than Mobil 1 0W-20; just review some of the recent used oil analysis of both.
That doesn't mean Mobil 1 is necessarily lighter at high temp's in service, but I wouldn't automatically assume it is heavier either. Only a pack to back comparison in a vehicle equipped with an oil pressure gauge would tell you that.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: hatt
The thing I see emphasized is that Ford believes at some point 5w-20 is inadequate. And this is an oil enthusiast forum. Not everyone asks "hey guys, what's the least I can get by with?"

Again you're missing the point entirely.
There is nothing "inadequate" in the 5W-20 grade and if you're not seeing oil temp's greater than 235F there is zero lubrication benefit in running anything heavier, in fact it will be counter-productive.

So Ford is specing the wrong oil in the TP car? It has an oil cooler and upgraded rad. If the GT doesn't see those temps on the track the TP sure isn't. TP isn't a race car. It's a GT with a couple options, none of which being a more powerful engine.

No what Ford is allowing is more severe usage under extreme conditions where much higher oil temp's may be seen, hence the oil recommendation with the boat load of polymers.
If I had a TP Mustang, warranty notwithstanding, I certainly wouldn't consider using the Motorcraft 5W-50 unless my oil temp's were routinely seeing oil temp's greater than 235F and that's even less likely since the car has an oil cooler.

The objective is to run an oil no heavier than necessary.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
As` far as shear is concerned TGMO 0W-20 is proving to be more shear stable than Mobil 1 0W-20; just review some of the recent used oil analysis of both.
That doesn't mean Mobil 1 is necessarily lighter at high temp's in service, but I wouldn't automatically assume it is heavier either. Only a pack to back comparison in a vehicle equipped with an oil pressure gauge would tell you that.



My research is telling me the Mobil 1 has more of a cushion if things go wrong, and is probably thicker at higher temps than the Toyota oil. Its also cheaper here, easier to get, and IIRC has more automaker approvals.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
As` far as shear is concerned TGMO 0W-20 is proving to be more shear stable than Mobil 1 0W-20; just review some of the recent used oil analysis of both.
That doesn't mean Mobil 1 is necessarily lighter at high temp's in service, but I wouldn't automatically assume it is heavier either. Only a pack to back comparison in a vehicle equipped with an oil pressure gauge would tell you that.


My research is telling me the Mobil 1 has more of a cushion if things go wrong, and is probably thicker at higher temps than the Toyota oil. Its also cheaper here, easier to get, and IIRC has more automaker approvals.

Fair enough, but when it comes to Toyotas no 0W-20 is more suitable than TGMO.

 

[TrevorS]

German cars also have built in neutering.

Does that mean German car owners should choose the heaviest 40 weight oils and avoid GC altogether since it is a 30 weight? Should we ignore the manufacturers and move to 50 or 60 weight since that's what some M series recommend?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: TrevorS
German cars also have built in neutering.

Does that mean German car owners should choose the heaviest 40 weight oils and avoid GC altogether since it is a 30 weight? Should we ignore the manufacturers and move to 50 or 60 weight since that's what some M series recommend?


GC isn't a great example since it is an oil with an HTHS >3.5cP anyway. Most of the Euro marques have traditionally spec'd an oil with this attribute, which is met by heavy 30 and light 40-weight oils.

 

[TrevorS]

It's not that bad an example as 30 weight is not allowed for AMGs.

But in any case, does that mean German car owners should avoid HTHS of say exactly 3.5 because that is the minimum number and AMGs and M series oils have HTHS that are far higher?

The oil with HTHS of exactly 3.5 will shear and go out of spec won't it? Or did the auto manufacturers already think of that and that's part of the cushion?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: TrevorS
It's not that bad an example as 30 weight is not allowed for AMGs.

But in any case, does that mean German car owners should avoid HTHS of say exactly 3.5 because that is the minimum number and AMGs and M series oils have HTHS that are far higher?

The oil with HTHS of exactly 3.5 will shear and go out of spec won't it? Or did the auto manufacturers already think of that and that's part of the cushion?


That depends on the base oils and volume of polymer used. GC isn't known to shear much, if any in application. And AMG and ///M cars are the exception rather than the rule, and even then, with BMW, some of them, like my car, and the current M5 don't spec TWS 10w-60

And of course this then delves into the topic of power density, as an engine with greater BHP/L will heat an oil more when flogged than an engine with lower power density.

From Doug Hillary's discussions on the topic of the Euro marques and their lubricants, this is why they all have their own approvals/certifications. The oils must be tested to meet a given standard, which of course includes things like shear, fuel dilution handling, deposit control.....etc. These extensive testing regimen are employed so that there is no guesswork when choosing a lubricant. If you buy an approved product, you are guaranteed a minimum level (read: adequate, as per the manufacturer's testing) of performance. Which I think is a rather significant improvement over just buying a heavy oil and assuming that it is up to snuff