Driven DI40 Specs

[buster]

It is apparently a mPAO oil, 100% if I remember reading somewhere, no esters. Their properity advantage is they figured out a way to add additives into a 100% mPAO. True or not true, but that was the theory on the Rennlist. It's a popular Porsche oil due to it's Moly (Aluminum Cylinder bore scoring), higher ZDDP.

Here was a thread on this forum:

Metallocene PAO (mPAO) verses conventional PAOs (cPAO)

Metallocene PAO (mPAO) verses conventional PAOs (cPAO) By MolaKule Sometimes a White Paper or technical article comes about from a question by one of our astute BITOG members and this is one of those. Note: cPAO's are NOT to be confused with conventional mineral oils. It is simply a way to...

bobistheoilguy.com

I think they use POE. @RDY4WAR may know.

 

[OVERKILL]

It is apparently a mPAO oil, 100% if I remember reading somewhere, no esters. Their properity advantage is they figured out a way to add additives into a 100% mPAO. True or not true, but that was the theory on the Rennlist. It's a popular Porsche oil due to it's Moly (Aluminum Cylinder bore scoring), higher ZDDP.

Here was a thread on this forum:

Metallocene PAO (mPAO) verses conventional PAOs (cPAO)

Metallocene PAO (mPAO) verses conventional PAOs (cPAO) By MolaKule Sometimes a White Paper or technical article comes about from a question by one of our astute BITOG members and this is one of those. Note: cPAO's are NOT to be confused with conventional mineral oils. It is simply a way to...

bobistheoilguy.com

They definitely do not use 100% mPAO, as they are all insanely heavy:

Available in 65, 150 and 300 cSt at 100°C, SpectraSyn Elite mPAO is created using our proprietary metallocene catalyst technology. Particularly well-suited for industrial oils requiring high stability under severe operating conditions, SpectraSyn Elite mPAO can be used with lower-viscosity fluids to create a wide range of industrial and automotive lubricants and greases.

Getting sufficient solubility means adding esters and/or AN's (or lower group bases like Group I or Group II). This is a challenge with all types of PAO, and getting around it has been well understood forever.

 

[OVERKILL]

Here are a couple blackstone used oil analysis I tallyed up in Porsche 997 (Various) (Not my car). Users noticed significant decrease in wear when switching from Mobil 1.

View attachment 200759

Not to nitpick, but you can't infer actual wear from the PPM figures on UOA's. The range of particles sampled is too narrow and there is no way to separate chemical processes (corrosion, chelation) from physical.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

It is apparently a mPAO oil, 100% if I remember reading somewhere, no esters. Their properity advantage is they figured out a way to add additives into a 100% mPAO. True or not true, but that was the theory on the Rennlist. It's a popular Porsche oil due to it's Moly (Aluminum Cylinder bore scoring), higher ZDDP.

Here was a thread on this forum:

Metallocene PAO (mPAO) verses conventional PAOs (cPAO)

Metallocene PAO (mPAO) verses conventional PAOs (cPAO) By MolaKule Sometimes a White Paper or technical article comes about from a question by one of our astute BITOG members and this is one of those. Note: cPAO's are NOT to be confused with conventional mineral oils. It is simply a way to...

bobistheoilguy.com

Thanks for the link… but that raises even more questions. The mPAOs in MolaKule’s article are very high viscosity (>65cSt), which if replacing VII, should bring Noack down, not leave it high… from what I understand. I won’t make any more guesses for now, but i would pick something else if it were my money.

 

[Indyxc]

Not to nitpick, but you can't infer actual wear from the PPM figures on UOA's. The range of particles sampled is too narrow and there is no way to separate chemical processes (corrosion, chelation) from physical.

Really, why do you say that? On Rennlist oil sample list a couple folks had 3-4 oil change analysis on vehicles using Oil X (Usually Mobil 1). They then changed to Driven DT40 or DI40, and posted a couple results. Notable reduction in wear elements, notable iron, copper. These are vehicles well past break im (40k miles +). If wear results don't mean much, what else is there. Honestly curious?

Here is the thread. DT40 developed a bit of a cult following there, then DI40.

Another oil analysis - Rennlist - Porsche Discussion Forums

997 Forum - Another oil analysis - I'd love to hear comments. Flame away!!!

rennlist.com

 

[Indyxc]

Thanks for the link… but that raises even more questions. The mPAOs in MolaKule’s article are very high viscosity (>65cSt), which if replacing VII, should bring Noack down, not leave it high… from what I understand. I won’t make any more guesses for now, but i would pick something else if it were my money.

What would you recomend in the 5W-40 Euro compability zone?

 

[chris719]

Thanks for the link… but that raises even more questions. The mPAOs in MolaKule’s article are very high viscosity (>65cSt), which if replacing VII, should bring Noack down, not leave it high… from what I understand. I won’t make any more guesses for now, but i would pick something else if it were my money.

I don't think they use a lot of VII. Not that it is 100% correlated but the HTHS of their oils are all high for their respective KV100. When you plug the numbers into Gokhan's old spreadsheet they come out at or above most Redline, HPL, etc products. Of course, who knows what that really means especially given the assumptions made, but I would guess they are pretty good and without a ton of VII.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

What would you recomend in the 5W-40 Euro compability zone?

I’m not really in the 5w40 Euro zone. I’ve got Pennzoil Euro 0w40 for my Subaru, and I run No VII 5w20 and 5w30 in my 2 Fords. Before it disappeared, I had some Castrol 0w40 A3/B4 that I ran in the Subie, and I do run a PAO 5w40 CK-4 cold climate in my generator… but as far as cars go I don’t really use 5w40.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

I don't think they use a lot of VII. Not that it is 100% correlated but the HTHS of their oils are all high for their respective KV100. When you plug the numbers into Gokhan's old spreadsheet they come out at or above most Redline, HPL, etc products. Of course, who knows what that really means especially given the assumptions made, but I would guess they are pretty good and without a ton of VII.

