Down with extending your drain intervals!!!

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AJ, If you take into account the cost of labor for non-DIY and the un-convenience and time of driving to a shop to do an oil change, using synthetic oil with double or near double the OCI makes a lot of sense for many drivers.

If you enjoy the work and like to tinker with your machines, then dino at half the OCI makes a lot of sense to you.
 
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Would you rather dino at 5-6k or synth at 10-12k?


I'm even more conservative. I would rather run synth at 5k (the new 3k), which usually infuriates the 7-12k crowd.
 
After asking on here, I have decided to run 6,500 miles on this fill of PP, and I will do it without the slightest bit of worry... I think that engines generally will outlast the rest of the car.
 
I longest I would ever go is 8k miles.. and that's in none of my personal cars, maybe in client's cars if they wanna extend their OCI.

I am kind of with the OP in this one, all the subarus in my family that have over 300k miles have been running on synthetic with 5k mile OCIs, and guess what.. they have PERFECT compression and perfect vacuum, with extended OCIs you might have a car that still runs fine and will keep going, but not stay practically like new like these cars..
 
Originally Posted By: Curtis Newton
Until you have run your Lumina during the same conditions with 5-6K oil changes, it is really hard to see the merits of your argument.

You keep your car really clean and it runs well; that is good. However, you could keep your car really clean with 5K intervals, your car could be running just as good and an added benefit that you have saved on importing oil. I'm just sayin' ....
Gasoline it the biggie ,the motor used is a drop in the bucket. The used oil is recyled the gasoline is used up.
 
Originally Posted By: Mark72
Maybe, just maybe the oil manufacturers know more about oil longevity than us consumers.
...and it's my opinion that shorter OCI's ensure that which we really don't know about and remove any possible question marks from the scenario. Many of you who talk about extending your drains to save money make it sound like you have to replenish your oil as often as your gasoline. This is one reason I'm so sick of the synthetic hype particularly for those who live in climates that don't warrent it.

You forgot car manufacturers who specify longer drain intervals as well.

Take my 2003 Buick Centry. It has the 3.1L, which is likely what your Lumina has. The car is also equipped with GMs Oil Life Monitor. The algorithm for the OLM is based on a countdown from a set # of revolutions of the engine. Penalty factors are added to the revolutions ticking off based on oil/coolant temp (i.e. # of cold starts), engine speed etc. The book says follow the OLM. If you forget to reset it then change the oil at 3,000mi. The book also includes the statement that "under ideal conditions, the OLM may not trip for over a year" and that "in these cases you should change your oil once every 12 months".

Now I commute 750+ miles per week. The last time the OLM didn't go off until 9,000mi. GM has a very good understanding of just how much "abusing" of the oil the engine does and so long as I'm not leaking coolant from a leaky upper/lower intake manifold gasket going by the OLM is fine. Now would I trust a non-synthetic to go 9000mi? No, not really even though that is what the OLM is based on. So instead I put in the cheapest synthetic (PP or QS) a good filter (Wix) and run it till the light trips.

Note: I don't meet your climate specification (except in the dead of winter) nor am I racing the car at the track. However, if I followed your 3,000mi recommendation I'd be changing my oil every 4-5 weeks. Using a syn and running it out to the 8,500 to 9,000+ based on the OLM lets me get by with 9+ weeks between oil changes.

Then lets examine cars like my wifes 06 Golf. VW has a set of specs oil must meet based on how hard the engine is on the oil. Those specs will allow the oil to go 12 months of 10k mi. Now in reality I change it twice yearly (April and October) since my wife never puts on more then 10k mi in a year and she does mostly in town driving. Is that too an extended drain?

Neither car "consumes" oil. The Buick uses 1/4qt every 5000mi and the VW about 1/8qt between its twice yearly oil changes. The Buick is setting at 105,000mi and the VW at 22,000.
 
Originally Posted By: Bruce T
Yes, shorter OCIs have less wear, but is it significant?


The real question is not if wear is significant, but rather if it is linear. In my car, 6,000 mile OCI's have more wear than 3,000 mile OCI's per UOA, but the difference is almost perfectly linear. Which tells me a 6,000 mile OCI is as good as 2x 3,000 mile OCI's. So now I keep it in there for 6000 miles.
 
