If it where me I would have dumped it at 500 miles. I think the Havoline with the high moly content is what I would use. Yes I would dump it at 2000.
Dump Factory Fill @ 2K ?
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Seems to me that with a new engine, breakin is in the first 20 or 30 miles if done right, so dump after breakin, then I would probaby dump again after a couple hundred miles.
I'll do one after a couple thousand miles too. I see some peoples oil consumption continue to drop until they have several thousand miles on their car. That means some in-place-final-machining is still going on.
On my latest new car, almost no oil was consumed from the start. So after changing it for the 2nd time at about 2600 I went on a more normal change schedule.
I agree in dumping it after 60 miles or so on any new engine. Except maybe honda. Why is honda so adimit about leaving the factory fill in? Is there any other manufacture out there that makes these same comments of leaving your factory fill in for so long? And the only reason I might trust this is because its honda. Its not like honda does not care about the durability of their vehicles. They have a huge reputation to protect that just makes me listen to their recomendations.
Follow the manual.
I understand your urges - old time machining simply was not as precise and accurate as today's highly repeatable processes. But I highly doubt the OLM will take you to 7500 miles. Short trips daily? I doubt it'll go 5K. How many miles? What percent are you at now?
The supposed high Cu will harm nothing. I have not seen one shred of objective evidence that leaving the factory fill in for full OLM will harm a thing.
Dump at 60 miles? Then at 200 miles? That's just wrong.
I understand your urges - old time machining simply was not as precise and accurate as today's highly repeatable processes. But I highly doubt the OLM will take you to 7500 miles. Short trips daily? I doubt it'll go 5K. How many miles? What percent are you at now?
The supposed high Cu will harm nothing. I have not seen one shred of objective evidence that leaving the factory fill in for full OLM will harm a thing.
Dump at 60 miles? Then at 200 miles? That's just wrong.
We generally assume that the old 3mo/3k OCI is obsolete (under most conditions), yet most people here still want to change their factory oil like it was the good 'ol 3/3 days.
I've found the cure (for me at least): always buy used and keep it as long as possible.
I've found the cure (for me at least): always buy used and keep it as long as possible.
I had the same dilemma, I have an 06 Odyssey and towed 2000lbs in 100F+ heat for 1200 miles with the break in oil still in it. Right after all the towing (at 3600 miles), I did an oil sample and found that the oil was starting to shear. I dumped it and put Chevron Supreme 5W20 (I looked everywhere and couldn't find Havoline 5W20).
Honda is adamant about that factory fill oil, so there must be a good reason they want it in. But if you use an oil that has the same chemistry (Havoline or Chevron) you can cheat and dump the oil and I don't think the engine will notice
. I probably would have kept it in, except the towing caused some pretty high wear numbers and I broke down and sent it to Terry Dyson for analysis. He instructed me to dump the oil, so I did. And now I sleep good at night (well I have a 9 month old daughter, so when I do actually sleep it is good).
I think the short trips will break in your engine faster. My engine had 98% short trips (less than 5 miles), with 2 really long trips towing a ton.
Honda is adamant about that factory fill oil, so there must be a good reason they want it in. But if you use an oil that has the same chemistry (Havoline or Chevron) you can cheat and dump the oil and I don't think the engine will notice
I think the short trips will break in your engine faster. My engine had 98% short trips (less than 5 miles), with 2 really long trips towing a ton.
before someone calls me on it, I am aware that the Chevron oil has about half the moly as Havoline. It was just the best I could do at the time.
DUMP IT!!! Whats the worse that could POSSIBLY happen? The silicon, particulate and other contaminents have a chance to be removed? OoOOOoooohh biggg threat there.
If you're worried about additives from the magical factory fill,
then by all means replace it with the same ol Superflo-- err i mean the same type of magical oil it came from with the factory and dump a moly containing add. in there, although that step is merely for psychological comfort and will have little/NO benefit to the actual break in of your engine. People here should be HAPPY that people want to dump factory fills so early, instead of being th average braindead joe and taking the factory fill to 40K
If you're worried about additives from the magical factory fill,
then by all means replace it with the same ol Superflo-- err i mean the same type of magical oil it came from with the factory and dump a moly containing add. in there, although that step is merely for psychological comfort and will have little/NO benefit to the actual break in of your engine. People here should be HAPPY that people want to dump factory fills so early, instead of being th average braindead joe and taking the factory fill to 40K
I dumped my Honda FF at 2500 for high-moly Havoline 5w-20.