Well, in contrast, we do have some known zero VII oils… if those are plugged into the spreadsheet, where do they land relative to the Driven oils?

 

[chris719]

Well, in contrast, we do have some known zero VII oils… if those are plugged into the spreadsheet, where do they land relative to the Driven oils?

I'd have to go dig it up again but it was lower for at least one of them, DI40 or DT40, but I don't think the spreadsheet is entirely accurate. It comes up with a non-zero VII% for HPL No VII. Either way, it was broadly in the pack with Redline 5W-30, HPL No VII 5W-30, Ravenol VMP, new Motul 300V, etc.

 

[OVERKILL]

Really, why do you say that? On Rennlist oil sample list a couple folks had 3-4 oil change analysis on vehicles using Oil X (Usually Mobil 1). They then changed to Driven DT40 or DI40, and posted a couple results. Notable reduction in wear elements, notable iron, copper.

Different oils have different "signatures". The purpose of Used Oil Analysis is to trend data (typically with the same lubricant) so that you can pick-up anomalies, such as a rapid uptake in a certain metal that might point to a component going sideways, signs of an air intake tract leak (silicon increasing), coolant ingress (sodium) and the continued serviceability of the lubricant (iron is below the condemnation point, as it tracks with miles/hours, TBN and TAN still look decent, fuel isn't insane...etc).

Copper for example is easily chelated by polar base oils like esters, which shows up in UOA's as higher levels of copper.

Rapid, excessive wear is often not adequately picked-up or even picked-up at all by UOA because the particles generated are too large to be "seen" by spectrography.

The tool was never designed for, and lacks the resolution, to allow a user to determine which oil is "better" than another based on ppm variances in metals as observed in this manner.

There's a good article on the front page of this site by Doug Hillary, that goes into this:
Used Oil Analysis - Bob is the Oil Guy

 

[loneryder]

I’m guessing this is a racing oil because of the low amount of cleaners and low tbn.

 

[Indyxc]

Different oils have different "signatures". The purpose of Used Oil Analysis is to trend data (typically with the same lubricant) so that you can pick-up anomalies, such as a rapid uptake in a certain metal that might point to a component going sideways, signs of an air intake tract leak (silicon increasing), coolant ingress (sodium) and the continued serviceability of the lubricant (iron is below the condemnation point, as it tracks with miles/hours, TBN and TAN still look decent, fuel isn't insane...etc).

Copper for example is easily chelated by polar base oils like esters, which shows up in UOA's as higher levels of copper.

Rapid, excessive wear is often not adequately picked-up or even picked-up at all by UOA because the particles generated are too large to be "seen" by spectrography.

The tool was never designed for, and lacks the resolution, to allow a user to determine which oil is "better" than another based on ppm variances in metals as observed in this manner.

There's a good article on the front page of this site by Doug Hillary, that goes into this:
Used Oil Analysis - Bob is the Oil Guy

This is actually a very good explanation and makes sense. Thanks for this.

 

[Indyxc]

I'd have to go dig it up again but it was lower for at least one of them, DI40 or DT40, but I don't think the spreadsheet is entirely accurate. It comes up with a non-zero VII% for HPL No VII. Either way, it was broadly in the pack with Redline 5W-30, HPL No VII 5W-30, Ravenol VMP, new Motul 300V, etc.

What does this mean in oil layman's terms?

 

[chris719]

What does this mean in oil layman's terms?

It means all of those oils should have low amounts of polymer VM (VII) additives, which can experience temporary and permanent shear under certain conditions. They should hold their viscosity better.

 

[Vitamin Yoda]

Here are a couple blackstone used oil analysis I tallyed up in Porsche 997 (Various) (Not my car). Users noticed significant decrease in wear when switching from Mobil 1.

View attachment 200759

That's because the additive package in DI40 is focused on minimizing wear. It's not meant for long drain intervals. Look at the high amount of ZDDP. The high Moly is there to ensure that the detergent doesn't interfere with ZDDP in the tribo-film. Basically this oil provides a thick later of ZDDP tribo-film. That's what it's designed to do. It's what you're supposed to run during track days, etc.

 

[mitsuman47]

That's because the additive package in DI40 is focused on minimizing wear. It's not meant for long drain intervals. Look at the high amount of ZDDP. The high Moly is there to ensure that the detergent doesn't interfere with ZDDP in the tribo-film. Basically this oil provides a thick later of ZDDP tribo-film. That's what it's designed to do. It's what you're supposed to run during track days, etc.

Any downsides to running this for 3-4k mile OCI when not doing track days?

 

[Vitamin Yoda]

Any downsides to running this for 3-4k mile OCI when not doing track days?

No downside, other that probably being a waste of money for a daily driver. HPL has BAS engine oil, which is for meant for racing. The amazing thing about BAS is that it holds up amazingly well in a daily driver. I've seen an UOA posted by @RDY4WAR with BAS running for over 10K miles, with plenty of TBN left.

 

[OVERKILL]

This is actually a very good explanation and makes sense. Thanks for this.

You are quite welcome!

 

[Indyxc]

I am going to give this oil a go for my next oil change since it's sold on FCP euro. Direct engine, high reving engine, with low mileage oil change intervals, probably every 1000-1500 miles at most. An engine that is hard on oil, shears it, and tends to have high iron wear. We shall see!

What HPL oil is comparable? I like high moly and ZDDP.