Mark72 is right.
Mark72 is wrong.

Actually, it's a bit of both.

Equipment longevity comes from proper maintenance plans, not some hyper-sensitive selection of lubricant.

There are two means to the same end. If you want your equipment to last (engine, trany, diffs, xfer case, gearbox, etc) then you must develop and follow a good maintenance plan.

There are plenty of living examples of vehicles with high mileage by using synthetic fluids, bypass filtration, and extended OCIs. These vehicles are very reliable and can last, conceivably, forever.
(warning - these are "testimonials" and not hard data, but the point is that you can read about many customers that do extended OCIs with this product line, although those experiences are NOT UNIQUE to this product line).
http://www.fs2500filter.com/testimonials.htm


The same can be said for vehicles that OCI often. Here are two examples:
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/02/01/wisconsin-mans-91-silverado-set-to-hit-1-million-miles/
http://www.knfilters.com/news/news.aspx?ID=157

What everyone seems to get caught up in, is that they think there is only one solution to longevity. UNTRUE! You have two choices.
1) frequent OCIs (typically done with decent, but low cost, fluids)
2) extended OCIs (typically done with high-end, expensive, synthetics and/or often bypass filtration)

Extended OCIs are NOT about making equipment last longer. Extended OCIs are about making the FLUID last longer. Extended OCIs (and the products that get them there) are fiscal savings tools for situations where large/long annual driving patterns can reap the benefit of fewer oil changes with less purchased products, services and downtime.

Since a great many of us don't drive enough to warrant extended OCIs as a savings tool, we can do just fine by using short OCIs.

The bottom line is that equipment longevity comes from clean lubricants. Clean lubricants are a function of your maintenance plan. You maintenance plan should be based upon a multitude of things including:
annual mileage
tolerance for maintenance downtime
availability of products/services
environmental concerns and conditions
operating concerns and conditions
cost of products and services
etc

1) you can flush out the contaminants with frequent OCIs
2) you can filter out the contaminants for longer OCIs
Two roads to the same destination. The only difference is the cost of getting there, and that is UNIQUE to each individual situation. There is no "best" maintenance plan for every person or situation, any more than there is a "best" oil, "best" oil filter, "best" toothbrush, "best" kitchen knife, etc.

Nearly all people get product selection backwards. They buy a product based upon rhetoric, hype, hearsay, marketing, mythology, etc, and then try to cram it into their operating/maintenace plan. The REAL way to gain success is to analyze your use, and then select a program and plan that fits your own individual needs. Pair up your products with your maintenance program, and you'll have success.

Thus endeth the lesson.
 
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Originally Posted By: Bruce T
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Would you rather dino at 5-6k or synth at 10-12k?


I'm even more conservative. I would rather run synth at 5k (the new 3k), which usually infuriates the 7-12k crowd.


I'm boiling over about it ..RIGHT NOW!!!
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An interesting assertion, but you left many questions:

How many miles does your Lumina have on it??
How long are you going to keep it?

Now my 1994 Lumina APV severe service Tow vehicle has reached 300K miles, using 20K OCI's (Mobil 1 0W20,I have published the details many times) and, like your car, dealers, mechanics often remark about how nicely it runs, burns no oil, etc. The 3.1 litre engine is certainly challenged with 5,000 lbs on behind it 4 days a week, and often tows 700 miles on the hottest weekends of summer.

Sadly, I am ending the experiment.... A new Sienna is taking over the tow duties... and the Lumina has been relegated to delivering a college student to and from class.
Tell me again why I should have changed oil 4 times more often??

How far past 300,000 k miles do you intend to drive your car?
I see no reason why our APV will not easily run another 100k miles without motor repairs..... except at these miles non-lubrication failures may begin to occur, head gaskets, valve burning, etc.
 
Now my 1994 Lumina APV severe service Tow vehicle has reached 300K miles, using 20K OCI's (Mobil 1 0W20,I have published the details many times) and, like your car, dealers, mechanics often remark about how nicely it runs, burns no oil, etc. The 3.1 litre engine is certainly challenged with 5,000 lbs on behind it 4 days a week, and often tows 700 miles on the hottest weekends of summer.

Sadly, I am ending the experiment.... A new Sienna is taking over the tow duties... and the Lumina has been relegated to delivering a college student to and from class.
Tell me again why I should have changed oil 4 times more often??