Thanks for all your comments and there does not appear to be a concensus(really ?) as to which direction to go...drain or run it. To answer some questions posted above:
The car has 1734 miles on it now and the OLM shows 80% of the oil life remaining. By my calculations(both shoes off) that should be about 7000(approx) before the OLM prompts me to change oil. Based on your comments, it does seem to be excessive to leave break-in oil (especially dino) in for 7K. Semi-syn maybe...??
The car has 1734 miles on it now and the OLM shows 80% of the oil life remaining. By my calculations(both shoes off) that should be about 7000(approx) before the OLM prompts me to change oil. Based on your comments, it does seem to be excessive to leave break-in oil (especially dino) in for 7K. Semi-syn maybe...??
texprd - you will soon see the OLM is not linear. Seems like past 70%, the meter ticks faster
You came to BITOG for a consensus?!?
Do what you feel comfortable with. I do know that Honda typically doesn't make recommendations without science to back them up.
Now why would Honda want a high moly content oil during break-in? hmmmmmmm
The idea that modern engines have metal shavings and casting flash is a farce.
I guess "old school" beliefs live on.
If we are going to use 35 year old grease monkey wisdom be sure to refill with Castrol 20w-50 or maybe even plan old 30wt monograde while you are at it fellas.
What may have been a valid point 35 years ago is not as valid today.
I guess "old school" beliefs live on.
If we are going to use 35 year old grease monkey wisdom be sure to refill with Castrol 20w-50 or maybe even plan old 30wt monograde while you are at it fellas.
What may have been a valid point 35 years ago is not as valid today.
I've read that some big rigs that do extended drain intervals use 150 ppm of Fe as the upper limit. UOAs of factory fill here that show 20 ppm of Fe are told they have abrasive slurry. Wonder how the big-rigs run for tens-of-thousands of miles on abrasive slurry, yet they can find less than normal wear when the engines are dismantaled.
Just my personal beef, but I cannot believe that any experienced person would have any doubt about this answer. Dump the factory fill. If you have ever seen what comes out of these new engines, you would have no doubt.
I(and lots of BITOG folks) take Terry's opinion very seriouslyquote:
Originally posted by Laminar Lou:
I had the same dilemma, I have an 06 Odyssey and towed 2000lbs in 100F+ heat for 1200 miles with the break in oil still in it. Right after all the towing (at 3600 miles), I did an oil sample and found that the oil was starting to shear. I dumped it and put Chevron Supreme 5W20 (I looked everywhere and couldn't find Havoline 5W20).
Honda is adamant about that factory fill oil, so there must be a good reason they want it in. But if you use an oil that has the same chemistry (Havoline or Chevron) you can cheat and dump the oil and I don't think the engine will notice. I probably would have kept it in, except the towing caused some pretty high wear numbers and I broke down and sent it to Terry Dyson for analysis. He instructed me to dump the oil, so I did. And now I sleep good at night (well I have a 9 month old daughter, so when I do actually sleep it is good).
I think the short trips will break in your engine faster. My engine had 98% short trips (less than 5 miles), with 2 really long trips towing a ton.
This is the wife's 2006 Honda pilot w/ the v-6 IVtec driven short trips daily. In reviewing UOAs it appears this engine throws high levels of copper(oil cooler ?). Owners manual says leave the FF in until the OLM says change, which is approx 7500 miles. Previous posts lead me to believe the factory fill may contain an assembly lube with a high concentration of moly.
Question: Can I accomplish a better result by dumping the factory fill(flushing contaminants)early & running a high moly oil (GC or ?) for the period it takes the engine to shed the copper ? Thanks for your help.
Question: Can I accomplish a better result by dumping the factory fill(flushing contaminants)early & running a high moly oil (GC or ?) for the period it takes the engine to shed the copper ? Thanks for your help.
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