These seem odd vehicle choices for regularly towing 5,000 lb. loads.
 
The Lumina I'm speaking of has 152k on it. I know some of my references to hanging on the cross were sort of "out there", so I hope I offended no one. Just being a goof more than anything.
I change my oil in it every 4 months, no matter how many miles on the oil. sometimes I'll have 3-4k on it, and sometimes I'll have only 2k on the oil.
 
Odd, in what way???

They are durable
They get good mileage when towing
they get good mileage when not towing
they can bring 8 performers to a waterski show
they have the space and privacy glass for costume changes
They are very stable when towing, perhaps due to a lower center of gravity then the pickups I used to use.
Both the Suburban and the F-150 we have towed with are scarily tail-waggy at speed, the minivans are not.
Perhaps 3 motors behind the trailer axle are a challenge for tall tippy-teetery pickups

I have pictures of both, when towing.

Let me make note the boat I am towing is very low profile, catches very little wind and tows easily. It is heavy only because it has 3 150 hp Evinrudes on the back, and 500 lbs of lead in the nose. And, yes, the 266 hp Sienna gets to speed much faster than the 120 hp Lumina APV does.... but even it gets there as fast as a semi does!

Pictures of the waterski show are at www.5sst.com - a 30 person pyramid. If you look at the tournament pictues, you will find the boat pictures also!!!

And, if I knew how to post pictures on here I would post the
tow vehicle pictures, while towing.
 
I don't intend to rain on anyone's parade, and if this is working for you, that's great. In the case of the Lumina, and this is without checking, you are almost certainly towing stuff beyond the manufacturers recommended limit.

You're in better shape with the Sienna, but still you are using an FWD vehicle. If I were in your shoes, I'd be looking for an SUV or PU.
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
AJ, If you take into account the cost of labor for non-DIY and the un-convenience and time of driving to a shop to do an oil change, using synthetic oil with double or near double the OCI makes a lot of sense for many drivers.

If you enjoy the work and like to tinker with your machines, then dino at half the OCI makes a lot of sense to you.



Yes, well, exactly.

I also don't consider the extra cost of twice the filters, but disregard because re-used filters are no problem. I have a big box of Honda filters and will reuse my nice Fram TG after an only 3k run. Miles is miles.

Extended drains are fine for cars that are difficult-to-service, for whatever reason.
 
Quoting Dnewton3: The bottom line is that equipment longevity comes from clean lubricants. Clean lubricants are a function of your maintenance plan. You maintenance plan should be based upon a multitude of things including:
annual mileage
tolerance for maintenance downtime
availability of products/services
environmental concerns and conditions
operating concerns and conditions
cost of products and services
etc
***************************************************************************************

I think there is a big difference between clean oil and oil that still has life left in it. I don't care if the oil has 4-5k on it but is still good for another 4-5k. If that oil is dirty, then as Dnewton3 stated about equipment longevity stemming from clean lubricants, then I say it's nonsense to keep driving on it. I don't know, I think I'm going to have to go to the wall with this opinion like the Dems in Chicago D.C. even though I might be wrong.
 
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I run synthetic to 5000 miles(which is what owners manual says to change oil) or 6-months whatever comes first.

The reason I run synthetic is because it gets [censored] cold here during the winter months,so IMO,I get my $$$ worth.
 
It's your right to be "down with" something that works.

I've been doing extended changes on all my cars, and 4 stroke equipment engines for over 10 years. All engines are very clean, including my turbo Volvo with spotless engine (and no oil consumption!) at 285K miles. I don't extend my OCI's by guessing or for sport. I do it logically and for a reason. The logic is along the lines of newton's fine post, the reason's are the lack of time and the absolute stupidity of changing lubricants mid January on my frozen wet back.
 
Originally Posted By: DragRace
I run synthetic to 5000 miles(which is what owners manual says to change oil) or 6-months whatever comes first.

The reason I run synthetic is because it gets [censored] cold here during the winter months,so IMO,I get my $$$ worth.


My best friend does the same exact thing you do...temperatures are much mileder here so oil should last longer... So? Ok..the oil lasted six months, but wholy Cr@ck Pipe!!! that stuff comes out of his engine as black as coal when he drains it. No thanks
 
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